chiffon cake

TurtleMeng · January 22, 2005

Here goes another of my long-puzzled question.

Chiffon cake. Has oil. Strangely enough, a lot of my baking books bought in Asia like to use it as a cake base, in contrast to sponge or genoise.

Looking @ all the books here, they tell you a chiffon is baked in a tube pan and inverted to cool. Fine. I've made chiffons and done that, no problem.

So, can you bake a chiffon in a regular round pan? Ok, that sounds dumb, of course anyone can. I mean how do you cool it? Just invert it? What if the cake is slightly higher than the pan? Just get 3-inch high pans? Is this "Inverting" really crucial?

In Asia I even bought these "racks" (they look like a ring with 3 tongs on them, wish I could draw it here) that you supposedly can cool the cakes on them. I have not even attempted, with my limited time playing with my genoise.

Thank you for your thoughts.

chefpeon · January 22, 2005

Well to answer your first question, yeah I do like making it. It's so.......dependable. It always works for me. And I've always baked them off in regular round pans because I use them for layers in my white chocolate mousse cake. Never used a tube pan actually....never had a use for it.

I do invert my chiffons right out of the oven.....because uh.....well because.....um.....because I think it prevents the cake from sinking in the center as it cools. My God. I actually sort of forgot why I do something.....it's so automatic, you sort of forget why you do stuff after a while. Sounds like it's time for a screw-up.....you know, just to keep me real and and all that.

I know what you're talking about regarding the "racks". I have a couple of those. They're good for cooling......and they leave little lines in the tops of your cake, but who cares, you'll be cutting them off anyway.

I'm actually not a big sponge or genoise fan.....they need a good soaking of syrup or they're not much good......I prefer to stick with cakes that can stand alone....with or without syrup.

So yeah, those are my thoughts.

By the way, I like your thought provoking questions.

Wendy DeBord · January 22, 2005

I love chiffon cakes. The thing is- you don't grease the sides of your pans, whether it's a tube pan or a standard round cake pan. Let it cling to the walls of the pan for support. But, put parchment paper on the bottom so it doesn't stick there. Let it completely cool in the pan, then cut it out around the sides.

I don't invert my finished chiffon cakes when I bake them in rounds. Honestly, they do cave in and I should invert them. When I cut it into layers it's not an issue.........but I don't want to suggest that you break the rules too. It's not ideal.

Have you tried the chocolate chiffon cake in "Spago Chocolate" yet? It's a fabulous recipe.

beccaboo · January 22, 2005

Well to answer your first question, yeah I do like making it. It's so.......dependable. It always works for me. And I've always baked them off in regular round pans because I use them for layers in my white chocolate mousse cake. Never used a tube pan actually....never had a use for it.
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So do you use springform pans? My Betty Crocker (!) cookbook tells how to make a chiffon cake in a 9x13 pan, but I've never understood how you would get it out of the pan without having greased the bottom, and it doesn't seem like inverting would work if the bottom's greased.

JSkilling · January 22, 2005

What's the difference between an angelfood cake and a chiffon? Or are they the same.

beccaboo · January 22, 2005

What's the difference between an angelfood cake and a chiffon? Or are they the same.
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Chiffon cakes hafe oil and egg yolks, and angelfood cakes don't. Angelfood cakes always seem kind of dry to me, and chiffon cakes are more moist and springy.

chefpeon · January 22, 2005

Like Wendy said, parchment on the bottom, no grease on the sides.

When it's time to unmold, run a knife around the side to loosen the cake,

and invert the pan on a flat surface. :smile:

chromedome · January 22, 2005

To cool your chiffon (or other sponge) cake which has been baked in a round pan, use six of the sturdy round toothpicks. Slide them down the edges of the cake, between the cake and the pan, and evenly spaced. Gently invert the pan. The cake holds the toothpicks in place, and the toothpicks hold the cake off of your surface.

The centre of the cake will not get "rack lines," nor will it collapse. If you're cutting the cake later into layers this will not especially matter, but I've occasionally *wanted* the dome on top for specific reasons.

mignardise · January 22, 2005

Just did a toasted coconut chiffon yesterday. Yes, in round cake pans.......I bake with a parchment, invert immediately out of the oven to cool, 10 mins. Run a small spatula on the sides, and de-pan. Choose a formula that fits your pan sizes. You should have a perfect fit. Sometimes it may dome, but, when you invert, the cake flattens to the rim of the pan. Perfect for torting for a cake.

I love chiffons!!

Ling · January 22, 2005

I like the make chiffon cakes too; they were the first cakes I made out of a Five Roses cookbook when I was 11 or 12.

I've never found the need to put parchment on the bottom, and the cakes usually come out cleanly after they've cooled a bit. (I run a knife along the edge of the tube pan and the tube itself.)

It's interesting that you noted chiffon cakes are popular in Asia--my (Chinese) parents love chiffon cake, and it's become my default dessert to bring to my bf's big family dinners (he's also Chinese). That's OK by me, since chiffon cakes are so easy to do!

I have a chiffon cake craving now--must make one tonight! :raz:

Edited January 22, 2005 by Ling (log)

nightscotsman · January 22, 2005

Have you tried the chocolate chiffon cake in "Spago Chocolate" yet? It's a fabulous recipe.

Is this the same recipe? I'd love to have a good reliable chocolate chiffon cake recipe. I like the one from the Cake Bible, but it's a lttle too fragile to work as a layer cake.

mignardise · January 23, 2005

yes, it is the same Choc. Chiffon Cake in the Spago book.

TurtleMeng · January 23, 2005

I don't invert my finished chiffon cakes when I bake them in rounds. Honestly, they do cave in and I should invert them. When I cut it into layers it's not an issue.........but I don't want to suggest that you break the rules too. It's not ideal.
Have you tried the chocolate chiffon cake in "Spago Chocolate" yet? It's a fabulous recipe.
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Hi Wendy

Would you mind sharing the recipe?

I went thru some old threads and saw your cakes. So cool. I'm gonna ignore my husband more (he constantly tells me to bake less) and be gung ho about baking.

So if you just cool them in the pan, do they literally cave in(let's call it "cancave on top"), or are they just flat (i.e., without a dome)? Because flat is what I want anyways. I often use cakestrips in the hope that cakes will be flat without the dome. I know I should just get in the kitchen and bake one now, but I feel lazy (had a long morning's work).

Yup, as Ling pointed out, Chinese people like chiffon. All these bakeries and wedding cakes you see run by Chinese have chiffon base. I do think genoise is kind of troublesome, like Chefpeon said, needing syrup and all that. Besides, it always makes me nervous folding in the butter that the thing will deflate.

mignardise · January 23, 2005

yes, it is the same Choc. Chiffon Cake in the Spago book.

TurtleMeng · January 23, 2005

To cool your chiffon (or other sponge) cake which has been baked in a round pan, use six of the sturdy round toothpicks. Slide them down the edges of the cake, between the cake and the pan, and evenly spaced. Gently invert the pan. The cake holds the toothpicks in place, and the toothpicks hold the cake off of your surface.
The centre of the cake will not get "rack lines," nor will it collapse. If you're cutting the cake later into layers this will not especially matter, but I've occasionally *wanted* the dome on top for specific reasons.
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Thanks, what kind of tooth picks are you talkinb about? I doubt the regular kind becasue they don't even seem long enough.

mignardise · January 23, 2005

Turtle..... you are going to peel off the top of the sponge anyways, so there is not a need for that step, and any crumbs on the sides. You want to work with a clean chiffon sponge.

chefpeon · January 23, 2005

I went thru some old threads and saw your cakes. So cool. I'm gonna ignore my husband more (he constantly tells me to bake less) and be gung ho about baking.

There's pictures of Wendy's cakes? Where? I wanna see!

My husband tells me to bake less too......because he feels like he's gotta eat it. It just sits there and calls out to him. Poor man.

Just give stuff to your neighbors, they'll love you, and if you ever need a favor from them (like who'll feed your cat when you're on vacation) then they'll already owe you...... :wink:

you are going to peel off the top of the sponge anyways,

Oh yeah, one of the neat things about chiffon. If you bake them off one day, then refrigerate them overnight, you can literally peel off the skin from the cake and you're good to go.

TurtleMeng · January 23, 2005

Turtle..... you are going to peel off the top of the sponge anyways, so there is not a need for that step, and any crumbs on the sides. You want to work with a clean chiffon sponge.
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hello

are you telling me you always take the time to trim your cake (the top)? I try to avoid that like crazy (hence the cakestrips) because the trimmed top is more crumbly and hard to frost. Besides, my serrated knife sucks. I need a longer one... :angry:

chefpeon · January 23, 2005

because the trimmed top is more crumbly and hard to frost.

Hence, the crumb coat!

Put a thin coat of icing on your cake and let the crumbs get into the icing. Then refrigerate for about 30 minutes. This coat adheres the crumbs to the cake, so when you put your second coat on, you have no troubles.

I always trim the tops of my cakes.....

A) to make them perfectly level, and

B) to expose the crumb in case I want to brush it with syrup

TurtleMeng · January 23, 2005

I went thru some old threads and saw your cakes. So cool. I'm gonna ignore my husband more (he constantly tells me to bake less) and be gung ho about baking.
There's pictures of Wendy's cakes? Where? I wanna see!
My husband tells me to bake less too......because he feels like he's gotta eat it. It just sits there and calls out to him. Poor man.
Just give stuff to your neighbors, they'll love you, and if you ever need a favor from them (like who'll feed your cat when you're on vacation) then they'll already owe you......
you are going to peel off the top of the sponge anyways,
Oh yeah, one of the neat things about chiffon. If you bake them off one day, then refrigerate them overnight, you can literally peel off the skin from the cake and you're good to go.
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Hi Anne

I guess everyone wants to see Wendy's cakes, but I screwed up...being new and learing everyone's names, the cakes I saw were YOUR cakes. :blink: :wacko: :shock: :laugh: They are cool. I don't know how long it's gonna take until I can be THAT cool, but it's good to have a lofty goal.

My husband is a little different...well he is kind of chubby already, but mainly he thinks, ahem, how can I translate this?....that I do not like to attend to my "duly businesses" (i.e., seeing more patients or answering more pages, whipping the son to play piano and do HW). Long story. My main targets are the other clinics in our buildings. Nurses love to munch.

I have to bake a chiffon tonight and put it in the fridge. I want to see how the skin peels off. We have a tendency to eat everything when it's still HOT so I do not recall how it looked after a stay in the fridge. It's pretty pathetic.

yvegeny · January 23, 2005

Is this the same recipe?
Unfortunately, this recipe doesn't specify a temperature to be baked at. Could anyone help me with this? Thanks

Wendy DeBord · January 23, 2005

I'm sorry, I guess I missed the questions dirrected at me about the cake recipe. I'm glad you all jumped in with the answer. I believe it's baked at 350F.

In the Spago book she uses thise recipe in a couple applications. I think it's when she makes a layer cake with it, she decreases the amount of oil (I think from 3/4 c. to 1/2 c.). Anyway the point is, the version with less oil is better, the one with more is just too much. So decrease the oil in that recipe.

I use that recipe for all my chocolate cake rolls, it's wonderful.

When I mentioned deflate or sinking in the middle, yeap it does. I've mentioned this before that I hate over baked cakes and if you bake this as a layer cake correctly it WILL sink inward when cool. I've never had those cake strips you bake with, so I don't know how that will work.

M. Lucia · January 23, 2005

My home baking doesn't lean toward chiffon cakes, but I do enjoy them.

I was wondering what do you all use your chiffon cakes for?

Wendy indicated for chocolate rolls as one example.

Do you bake them in tube pans? Or do you bake them round with a simple glaze?

When you use them for layer cakes what are your syrups/fillings/frostings?

Thanks!

Wendy DeBord · January 23, 2005

I was wondering what do you all use your chiffon cakes for?
Wendy indicated for chocolate rolls as one example.
Do you bake them in tube pans? Or do you bake them round with a simple glaze?
When you use them for layer cakes what are your syrups/fillings/frostings?
Thanks!
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You bake them and use them exactly like any other cake. You can make simple layer cakes with them or complex layered torte. The lightness and moisture of these cakes do make a great substitution for say a butter cake (which tends to be heavier) or a genoise (which tends to be drier with a denser crumb).

You can bake them in tube pans, but you also can bake them in regular cake pans with-out a center heat core.

JSkilling · January 23, 2005

Will they hold up as layers in a tiered wedding cake? I'd want to torte them and fill.

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