The State of Triangle (NC) Dining and Food

[nhconner]

I am not sure why I feel that way. I think Greensboro is a little less hospitable than the RDU area food wise. I guess I feel the reasonable Bistro would not be done right and if it was would be priced to high, and I still hear anti French sentiment to boot. Like many, I long for the place that has $8-12 mains, that are simple, fresh and correct. There are good steak frites here at a Bistro Sophia, but its a sirloin and its $22.

The mains here are $15-27 making it more of a once in a while spot to dine. Dont get me wrong I really like Bistro Sophia and think what they are doing is great. In fact they are one of the best spots in GSO, but they are not a Bistro with a no frills hanger steak and fries or a great selection of cold apps for $3-5 each. This format also requires a relatively low overhead and brisk volume to succeed.

The hard part is the low priced, simple, good spot that pleases a foodie is very difficult to pull of. It takes a special kind of person and passion to do this and they just dont grow on trees. Most who could pull it of go to work somewhere else. The wind is shifting, but slowly.

As far as the great Japanese goes, I would love a Soto (Atlanta) or a Mikotos(DC) or even a great fusion, Morimotos (Philly), but I just dont see it in the cards. Its got to cost and it got to be full all the time. Now we could work on some great Sushi though. The stuff here is good, but marred by inconsistency. Ive had it all multiple times and no one gets it right every time, as shame as its still not cheap.

Nate

[BryanZ]

I am not sure why I feel that way.  I think Greensboro is a little less hospitable than the RDU area food wise.  I guess I feel the reasonable Bistro would not be done right and if it was would be priced to high, and I still hear anti French sentiment to boot.  Like many, I long for the place that has $8-12 mains, that are simple, fresh and correct.  There are good steak frites here at a Bistro Sophia, but its a sirloin and its $22. 

The mains here are $15-27 making it more of a once in a while spot to dine.  Dont get me wrong I really like Bistro Sophia and think what they are doing is great. In fact they are one of the best spots in GSO, but they are not a Bistro with a no frills hanger steak and fries or a great selection of cold apps for $3-5 each.  This format also requires a relatively low overhead and brisk volume to succeed.

The hard part is the low priced, simple, good spot that pleases a foodie is very difficult to pull of.  It takes a special kind of person and passion to do this and they just dont grow on trees.  Most who could pull it of go to work somewhere else.  The wind is shifting, but slowly. 

As far as the great Japanese goes, I would love a Soto (Atlanta) or a Mikotos(DC) or even a great fusion, Morimotos (Philly), but I just dont see it in the cards.  Its got to cost and it got to be full all the time. Now we could work on some great Sushi though.  The stuff here is good, but marred by inconsistency.  Ive had it all multiple times and no one gets it right every time, as shame as its still not cheap.

Nate

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I think asking for good dinner options at $8-12 is asking for an awful lot. I can spend 10 dollars at a pizzeria on a couple "gourmet" slices and a drink. I'm not saying that places like this don't exist but the growth of restaurants in this area likely won't start at that price point. It will likely come from a slightly higher and more upscale angle.

I've done some thinking on the Japanese restaurant angle, as it is the ethnic food I know best, and have mixed feelings. While I feel a Japanese "bistro" offering traditional Japanese offerings would be perfect for the area, I'm not sure it would have the necessary glam to attract large numbers of people in an area where the population is relatively spread out. I also think a cutting-edge Japanese fusion restaurant would be a welcome addition to the upscale dining scene, but I do not think the Triangle would be able to support a restaurant w/ $70+ omakase offerings that requires rapid turnaround in order to keep all the ingredients at the peak of freshness. The bastardized Japanese steakhouse concept and mediocre sushi bar seem to be what works for this area, and, unfortunately, I cannot think of a more cost-effective Japanese-style restaurant to take their place.

As far as Detlechef's comments, it seems that the best restaurants in the area are being run by professional and passionate individuals. It seems like there aren't enough of these individuals around, however. The demand is clearly there, it just will take the opening of more and more solid restaurants to weed out some of the crap out there.

[joiei]

price wise for a bistro type menu, the $8-12 range would possibly fit into a luncheon menu, but not dinner. The $15-27 is more the norm most anywhere. That is what I find where ever I travel.

These prices are even being seen in the chain dinner houses. To get a lower price on your dining, ordering from the appetizers would work. Plus, most appetizers are now the size of what an entree should be.

Remember that most of those chef owned bistros, they are trying to make a living like everyone else and work hard for the money that they do make.

[stephenc]

Back in when I was in college, my buddies and I would do this thing every week where we would walk (or drive out), usually starting from East Campus.

We'd then go to whatever restaurant we came to first, that none of us ever ate at.

Fun stuff, and in exploring in this way, we found a couple neat little places. There's a Jamaican Jerk place in Downtown, Durham, just outside the downtown loop. Forget what it's called or where it's located. We came upon Shrimp Boats and got the best fried chicken we've ever tasted. Imagine that, fried chicken from a place called Shrimp Boats.

If you're talking about fine dining, I don't know much about it. I remember Magnolia and Four Square being good back when I was there. I remember going to Nana's a couple times back in the day, but only because I was friends with the bartender.

The food I remember most from my 4 years there.... Shrimp n grits at that place in Chapel Hell, and the chicken philly made by Jihad at ID on 9th street.

The chicken Philly was nothing close to a chicken philly. But it was the best middle-eastern spiced chicken hoagie I've ever tasted. And the dude was a total ketchup-nazi too. I also like the tabbouleh.

You guys should feel lucky.

The triangle has weekend breakfast/brunch places that are ten times better than what we have up here in Philly.

Edited April 27, 2005 by stephenc (log)

[iris]

The chicken Philly was nothing close to a chicken philly.  But it was the best middle-eastern spiced chicken hoagie I've ever tasted.  And the dude was a total ketchup-nazi too.  I also like the tabbouleh.

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A couple of weeks ago, the owner of International Delights posted a hand-scrawled sign on the menu that reads: "Any customer can have ketchup on his food. I don't care anymore!" --signed The Owner

A sad sight. Even the ketchup nazi has given in. Maybe that little sign has something to say about the state of food in the Triangle. Maybe chefs just need to feel supported in taking stands against ketchup or other boring food. Maybe folks like the people here need to speak up when they taste something really inspiring--write a note to the chef, send friends--otherwise the folks who demand ketchup for their falafel and food that tastes like what they get at their favorite chain will have the louder voice. Go to the farmer's markets, support local restaurants, and buy the anti-ketchup t-shirts from ID before they're not available anymore. Celebrate what we do have, which is a much better way to build up the scene than complaining about what's missing.

[challah-baker]

Not to change the topic too much, but has anyone eaten at Pao Lim lately? I went a few times after it first opened and liked it. But, I went back yesterday and was really shocked. The food was awful to the point of being inedible. The hot and sour soup tasted like something LaChoy would put in a can. The Tofu in Hot Bean sauce, to quote Sam Sifton, came in a sauce that could only be described as yucky. The tofu had a bizarre texture and tasted slightly sour. Even the spareribs were disappointing. Any ideas on what gives? They had so much promise. Did they change chefs?

[stephenc]

A couple of weeks ago, the owner of International Delights posted a hand-scrawled sign on the menu that reads: "Any customer can have ketchup on his food. I don't care anymore!" --signed The Owner

What a sellout.

[detlefchef]

A couple of weeks ago, the owner of International Delights posted a hand-scrawled sign on the menu that reads: "Any customer can have ketchup on his food. I don't care anymore!" --signed The Owner

A sad sight. Even the ketchup nazi has given in. Maybe that little sign has something to say about the state of food in the Triangle. Maybe chefs just need to feel supported in taking stands against ketchup or other boring food. Maybe folks like the people here need to speak up when they taste something really inspiring--write a note to the chef, send friends--otherwise the folks who demand ketchup for their falafel and food that tastes like what they get at their favorite chain will have the louder voice. Go to the farmer's markets, support local restaurants, and buy the anti-ketchup t-shirts from ID before they're not available anymore. Celebrate what we do have, which is a much better way to build up the scene than complaining about what's missing.

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Here's another way of looking at it, Ketchup tastes good on fries and people want it. Dude runs a fast food restaurant and serves fries, he needs to get over himself. Frankly, I stopped going to ID some time ago because I felt the food was OK but not all that and I was sick of the attitude. The food at Neomonde is twice as good and everyone there is absolutely friendly. Always offering you a taste of something you may not be familiar with, never snarling at you at saying everything is "the best". You know what, it's not the freaking best. I have yet to try the fabled chicken philly, but every classic middle eastern dish I've had there was nowhere near the best version I've had, even at other take out joints.

[wcmckinney]

Too bad 'bout Pao Lim, thems was good eats

[JennyUptown]

Hello from DC,

Do any of these spots have web sites?

Fins

Nana's

Four Square

Bloomsbury Grill

The Cosmopolitan

Enoteca Vin

Il Palio

I'm helping a colleague gather info in order to buy a gift certificate for a contact there. Sent him to the sites of Fearrington House and Elaine's already.

Thanks!

[Varmint]

Let's see:

Nana's: http://www.nanasdurham.com/

Four Square: http://www.foursquarerestaurant.com/

The Cosmopolitan: http://www.carycosmo.com/

Bloomsbury: http://www.bloomsburybistro.com/

Il Palio: http://www.sienahotel.com/il_palio_restaurant.htm

Enoteca Vin: http://www.enotecavin.com/

From what I can tell, Fins does not have a web presence. I'll ask them about it tomorrow.

[ChefSwartz]

From what I can tell, Fins does not have a web presence.  I'll ask them about it tomorrow.

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id love to hear what you had, and how it was.

[BryanZ]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, and I hope that discussion continues throughout the summer. In two days, I will be returning home where meals at Babbo, Per Se, Jean Georges, WD-50, and many others await me; therefore, I'm not sure how much more I will be able to add to this discussion this summer. I will try to chip in when I can, however, and will be back in the fall, ready to continue eating and commenting my way through the Triangle.