Chef/Restaurant websites (merged topic)

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

I am constantly checking out restaurant web sites, as I'm sure most of you are, too. Not only is there a dearth of good sites, but I've been Flashed so much I feel like I should file a report for indecent exposure. (Flash in its place is fine, but I think there's way too much of it out there. It's like some kind of a p*ssing contest.)

However, I do love seeing good art. And I love griping about bad art.

What are some restaurant web sites you admire? What is essential? What is overkill?

Someone sent me a link to Daniel Boulud, and I can't say I've ever seen a more elaborate site architecture or design, ever, for a restaurant. I think it's warranted, given the scope of his work. For a lesser place, it would be overkill, certainly.

Le Bernadin: no Flash (hooray), understated and not pushy. I love that they've got a page devoted to the kitchen itself.

Guy Savoy: very beautiful color palette.

Troisgros: once you're past the intro, it's just beautifully done. I love the iconic navigation at the top.

If a web site were a book cover, what intrigue you enough to want to read it?

Post 'em here. This is ongoing research for me...and surely this will be a useful archive to have in eGullet.

(Edited to use the subjunctive.)

Edited August 28, 2004 by tanabutler (log)

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

Gary Danko: pretty, Flashy, and pretty flashy. I really like the tutorial section, though I wouldn't want to see that on every restaurant site, clearly. And I like the "Tasting Menu" photograph inside the kitchen. Very well done.

Carolyn Tillie · August 27, 2004

Gary Danko: pretty, Flashy, and pretty flashy. I really like the tutorial section, though I wouldn't want to see that on every restaurant site, clearly. And I like the "Tasting Menu" photograph inside the kitchen. Very well done.

I was just going to mention that one! I like the architectural motifs (the building blocks at the beginning flash) of his site.

Gifted Gourmet · August 27, 2004

Union Pacific website

I do happen to like this one in terms of layout and details, colors, and style ... even if the chef/owner is, you know, Rocco ... :rolleyes:

and this website for the colors and simplicity and the ease of use:

Gabriella Cafe .. I find it artistic and reflective of the restaurant itself ( a favorite ) ... not a plug, as much as a style of design I enjoy ... :biggrin:

Carolyn Tillie · August 27, 2004

Union Pacific website
I do happen to like this one in terms of layout and details, colors, and style ... even if the chef/owner is, you know, Rocco ...

I don't mind Flash, but I really, really hate websites that force music on to you. I'm one of those that consistently use my computer to listen to music (Internet Radio is a great thing!) and I immediately leave a site that includes music...

Sorry Rocco! :shock:

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

Union Pacific website

Now we're talking. That is a very attractive site. Simple and bright and I don't care if it's Rocco, either, it is very well thought-out. I like that they offer you an HTML version and a Flash version. I visited HTML first and was quite impressed. (Note: no music on the HTML site, thankfully.)

They lose points from me in the Flash version because you can't turn the damned music off.

People who stick music in web sites, gratuitously, should have electrodes fastened to their...

Never mind. I made my point.

Cafe Coppola: this solves a problem I've often seen online: how to represent twin entities in one web presence. They integrate the San Francisco and Palo Alto locations into a marquee-style banner evocative of the Twenties and Thirties. Very nice, even though I'm not wild about the colors.

Jean-Georges.com: the colors are not appetizing to me. Too stark, too sterile, too stylized. What's unique on that site is how his recipes have diagrams and not photos. I think that's interesting. You can get beyond your preconceptions that way. But even the diagrams themselves are so geometric that they're on the sterile side. Electrodes fastened for the automatic music that sounds like the soundtracks on the Barbie porn channel (SpiceTV).

Edited August 27, 2004 by tanabutler (log)

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

I don't mind Flash, but I really, really hate websites that force music on to you.

Absolutely! It's like having a perfume insert in a magazine.

stovetop · August 27, 2004

Toronto Web Sites

Vancouver websites

Whistler Web pages

Edmonton web sites

Edited August 27, 2004 by stovetop (log)

Carolyn Tillie · August 27, 2004

I don't mind Flash, but I really, really hate websites that force music on to you.
Absolutely! It's like having a perfume insert in a magazine.

Argh! My other big pet peeve (and the reason I no longer have a Gourmet subscription!)

Laksa · August 27, 2004

I don't mind Flash, but I really, really hate websites that force music on to you.
Absolutely! It's like having a perfume insert in a magazine.

When I'm reading such a magazine in the bathroom, those perfume inserts really come in handy.

Mayhaw Man · August 27, 2004

Then don't open this very nice nice from John Besh's Restaurant August in New Orleans. Flash and music. But I like it. I'm like that.

hannnah · August 27, 2004

Argh! My other big pet peeve (and the reason I no longer have a Gourmet subscription!)

All you have to do is send an email to or phone any magazine's circulation department, and they'll happily stop sending you stinky inserts.

jackal10 · August 27, 2004

http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com

FOr those who don't know it, this site tries to teach good web design by live examples of awfulness collected from the wild

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

Ooooh, Stovetop, what wealth! Thank you for posting all these!

Toronto Web Sites

• Oliver Bonacini: I love the black background though it's usually not a favorite choice

• By Mark: break out the electrodes, the music made me leave immediately.

• Bodega: Except for the MUSIC and FRENCH BABBLING in the intro (apportez les électrodes!), I like this very much. Especially nice is the little photo section. Not pretentious, very nice.

• Centro: This is the first site I've seen with "Famous Patrons" in its navigation. Hilariously, they show Jerry Lee Lewis (or is it Phyllis Diller?!) before Bill Clinton.

• Allens: Interesting concept (you go through a book), but I'm not sure they executed it very well.

• Dufflet: I actually watched the entire Flash, and I thought the single musical note was very charming.

• Jamie Kennedy: simple, elegant. Nice.

• Acqua: Apportez les électrodes! That site got annoying very quickly. Too much effort and not enough delivery. Not horrible, but a B-minus at best.

• A la carte Catering: too bland for me.

Vancouver websites

• "C": Oh, double plus very ungood. Not unattractive, but A) electrodes are warranted; B) "How would you like to enter C: the room, the cuisine, the experience?" (I think I'll leave, thank); C) the site doesn't work. The navigation is broken. So my grade? "C"-minus.

• Havana: I don't get it.

• West: Now we're talking. Beautiful. The way they imprinted "west" on the photographs on the top, so that it appears that you're looking through frosted glass, is very nice. No electrodes, no Flash: wonderfully done. (And I know that chef rocks! Note: the last link "Our restaurants" goes to a Flash site...with music. No, no, no, say it isn't so!) Grade = A!

• Auberge: I like the initial photo, evocative of other times, but it took nearly ten seconds for anything to happen, and then the finger-snapping and ooo'ing and whistling made me think I was on the Loveboat. Entering the web site is a mystery, because you land in the Canadian phone book. What the?

• Quattro: I had a little problem with the navigation in one of my browsers but I do like the colors (red and pumpkin). Appetizing, but the layout leaves something to be desired.

• Toptable: Electrodes, please! NO MUSIC ON WEB SITES! Aside from that, I really like how the second page loads, with the changing photograph in the upper left corner.

raincity: very nice. The colors are soothing, cool, and yet welcoming. I don't much care for the "dancing photographs" because they're scaled back in color...why? But overall, a very nice design. Classic.

Whistler Web pages

• Rimrock: Sorry, this one doesn't flip my skirt. I'm sure they're doing good work, but the web site is not attractive. Blurry photos don't look artistic, just blurry, and that bright blue-purple is just way too much color for the page. Ouch.

• Valdisere: I sat through the Flash. This is an unusual design: there is yet another page after the Flash where you choose your next page to visit. I went to "Restaurant," and clicked "Close up" at the top of the page. It's another piece of Flash, used effectively. Nice photos. Interesting choices that work on that site, though I'd never have implemented them.

• Apres: Fabulously done. No Flash. Just clear, beautiful work. A+!

• Araxi: Beautiful colors. The moving text on the top graphic distracted me from the content...like trying to read a billboard when you're traveling.

• Umberto: Well, I'd eat there because he's Italian (and what a great face!), but the web site doesn't do it for me. They use frames, and I loathe frames. But believe me, if I ever get to Whistler, I'm looking that guy up.

• Bearfoot: well, the navigation is kind of doowackadoo, but the place is definitely compelling. The Photo Gallery needs some help: show the restaurant

Edmonton web sites

• La Boheme: Again, another place I would visit despite the web site. All those jaggedy letters need ant-aliasing (smoothing), and it's just unattractive in every regard. But I would go there in a heartbeat, because it looks like the Host (Ernst Eder) looks charming.

• Hardware grill: nice and simple.

• Un heardof: Needs more photos. Too barren.

• Jacks grill: Very nice scheme, though some work on the navigation would be good. All links should be available on all pages.

• centurygrill: Are they kidding? Initial Flash at 1265K? I've got DSL and I'm twiddling my thumbs. Will it be worth it? IT WILL NOT. (BYOE: Bring Your Own Electrodes). No one should call themselves "HIP." The whole presentation smacks of stock photography and marketing. They also have "CONCEPT" in the navigation, and that probably needs special electrodes. I do like how they present their menus, though. Oooh, points off for not using a spellchecker. ("Please click to view our Private Dinning [sic] Lunch Menu.")

• Normands: Ouch over and over. Again, that I would eat there is a triumph of spirit over matter, because that is one seriously unattractive web site.

• the Creperie: Tasty menus, but the photos are sad. So dismal.

Stovetop, what a great service you provided for your local community. Thank you for taking the time to post these. I am really inspired!

So now, dish. Where do you like to eat?

Edited August 28, 2004 by tanabutler (log)

stovetop · August 27, 2004

Wow Tanabutler very quick analysis, you did them all, I will try and have more of an eye and pick through what I have and see what your critical eye will think, I will be more critical myself and find only ones based on your critical eye, hopefully the ones I have found will meet your requirements.

I have so many so if you want I can send you more??

steve

PS what is the copyright for music on web sites, in Canada if you play music in your restaurant you have to Pay Socan money, a web site is a public space so you would think the same legal principle would apply??

Edited August 27, 2004 by stovetop (log)

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

Wow Tanabutler very quick analysis, you did them all, I will try and have more of an eye and pick through what I have and see what your critical eye will think, I will be more critical myself and find only ones based on your critical eye, hopefully the ones I have found will meet your requirements.
I have so many so if you want I can send you more??
steve
PS what is the copyright for music on web sites, in Canada if you play music in your restaurant you have to Pay Socan money, a web site is a public space so you would think the same legal principle would apply??

Sure, post away, Stovetop. Someone just sent me a long list of European sites that I'll go through.

stovetop · August 27, 2004

More Toronto

http://www.fatcat.ca/

http://www.leselect.com/

http://www.libertygroup.com/index1.html

http://www.canoerestaurant.com/intro_f.htm

http://www.spoonrestaurant.com/home.html

http://www.oisioyster.com/

http://www.marcels.com/

West coast

http://www.shelterrestaurant.com/welcome.htm

http://www.thetemple.ca/

http://www.lecole.ca/

http://www.canoebrewpub.com/\

http://www.paprika-bistro.com/index.php?file=menu

http://www.taucalearesort.com/restaurant.htm

http://www.hastingshouse.com/

http://www.asnugharbourinn.com/600/index.asp

http://www.eaglenook.com/

http://www.nimmobay.com/

http://www.poetscove.com/

http://www.allseasonscafe.com/

http://www.frenchlaundry.com/

GG Mora · August 27, 2004

Good:

Babbo. Neat, clean, fun, easy to get around, full of interesting info.

French Laundry. Lovely, understated, seems to accurately reflect the sensibilities of each of the restaurants.

Bad:

Smokejacks, Burlington, VT. Annoying music, color scheme that has nothing to do with food, bad cut-rate photography. I boldy forged ahead, though, since this is a place I want to try when I'm next in Burlington. Once you get into it, it's decent, except for that awful purple.

Web Pages That Suck. Sorry, I think this web page sucks. It's ugly, and his placement of links to support his (reasonable and helpful) arguments is awkward and confusing.

tanabutler · August 27, 2004

Good:
Babbo. Neat, clean, fun, easy to get around, full of interesting info.
French Laundry. Lovely, understated, seems to accurately reflect the sensibilities of each of the restaurants.
Bad:
Smokejacks, Burlington, VT. Annoying music, color scheme that has nothing to do with food, bad cut-rate photography. I boldy forged ahead, though, since this is a place I want to try when I'm next in Burlington. Once you get into it, it's decent, except for that awful purple.
Web Pages That Suck. Sorry, I think this web page sucks. It's ugly, and his placement of links to support his (reasonable and helpful) arguments is awkward and confusing.

Agreed on all counts. Especially that "Web Pages That Suck" is atrociously ugly.

French Laundry's site is so elegant. Just perfect.

tanabutler · August 28, 2004

I went through a list of dozens of web sites yesterday and culled these three as being magical. Beyond the flash and the music, these three sites made me want to go pack my suitcases and go there, instantly.

• Akalare

Special dispensation: no electrodes because the music is so delicate and perfect for the mood. And special dispensation for the Flash.

Oh my goodness. I want to move into that restaurant and maybe even marry Pedro Subijana. Every detail is simply perfect. Look how they did the map. (I do maps like that myself, but not so elaborately. It's brilliant.)

Simply put: one of the most perfect web sites I've ever seen, but that's purely emotional because it's how it made me feel. Like I want to pack my bags and go NOW.

• Michel-Bras

I love this site in spite of my Flash-weary self. I most especially love the section "discover the artisans." I'm a little disappointed that they don't have photos of the herbs or flowers, but only b/w drawings. Still, I love the site beyond reason. Another "let me pack my bags now" site for me.

• Olivier-Roellinger

I don't mind the music, I don't mind the sound of the ocean waves. It's so beautiful.

I love that site completely and utterly: it has a mood that comes from place. It is not a building.

I'm gone to San Francisco for the day but have lots of notes from yesterday. More to come.

Edited August 28, 2004 by tanabutler (log)

chromedome · August 28, 2004

I went through most of those Edmonton sites before I moved here, scoping out potential workplaces.

I knew about Jack's, Unheardof, and Hardware before I ever started. Didn't think I had a hope in hell of getting in at Hardware, which has been borne out by my local contacts. When I got to the Century Grill website, I just about puked. Holy Crap!! I eliminated them from my list of possibilities immediately. Any company that could concentrate such a high level of wrongness on their website was a compay I didn't want to work for (also borne out by my local contacts).

I do freelance research, which means I spend a lot of time grubbing around badly-designed websites looking for info. Flash is a personal bugbear of mine. When will people figure out that Flash and usability exist on a continuum? More Flash=less usable.

Some major players have been guilty of this. I remember last year one of the CIA Prochef site's "Worlds of Flavour" offerings was just appalling. The menu options were represented by unlabelled, moving (??!!??) photos. To follow your choices, you had to track a photo with your mouse until the rollover text popped up, by which time there was little opportunity to read it - never mind select it - before the photo scrolled off the screen and you had to start over at the other side.

Gotta wonder what they were thinking!

Website design is a lot like cooking, I guess. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you don't know what I mean, check out a student cooking competition some time. :raz:

Tess · August 28, 2004

I hate sites that start uploading pdf files without warning when you click what you think is just going to be a link.

I also hate it when you're looking for a menu on the site and can't find it and keep clicking on things that sound likely, like "Our Cuisine," and you leave not even knowing whether they have menus or not.

serge · August 28, 2004

Hi Tana,

Have you seen these sites ?

http://www.akelarre.net/

http://www.alain-ducasse.com/

http://www.alain-passard.com/FR/ouverture_flash.htm

http://www.alsorriso.com/

http://www.arzak.es/

http://www.bastide-moustiers.com/Bastide/

http://www.bernard-loiseau.com/

http://www.bocuse.fr/

http://www.calandre.com/

http://www.chevredor.com/

http://www.citronelledc.com/

http://www.cordeillanbages.com/

http://www.cotesaintjacques.com/

http://www.davittorio.com/

http://www.enotecapinchiorri.com/

http://www.frenchlaundry.com/

http://www.georgesblanc.com/

http://www.hameaualbert.fr/

http://www.homesteadinn.com/hs/intro.htm

http://www.hotelducentenaire.fr/

http://www.jardindessens.com/

http://www.leondelyon.com/

http://www.marcveyrat.fr/

http://www.michel-bras.com/

http://www.michelrostang.com/

http://www.moulin-mougins.com/

http://www.oasis-raimbault.com/

http://www.olivier-roellinger.com/anglais/

http://www.perebise.com/

http://www.petitnice-passedat.com/

http://www.philippe-rochat.ch/

http://www.pic-valence.com/

http://www.pierre-gagnaire.com/

http://www.pierreorsi.com/#

http://www.reservebeaulieu.com/

http://www.steirereck.at/

I agree with you. Sites are flashing too much. It's like a dish with tooooooooo much salt !

What I like the best in a site is simplicity, simplicity and simplicity. That's the challenge for a site's designer.

tanabutler · August 29, 2004

I hate sites that start uploading pdf files without warning when you click what you think is just going to be a link.
I also hate it when you're looking for a menu on the site and can't find it and keep clicking on things that sound likely, like "Our Cuisine," and you leave not even knowing whether they have menus or not.

I agree about the PDF thing, Tess. If you're not using a browser that reveals (in its footbar) what you're clicking on. It's good, if you link to certain kinds of files (PDF, large images, etc.) to include the file type and file size.

As to your second post, I can understand not posting menus. Many of these sites that I've seen actually don't have a set menu...because they rely completely on what is ready that day, that week. I have a client like that myself, and I encourage him to post a menu of recent items that illustrate the chef's imagination. Call it "swatches," if you will.

tanabutler · August 29, 2004

Note: Serge is the one who provided me with that spectacular list of sites...I went through them all and made notes, but preferred to spotlight the three that I thought had a noteworthy presentation. (Thank you, Serge, so much!)

After having spent ten hours on this work yesterday (because I am doing research), I swam in images of beautiful food...luckily with no music.

This is a great exercise for me, and hopefully some of these suggestions can go out into the world and influence sites. If I could wave my magic wand, it would be to diminish bad photography. Hey, there's another reason to kill flash: flash photography in the hands of amateurs, of which I am one, should be disallowed on professional web sites. The second wave (or twitch of the nose, tinka tinka tink) would be to make sure that prices are posted. People who don't post prices, no matter what the item, are losing business one way or another.

I find this same thing with vacation rentals and certain kinds of lodging. Apparently some people with think, "If I post the price, I will scare someone away." Do you want to know who's scared,or uncomfortable with a variety of feelings? The person who arrives at a restaurant and finds it's twice as much as he'd expected. Try p*ssed off.

I can hear the Thurston Howell IIIs now: "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it." Um, no. But if you're not going to post your prices, then kindly have the nerve to post that quote on your website so we'll know you're pandering to the obscenely rich, the mildly rich with a competitive disorder, and others like that.

Clearly this must violate some principle of good manners, for the patron of a restaurant to dare to be curious about the prices of things. But this thread ("Feeling ripped off in OC, $65 "special" in Laguna") got my goat.

At the end of each show, "Real Time" on HBO, Bill Maher calls for "New Rules." My new rule is that every single server, when describing a special, would tell you its cost. If you have to ask them the price, you get it for free.

Edited August 29, 2004 by tanabutler (log)

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