Disinfecting the Kitchen: [How] Do You Do This?

[merrybaker]

Since I'm a neurotic who bleaches everything in sight, I called up Clorox for more info on the subject. Much to my surprise I was told that only "regular" noxious Clorox works as a disinfectant. Lemon, meadow fresh, etc. will deodorize, but not disinfect. Since I've been using perfumed bleach all this time, I guess I've just been lucky. For a cutting board I was told to use 3 Tbl. bleach to a gallon of water, and let it soak for 2 minutes. I never do that either, just pour it over and rinse it off. Also, never make up the bleach solution in advance -- it changes chemically and no longer disinfects. Well, live and learn...

[Really Nice!]

A mixture of bleach and water loses it's sanitizing abilities after 4 hours. Also, use water that is under 75F. Hotter water breaks bleach down enough to where it's useless.

[jgm]

A mixture of bleach and water loses it's sanitizing abilities after 4 hours. Also, use water that is under 75F. Hotter water breaks bleach down enough to where it's useless.

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You mean that when I wash sheets in hot water, with bleach, the bleach is not effective at all?????

[winesonoma]

A mixture of bleach and water loses it's sanitizing abilities after 4 hours. Also, use water that is under 75F. Hotter water breaks bleach down enough to where it's useless.

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You mean that when I wash sheets in hot water, with bleach, the bleach is not effective at all?????

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It does make them fall apart faster, if that's what your after.

[jgarner53]

That's really good to know. I used to keep a spray bottle with bleach and water in it -- guess I can toss that out.

And as far as laundry goes, I guess most of us don't need to disinfect our clothes, so the deodorizing only properties of perfumed bleach.

While we're on the topic, what's everyone's favorite degreaser?

[peppyre]

I'm really fond of the Vim OxyClean right now. Good at getting off grease and also kills Pharoah ants on contact.

[ladyyoung98]

dawn

[slkinsey]

A mixture of bleach and water loses it's sanitizing abilities after 4 hours.

Really?! Interesting. Where did you get this information?

[EdS]

A mixture of bleach and water loses it's sanitizing abilities after 4 hours. Also, use water that is under 75F. Hotter water breaks bleach down enough to where it's useless.

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I keep a spray bottle of bleach solution at the ready when I'm working in the kitchen. It gets refilled every few weeks. Why would bleach degrade by adding water to it?

[lala]

Yeah, I don't understand that either?

[andiesenji]

If bleach degraded in water then there would be no point in using it to disinfect metropolitan water supplies and our swimming pools.

I have a spray bottle of 5% bleach solution which I use constantly in the kitchen, as does my housekeeper.

It certainly works like newly-mixed bleach solution, as it takes the tea stains out of tea cups and pots and it absolutely kills molds.

SUNLIGHT degrades cholorine which is why water treatment plants have indoor treating facilities or enclosed tanks (and we have to add it to swimming pools on a regular basis) but if you keep your spray in an opaque bottle or out of the window, it should work just fine.

Probably someone put this out so they can sell more bleach.

Way back in the days when I did laboratory work, we used made-up bleach soluction to disinfect everything as we had to be sure to avoid cross-contamination of cultures.

The petrie dishes were washed, dipped in a bleach solution then rinsed with distilled water and dried in a hot-air oven. We mixed the bleach in big containers that were connected by hoses to the lab sinks.

We constantly did test cultures of swabs drawn along the bench tops and around the drawer and cabinet handles and on varioius pieces of equipment to make sure there were no stray organisims that might screw up the results of the cultures.

If the bleach water had not been disinfecting, we would have had lots of bacteria growing in the cultures.

[hathor]

I scrub my cutting board with baking soda. Does that dis-infect? I never liked the idea of putting bleach on my board.

[Juanito]

I agree that bleach loses its disinfecting properties, over the course of a couple of hours. That is why when the health inspector comes into a restaurant, they want to see quaternary sanitizer. If a restaurant has a bucket of bleach solution for wipedowns, it had better be at the proper concentration, or the operator will be written up.

There's no need to guess at this. Restaurant supply houses sell test strips, and they are inexpensive. I suggest that those of you that believe your bleach still has "the power" after hours or days test it with the strips. While you are picking up the test strips, do yourself a favor and pick up some quat sanitizer, and start to make your solutions with that rather than bleach. It's a much more stable product.

[NulloModo]

I wouldn't say it was luck, I would say it was you braking through the veil of paranoia. We are far too concerned with 'kitchen saftety' in this country. It is a hell of a lot harder to get sick from something we cook than most people let on. Just enjoy the cooking, clean when you get the chance or when something starts smelling bad, and don't worry about it.

[rooftop1000]

I scrape my cutting board with a hardware store "spackle knife"? doesnt really fit in the sink and water raises the grain too much. When i work with fresh lemons i will give it a salt and lemon scrub too.

Wooden boards last I heard had tannins in them that kill cooties anyway .....would never use plastic at home

[jmcgrath]

Well, household bleach is a 4% of sodium hypochlorite solution to begin with. The other 96% is water. If water degraded bleach, it wouldn't be used as part of the solution.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with those writing "I've been taking such and such health risks for years and nothing has happened to me". I'll be the first to admit that I order my burgers medium rare, but I'll be the last to suggest that others do so.

Each person should decide for themselves what risks they want to take, whether it's crossing the street against a red light or eating a rare or medium rare burger. Promoting health risks is not on my agenda.

Jim

[winesonoma]

Well, household bleach is a 4% of sodium hypochlorite solution to begin with. The other 96% is water. If water degraded bleach, it wouldn't be used as part of the solution.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with those writing "I've been taking such and such health risks for years and nothing has happened to me". I'll be the first to admit that I order my burgers medium rare, but I'll be the last to suggest that others do so.

Each person should decide for themselves what risks they want to take, whether it's crossing the street against a red light or eating a rare or medium rare burger. Promoting health risks is not on my agenda.

Jim

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My 1st rule is that no raw meat ever goes on my main cutting board. I have a board for that. I also have a carving board for cooked meat. Everything else goes on the main cutting board and it gets wiped down and oil added as needed

[NulloModo]

Each person should decide for themselves what risks they want to take, whether it's crossing the street against a red light or eating a rare or medium rare burger. Promoting health risks is not on my agenda.

Jim

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I suppose this was directed at me, so I will respond.

I advocate it, if only for one reason: the potential rewards far outweigh the risks.

What is the point of living one's life in fear? If I die before I reach 30, then so be it, at least I enjoyed some good rare burgers in my day.

[winesonoma]

Each person should decide for themselves what risks they want to take, whether it's crossing the street against a red light or eating a rare or medium rare burger. Promoting health risks is not on my agenda.

Jim

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I suppose this was directed at me, so I will respond.

I advocate it, if only for one reason: the potential rewards far outweigh the risks.

What is the point of living one's life in fear? If I die before I reach 30, then so be it, at least I enjoyed some good rare burgers in my day.

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A proper Rare Burger done on a proper roll is what I would order before I was executed. If they were honest I would live for another 10 years as they looked for one. With a proper cheese=5 more years.

Edited January 22, 2005 by winesonoma (log)

[chuck]

I was made to understand that the reason bleach didn't work in hot water was that it would evaporate out almost immediately. I think that if you keep a bleach solution sealed in a spray bottle out of direct sunlight it will be fine for a while. Two weeks sounds reasonable to me.

'Just enjoy the cooking, clean when you get the chance or when something starts smelling bad, and don't worry about it.'

'...the potential rewards far outweigh the risks.'

-NulloModo

Well, obviously plenty of common sense employed there. What are you, seventeen?

[jmcgrath]

Each person should decide for themselves what risks they want to take, whether it's crossing the street against a red light or eating a rare or medium rare burger. Promoting health risks is not on my agenda.

Jim

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I suppose this was directed at me, so I will respond.

I advocate it, if only for one reason: the potential rewards far outweigh the risks.

What is the point of living one's life in fear? If I die before I reach 30, then so be it, at least I enjoyed some good rare burgers in my day.

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I don't think my comments were diriected at you. Certainly I would advise folks to be aware of their immunity constraints. Each person needs to decide for themselves the risk/reward paradigm. You may be pushing 30, while I'm piushing 62.

Jim

[slbunge]

I was made to understand that the reason bleach didn't work in hot water was that it would evaporate out almost immediately.  I think that if you keep a bleach solution sealed in a spray bottle out of direct sunlight it will be fine for a while.  Two weeks sounds reasonable to me.

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Bleach is affected by both eavporation and sunlight. You are correct that hot water will promote evaporation until it cools and the question is, how much of the active ingredient have you lost by that time.

The reason that health inspectors don't like a solution is because the wide opening promotes evaporation. If the thing has been sitting around all day, it will be significantly more dilute at the end of the day than at the beginning. This is what the health inspectors are likely worried about.

So, agreed, weak chlorine bleach solution stored in a closed container (e.g. spray bottle) should last for a good long time.

One interesting thing, though, is that chlorine is not a terribly good 'contact' disinfectant. It is used in water supplies because it is cheap and because water supplies can rely on reasonably long residence times (and for many other reasons). A minimum of 15 minutes residence is required and most often you get much more than that in residential water distribution systems because of the distance your faucet is from where the chlorine is added. This would suggest that if disinfection is your goal, you may not want to immediately dry the surfaces you just washed down or you will be promoting shorter residence times. There is decent reading at public health sites regarding effectiveness based on residence times and strength if you are trying to evaluate the best approach for your risk tolerance. Let Google be your friend.

[MGLloyd]

I knew that graduate degree in chemistry would come in handy some day. Aqueous solutions of chlorine do degrade over time. Exposure to air (oxygen) and sunlight (UV radiation) break down the active chlorine in a sodium hypochlorite solution. Since it is the active chlorine that provides the disinfectant action, a degraded solution is useless to disinfect. Keeping a bleach solution in a cool climate, a closed container, stored away from sunlight and adding a bit of alkaline can maintain a disinfectant solution for up to six months.

Here is a webpage that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about chlorine. I also read some interesting pages talking about how soaking a female condom in bleach ( ) for re-use will degrade the condom membrane. At first I thought, 'why would anyone be reusing a female condom?'. But attempts to find a safe way to re-use female condoms is of great importance is developing countries that are using them to help control the spread of HIV. I learn something every day.

PS: Edited to add that Mr. Bunge above and I were typing our responses simultaneously. I agree with his comments.

Edited January 22, 2005 by MGLloyd (log)

[NulloModo]

Well, obviously plenty of common sense employed there.  What are you, seventeen?

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Well, 23, but I don't think it was an age-related comment. Obviously if you have known immune system problems you have to take more care, but for most people, our immune systems are a hell of a lot stronger than we seem to think they are.

Of course it comes down to a matter of your own priorities as well. The risk of getting sick from food is pretty darn low, and even if you do, the chances of it being fatal are so small that they can almost be completely dismissed. I'm willing to risk an occasional case of something nasty so as to not have to be paranoid in my own kitchen. If it makes you feel better to constantly clean and wipe down every surface you see with a disinfectant, then go for it, after all, it is your kitchen. For me, breaking out a bucket of bleach or having to wash the cutting board and countertops after every meal I prepare totally kills the mood, and if I did that, I would end up just living off of take-out to avoid the hassle.

[Pan]

Well, 23, but I don't think it was an age-related comment.[...]

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If I die before I reach 30, then so be it, at least I enjoyed some good rare burgers in my day.

Seems age-related to me.

Perhaps more to the point, I think most of us are glad we reached 30.