Handling the chronically tardy guest ...

[winesonoma]

I had a friend who was always late and then one day he left the keys to his life in my car (serious big ring of keys). I called him and said where do you want to meet and when to get your keys? It took him ten weeks to realize I would not wait longer than 5 min for him and he set the time and place. The joy of that day when I showed up and he was waiting. Almost made me want to leave, but he got the point.

[racheld]

Several years ago, I catered a dinner party for a group which had reserved a hall, with kitchen; everything else was to be delivered, cooked, and served by my staff. We arrived the agreed-upon three hours-before-cocktail-hour, set up everything, got the hors d's in place for a nice tableau to greet the arriving guests on the stroke of the hour. Staff was sharp, immaculate, ready to serve.

Nobody arrived. Not for thirty minutes, then an hour, then the HOSTS drove up exactly an hour and forty minutes past the time we were supposed to start serving. We had spent that time looking out of windows, trying the phone number I had been given, checking our watches, and watching the shrimp mousse for signs of wiltage. I had put the trays into the freezer from time to time, just for safety's sake.

THEN it was another fifteen minutes before the next couple, and folks started drifting in. FINALLY, after totally replacing ice, fruit, etc., we began serving the cocktail hour at a time far past that agreed upon for dinner seating. Fortunately, my husband had waited to put the tenderloins onto the outdoor grills until cocktails were being served, but the whole evening seemed one step behind.

The guests thoroughly enjoyed themselves, ate a leisurely dinner and embarked on dessert more than three hours late. Dancing was beginning at midnight, as we finished clearing the dinner tables.

I checked back onto our contract to see if I had signed on with the local chapter of Procrastinators, Inc. How all these chronically late people gravitated toward each other is a mystery past my solving. The host's explanation: "You just have to KNOW these people."

[halloweencat]

I had a friend who was always late and then one day he left the keys to his life in my car (serious big ring of keys). I called him and said where do you want to meet and when to get your keys? It took him ten weeks to realize I would not wait longer than 5 min for him and he set the time and place. The joy of that day when I showed up and he was waiting. Almost made me want to leave, but he got the point.      

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this made me laugh out loud...but i also think it was inspired. some folks who are excessively late all the time might place a different value on time...

for example, one could decide to keep that person waiting for an hour (to balance the time she/he kept you waiting). that might work, as it did for someone upthread.

but i also know of members of the habitually really tardy club (HRTC) on whom this technique has been tried and proven to be ineffective. why? well, they're happy to shoot the breeze with strangers while they wait, or read or whatever. it doesn't bother them that much (which is why they probably have a harder time empathizing with others, when the situation is reversed).

i do think that winesonoma's example... extreme need + extreme no wait.. might be the best technique i've yet heard of to combat this.

cheers :)

hc

[Grub]

As they say -- if you're important enough, people will wait for you... From an anthropological point of view, being perpetually late is simply an establishment of a social pecking order (even if it is done in a vaguely subconscious manner).

People can deal with waiting on superiors at work, even if it may be frustrating and irritating, but nothing drives 'em up the wall as much as having to wait on friends -- why is that? It's because at work, the pecking order is clearly established, and even if you disagree with the pecking order, you do grudgingly accept it.

Pecking orders amongst children are easy enough to observe, but amongst adults, things get a bit subtler -- most often, we tend to pretend they don't even exist. But they do.

[CompassRose]

I'm one of the habitually tardy, and I have missed flights and other important life events because of it. I don't like time; I don't like being pinned to it; I don't think of time except when forced. I don't think I'm being hostile, even subconsciously -- but maybe I am...

Over the years, I've managed to mostly pare my tardiness down from twenty-forty minutes to ten or fifteen (largely by setting my clocks fifteen minutes fast, and refusing to think that it means I "really" have fifteen extra minutes).

But I can wait for other late people, or in lines forever, if I have to, and rarely notice how long I wait.

[viva]

I used to be habitually tardy, until I had friends who caught on, and who started telling me that our arrival time was an hour earlier than it actually was. So, if they wanted to meet for dinner at 8, they would tell me 7. I would then arrive at 8 and all would be well.

This is until I actually showed up at 7 and was pissed that I had to wait until 8. A taste of my own medicine worked.

This also works for my younger sister, who cannot get ready on time to save her life.

[birder53]

My brother and his family are usually late. We now invite them to family gatherings with a schedule of events - cocktails at 4:00, dinner at 5:00. We do not wait for them if they are not here when everyone else is and he knows he can fend for himself in the kitchen whenever they arrive. It doesn't seem to bother him and it certainly reduces the tension among the rest of the group.

On another note - the same brother usually has multiple events scheduled for any given weekend due to the myriad activities his children participate in. His wife will try to see if she can sqeeze in some time at a planned family gathering because they need to be at "A" in the morning and at "B" at 8:00 PM, but could probably come over for about two hours in between. They are 1 1/2 hours away. This becomes disruptive because they will be late anyway and throw off the rest of the gameplan because they are not planning to stay for dinner. We try not to eat too late because my parents have a long drive home and prefer not to travel late at night. I would prefer if they just didn't come at all if they are that busy! What's wrong with people who feel that they must do everything and be everywhere??? (end of rant...)

[Chris Amirault]

This drives me nuts, too, here in the US. But I want to add that this (along with everything else we talk about on eGullet) is culturally relative.

In Saudi Arabia, when my hosts would set a time for dinner at a restaurant, that could mean that they and others would arrive anywhere within a two- or three-hour time frame. Of course, restaurants in Riyadh know this, and we would have little snacks, nuts, Saudi coffee, etc. as we waited.

This was also true for home meals. I once cooked a feast for twenty at someone's house, and decided to have primarily antipasti with a titanic bowl of putanesca at the end, since I didn't have to worry about serving things piping hot....

How to solve this problem, I dunno. Suggest they dine in Saudi Arabia?

[TheFoodTutor]

People can deal with waiting on superiors at work, even if it may be frustrating and irritating, but nothing drives 'em up the wall as much as having to wait on friends -- why is that? It's because at work, the pecking order is clearly established, and even if you disagree with the pecking order, you do grudgingly accept it.

Well put. This is precisely why I wouldn't put up with this behavior from friends. I am friends with people whom I perceive to be my equals, and if my friends express to me that they perceive me to be inferior to them, or somehow lower on the pecking order, they cease to be my friends. A few minutes late is one thing, or perhaps even 15 if one is caught in traffic and forgot to bring a cell phone, but being chronically late and not calling to indicate that something is amiss is a slap in the face.

I'm sorry, but I have too many friends to put up with that sort of nonsense.

[Toliver]

What a hot button issue!

If something like this happened to me, I'd be so incredibly pissed that I'd be in a horrible mood and would be the devil to get along with. 

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It makes for an interesting meal, doesn't it?

I am notorious in my circle of friends for usually arriving early when meeting up with them and not being a happy camper when someone shows up late (put me in the Dr. Phil camp on this issue).

Many moons ago I was supposed to meet two friends at a local bar/restaurant at 7pm. I was early, of course, and both of my friends showed up late. Very late. I was royally ticked off at them by the time they showed up. One of them had boyfriend problems that caused her to be late and the other had boss problems that caused him to be late so we finally went into the restaurant and started off with a couple rounds of heavy drinking since we were all in pissy moods.

The drinking continued throughout the dinner and by the end of the meal, we were so looped we had to have the waitress explain the bill to us.

To this day I still don't easily tolerate tardiness. Afterall, if I can make an effort to show up on time, why can't they?

[emmapeel]

Well put. This is precisely why I wouldn't put up with this behavior from friends. I am friends with people whom I perceive to be my equals, and if my friends express to me that they perceive me to be inferior to them, or somehow lower on the pecking order, they cease to be my friends. A few minutes late is one thing, or perhaps even 15 if one is caught in traffic and forgot to bring a cell phone, but being chronically late and not calling to indicate that something is amiss is a slap in the face.

I'm sorry, but I have too many friends to put up with that sort of nonsense.

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Absolutely. I can make more money, I can always make new friends, but I can never make more time. Time is the most valuable thing I have, and for a "friend" to make me waste it, is unforgivable. I don't give them a chance. I enjoy going out to restaurants, and I want it to be an entertainment, not an issue of superiority and inferiority.

[Pan]

Yeah, someone who was four hours late without having been in the Emergency Room would no longer be my friend.

[Eden]

Hot button for me too.

I am terminally prompt, always allow a little nudge time for there to be a traffic problem etc. If you say be there at 7, I will be there at 7, not 7:10, never 7:55, at 7:00, because I would never want to make someone wait for me (especially when it's for a meal!). So I am hurt & frustrated by my friends who cannot treat me with the same courtesy, or at least not be chronically 20+ minutes late, all the more so when I know that they can & will be on time when something is important enough to them (work, planes etc)

Unlike thefoodtutor & emmapeel however I don't feel that I have enough friends to ditch those I have left lightly. (I've done a lot of trimming in the last few years so there's not a lot of fluff left) The worst offender remining in my life is otherwise a very good friend, the kind that would help you hide bodies and brings you sparkly toys & pop-tarts when you're sick - not someone I want to cut out of my life at all, but I do wish I could convey how egregious I find the anti-clock behavior. Maybe I should steal her keys

[Makan King]

As they say -- if you're important enough, people will wait for you... From an anthropological point of view, being perpetually late is simply an establishment of a social pecking order (even if it is done in a vaguely subconscious manner).

This unfortunately is still the psyche that prevails at Chinese wedding banquets in Singapore. The older guests feel that they cannot arrive early or on time or else they would 'lose face'.

The wedding invitation will invariably state cocktails at 7pm and dinner at 7.30pm. And invariably, dinner will be late, usually starting after well after 8pm. In the most egregious cases, dinner has been known to start after 9pm. And this is for an eight-course banquet that is served course by course! And most wedding banquets are not small-scale in Singapore; the typical number of guests is around 400 (40 tables of 10 each). You can just imagine the frenetic pace at which the later dishes (usually the rice or noodle dish and dessert) are whipped onto the table, so that the banquet can be completely served before midnight.

And since this is Singapore, there have been quasi-government efforts to put a stop to this custom. Campaigns have been organized to encourage guests to be on time for wedding dinners, even to the extent of having lucky draws and prizes for the punctual guests! Still tardiness is a hard custom to overcome. Guests may be arriving earlier than before, but they are still late, so that maybe the dinner will now start between 8.15 and 8.30pm instead of 8.30 and 9pm.

[Timh]

Folks who show up late to my house for a dinner are hopefully shamed when they walk in and find the dinner in progress. Depending on what was served, they may get the courses missed, or they will just get what is down when they arrive. I find lateness for dinner parties particularly rude.

Tim

[jgm]

I had a friend who was always late and then one day he left the keys to his life in my car (serious big ring of keys). I called him and said where do you want to meet and when to get your keys? It took him ten weeks to realize I would not wait longer than 5 min for him and he set the time and place. The joy of that day when I showed up and he was waiting. Almost made me want to leave, but he got the point.      

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Number of minutes one is willing to wait on a chronically late friend: 5

Number of his keys in your possession: 34 -?

Number of weeks in possession of his keys: 10

Making him suffer for his rudeness: priceless

I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it, and I applaud you. How satisfying it must have been! I probably would have wimped out after a couple of weeks, and made it easy on him. I love it that you just hung in there, as long as it took for him to figure it out.

[winesonoma]

I had a friend who was always late and then one day he left the keys to his life in my car (serious big ring of keys). I called him and said where do you want to meet and when to get your keys? It took him ten weeks to realize I would not wait longer than 5 min for him and he set the time and place. The joy of that day when I showed up and he was waiting. Almost made me want to leave, but he got the point.      

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Number of minutes one is willing to wait on a chronically late friend: 5

Number of his keys in your possession: 34 -?

Number of weeks in possession of his keys: 10

Making him suffer for his rudeness: priceless

I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it, and I applaud you. How satisfying it must have been! I probably would have wimped out after a couple of weeks, and made it easy on him. I love it that you just hung in there, as long as it took for him to figure it out.

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Remember that he set all the times and places. I was doing him a favor.

Edited March 24, 2005 by winesonoma (log)

[Susan G]

Not only would I begin eating dinner at agreed-upon restaurant, I would have staff remove the extra seats and table settings! "Oh! I thought you weren't coming, you were so late!" Shame the shameless.

I've walked this talk........two years ago, I was to meet my fiance and his parents at a restaurant in a city midway between our houses. My fiance was chronically late, and I had earlier told him in our dating life I would wait 20 minutes for him, no more. I show up at the restaurant early. Wait twenty minutes past the reservation. Leave.

I was clear that after 20 minutes of fuming, and hunger pangs (*delicious* food smells from the kitchen!), and a dropping blood sugar, I was doing them a favor by leaving: My ability to be sociable with THESE INCONSIDERATE ASSHOLES had quite left me.

We're family now, anyway. My best to you in dealing with your family.

[jgarner53]

I'm in the start without them camp. I don't have many friends/relatives who are chronically late, but I'm not gonna rearrange my life just to accommodate theirs. If you're more than 15 minutes late, I'm either leaving or taking the table and starting without you. If I'm hosting and dinner's ready, we're eating, whether you are there or not, particularly if you're so rude that you couldn't bother to call to let me know. I'll be glad to see you when you show up, as long as you don't mind that I'm eating my entrée by the time you order.

Fortunately no one I know is bad enough that they would be hours late for an event, certainly not without calling or without extenuating circumstances (car trouble, trip to the ER with a sick kid, etc.)

[Ling]

Back in high school, it was never a big deal to be late (at least with my friends). If we arranged to meet for dinner at 7pm, no one would be at the restaurant until at least 7:30pm, and no one would blink at anyone arriving 8pm or later. (We didn't make reservations so we wouldn't inconvenience the restaurant.) This is just how we were--we ordered food when we got there, and no one was offended that we didn't wait for them if they were late. No explanations or apologies were needed...I guess we were all very easy-going. I never took offense if some people were late--we would come in small groups, and no one was ever without company.

We were the same way in university, though perhaps not quite as late as we were in high school. Still, being 15-20 minutes late was still pretty standard, and no one (as far as I could tell) felt affronted. If someone had made reservations, someone would be there at the appointed time and order for the others stuck in traffic/fighting with SO/lost/still deciding what to wear.

Now that I'm 22, I do try to be reasonably on time for lunches and dinners, but it really depends on who I'm eating with. I have lunch or dessert once or twice a week with some of the other Vancouver Egulleters, and I try to be on time because I've noticed that I'm usually the last one arriving (even though I'm usually only a few minutes late--I am notoriously bad with directions!) They seem to be pretty forgiving so far....but really, it wasn't until I read this thread that I found out that this is interpreted as rude by some. If I arranged to have lunch with a friend and she was 15 minutes late, I wouldn't think anything of it. I'd just look at the menu and decide on what to order, and maybe have a cocktail while I'm waiting. I guess I'm just like that, but it's really not a big deal to me.

With my non-Egullet friends, we usually say, "I'll be here at _____________ from 7pm-10pm, so drop by whenever." We hang out at casual restaurants, and I think servers are accustomed to having people our age drop by and put in orders for more drinks and food throughout the evening.

Edited March 26, 2005 by Ling (log)

[TheFoodTutor]

With my non-Egullet friends, we usually say, "I'll be here at _____________ from 7pm-10pm, so drop by whenever." We hang out at casual restaurants, and I think servers are accustomed to having people our age drop by and put in orders for more drinks and food throughout the evening.

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Generally, at casual restaurants, this is probably reasonable, but there are a few things to consider:

* Many times, tables of this type (with early arrivals, later arrivals, and really late arrivals) will also have people who wish to leave at various times, and many times those people will suddenly ask for their tabs, presuming the server is keeping a separate, running tab for everyone at the table. Actually, most times the server would have to know ahead of time to run separate tabs, or perhaps would have to go back and separate the check out, which will take some time. Meanwhile, new joiners want to put in orders on the existing table, and all of this multi-tasking is a lot of work.

* Many restaurants have a policy of auto-grat on large tables, if the table is 6 or more people, but what if you don't know for sure how many are showing up and when? And you can't make that decision if someone wants to leave before everyone's arrived, can you?

* How long are you taking up a table large enough for a large party in these restaurants? If one person walks in early enough to get a table for 8, is he or she sitting there with a cocktail for hours while other parties are waiting at the door? Are you costing the restaurant and the server money in lost opportunity for sales?

One night, I was serving at a casual restaurant and I happened to have a table large enough to accommodate parties of 7 or 8. 2 men came in early enough to ask for that table, stating that another 6 people would be joining them. They waited and waited, ordered appetizers and chatted. . . Finally, they ordered entrees and after they'd finished dinner 2 women showed up to join them. Now, sometime along the way, they'd assured me that, no matter what, they would "take care" of me. I gave them very good service and kept watch for anything they might need, as well as any joiners who might arrive for their party. After the bill was paid and a tip was left as a percentage of the bill, the gentleman who made me that promise reached into his pocket and gave me $40 in cash for taking up my table for that long.

That was refreshing, to be honest. I don't know if he's worked in the restaurant industry before, but he seemed to be an exceptionally good judge of how much money I would have made, if I'd been able to turn that table, given that we were on a wait most of the time they were there. Frankly, that experience stands out in my mind, because most people just don't think that way.

[winesonoma]

Back in high school, it was never a big deal to be late (at least with my friends). If we arranged to meet for dinner at 7pm, no one would be at the restaurant until at least 7:30pm, and no one would blink at anyone arriving 8pm or later. (We didn't make reservations so we wouldn't inconvenience the restaurant.) This is just how we were--we ordered food when we got there, and no one was offended that we didn't wait for them if they were late. No explanations or apologies were needed...I guess we were all very easy-going. I never took offense if some people were late--we would come in small groups, and no one was ever without company.

We were the same way in university, though perhaps not quite as late as we were in high school. Still, being 15-20 minutes late was still pretty standard, and no one (as far as I could tell) felt affronted. If someone had made reservations, someone would be there at the appointed time and order for the others stuck in traffic/fighting with SO/lost/still deciding what to wear. 

Now that I'm 22, I do try to be reasonably on time for lunches and dinners, but it really depends on who I'm eating with. I have lunch or dessert once or twice a week with some of the other Vancouver Egulleters, and I try to be on time because I've noticed that I'm usually the last one arriving (even though I'm usually only a few minutes late--I am notoriously bad with directions!) They seem to be pretty forgiving so far....but really, it wasn't until I read this thread that I found out that this is interpreted as rude by some. If I arranged to have lunch with a friend and she was 15 minutes late, I wouldn't think anything of it. I'd just look at the menu and decide on what to order, and maybe have a cocktail while I'm waiting. I guess I'm just like that, but it's really not a big deal to me.

With my non-Egullet friends, we usually say, "I'll be here at _____________ from 7pm-10pm, so drop by whenever." We hang out at casual restaurants, and I think servers are accustomed to having people our age drop by and put in orders for more drinks and food throughout the evening.

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I'd like to rent this table for the night. How much do you usually make in tips? Thanks I'll give you 20% over that, so I can rent this table.

[Pan]

Truthfully, unless reservations are really tight in a restaurant, I'm only moderately upset if someone is 15 minutes late. And if I occupy a table a long time, I always up my tip. 15 minutes late is a kind of cutoff point for me. If someone is 30 minutes late, they'd better have a good reason, unless it's a large group meet-up outside a big dim sum eating hall, in which case, I don't like it that someone will always be 30 minutes late, but I kind of expect it.

[Octaveman]

Like many of you, I too hate to deal with people who are late or never show. I've dealt with this from one of my friends when dining out and eating at home. Since most of my entertaining is small group dinners (usually 4) at home so being late doesn't affect other's except my wife and I. It's easier to wait when there's nobody else involved. But I always give him shit and he's been getting better but hasn't been on-time yet. The other night, him and his s/o came over for sushi and was 15 minutes late. I didn't even start preparing the ingredients until they showed up because I didn't want to do all that prep work for nothing since we weren't going to eat all that food by ourselves. We ate an hour and a half later. If we're meeting others to eat out, we start without them after 15 minutes we haven't heard from them.

I'm not sure why people show up late all the time. Sure, there's the occasional traffic was bad or got stuck at work thing but I'm talking about ALL the time. Sometimes when dealing with my friends, I get the impression that they just don't know how to plan anything. They find themselves doing what they wanted to do for any given day then they realize they're going to be late because they tried to do too much in only so much time. Or they think they have time to drive all the way home, shower and come all the way back when in reality the time they had available was just enough to get home. I'm also not sure why people don't take the time to call. They have a phone, they know the number. Are they that stupid to think that since they're normally 30 minutes late to everything that another 15 minutes is no big deal since in their minds they're really only 15 minutes late? I just don't think these people realize how they're making the other party feel. Because if they were "friends" they would make an effort. My guess is that these "friends" don't host dinner parties often. I know my friends haven't.

What about those who say they hate to be constrained by time. I've got a question for you...why do you never show up EARLY ? Why is it always late? Are you habitually late for work? How do you keep a job? Are you lazy? Why don't you give your friends the same level of responsibility? What about respect for your friends time whom don't subscribe to your ambivilancy? You are not the center of the universe to me and if you show up late, I will start without you. Obviously hanging out me/us is not that important to you so I/we won't make it important to me/us either. Buh bye and good luck with life.

HELLLLLO? It's time to go to work, it's time to meet for lunch, it's time to see the movie, it's time to catch that flight, it's time for everything. The whole world is run by time. You are in the minority and if you want to function with the majority, certain apsects of your life must change or give up other aspects of your life.

[winesonoma]

Reminds me of the story of the young lady who was always late for work. Her supervisor discussed this with her and said you realize everyone see's you come through the door late every day. She replied oh! which door do you want me to use so they don't notice?