Richmond, Shanghainese Food, Xiaolong Bao

[canucklehead]

Butter

Keith is right - parking is insane. And if you go to the public market - be prepared for a bit of culture shock. It is pretty grungy - but I don't think unsanitary. Feel free to season the food with hot sauce and vinegar if you feel it needs it. Acid will help cut some of the richness and lift the flavours.

As for your experience with Long's - I have not been so I cannot comment - but I am curious to check it out. I think that your issues of the food all being "white" is not uncommon. I have had friends who when they first had dim sum did not like it because it seemed very 'wet' to them because everything that was ordered was either steamed or boiled.

Part of the trick of ordering at Chinese restaurants knowing how to balance your order - that is why Chinese people like eating in larger groups - it increases the variety. Next time you order - try getting things that have different cooking methods (ie steamed, stir fried, braised, deep fried, etc..) to give the meal variety. For Shanghainese food - try the pan fried green onion cakes (ask for the thin kind). Kind of like a flat bread with green onions kneaded through it.

Xiaolongbao is a classic - but like I said, if you don't like steamed food - try the Wo Tip - or Chinese Gyoza - which are little more savory and crisp. You should dip these dumplings in the dark vinegar to help cut the richness.

Good luck with the Richmond Public Market.

Edited March 15, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[Keith Talent]

If I was unscrupulous I'd suggest parking at Richmond Centre and hoofing it a couple blocks, maybe check out new trends in khaki at The Gap on your way out if you need to assuage your guilt. There's also Save on Foods half a block to the north with convienent parking, but it may be unethical to suggest parking there, going in the entrance, then out the exit, watching closely for the distinctive red Imperial Parking employee windbreakers the whole time.

I'll go to Shanghai Wind this week one night for dinner, report pending. It's somewhere that's been on my try soon list for ages.

There's a new restaurant called Shanghai River on the north side of Westminister Highway, just west as opposed to east of Number Three Road. It has been busy since the moment it opened, three or four months, reasonably large on the ground floor of a new apartment building. I've meant to go for lunch, but the crowds milling around always dissaude me.

[Ling]

^My parents have been to Shanghai River and said the food was OK, but not worth the crowds. I don't think they're going back.

[Tough Cookie]

I am hesitant to mention this Shanghainese restaurant as it is already always packed at night and the place is quite small...but Shanghai Wind is IMO the best for xiaolongbao.  Their other dishes are great as well, but many of my Shanghainese friends even agree that the xlb is pretty close to Shanghai standards.  It's on no.3 rd in Richmond across from Richmond Centre in a little strip mall type place.

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I absolutely agree with you - the xiao long bao is to die for at Shanghai Wind (as long as you don't mind that the place is a total hole in the wall). The xiao long bao at the Shanghai River is pretty good (slightly more expensive for the nicer surroundings), but a distant second to Shanghai Wind.

Will try the stall at Richmond Public Market for a comparison...

Edited March 16, 2005 by Tough Cookie (log)

[Ling]

I posted about Ba Guo Bu Yi in another thread, but it deserves a mention here too, for xiao long bao. (Located in the strip mall on Park Road, the one with the Dairy Queen.)

[Keith Talent]

We went to Shanghai Wind last night. What a find! The Talent Family has a new local.

Started with soup buns, or juicy pork buns as they're called on the (english) menu, or xiao long bao which I can bring down the house attempting to order in Shanghai-ese. Buns arrived quicky. I've done some stupid stuff in my day. I'm pleased to add letting greed entice me to cram a whole soup bun in my mouth. The distance at Shanghai Wind between your table and the steamer is about ten feet. Do the math. It was greedy and stupid. My tongue hurts.

They were full of soup, had a tender skin yet resilient enough to hold in the soup. Seems every table starts with an order of these. The correct way to eat is to cradle the juicy goodness in your spoon, nip the top of the bun off with your teeth and daintely suck the soup out, then eat the rest. At least that was the fashion last night, maybe the place was full of farmers born in barns with open doors and that's the completely wrong way, I dunno, I do know it's better than putting the whole thing into your gaping maw.

Then we had the beef roll, pretty standard, with the exception that the beef looked and tasted like corned beef that had a few sichuan peppercorns thrown into the corning solution.

Next was fried beef noodle, the only dish that wasn't a total hit. Seemed more cantonese to me. Fried crispy egg noodles, bok choy and that strange beef you sometimes get that is waaay too tender, almost toi the point of being mushy.

Fried dumplings, stuffed with chicken. Again excellent. Slightly greasy, but very savory filling.

Last came the oddest dish, and maybe the best. Turnip cake. Recommended by our waitress. Three balls show up, slightly smaller than a tennis ball. Out come the scissors and they're cut in half. They're wrapped in a pie crust so flaky that Aunt Bee would take to blue ribbon in the Mayberry 4th of July Apple pie contest. Sesame seeds are on the outside bottom of the balls. Inside is a weird savory mixture of pickled turnip (or maybe daikon, or some other turnip-ish asian vegtable) slivers of ham and green onions. This is a case of perfect synergy.Doesn't sound like much on paper, but in reality is so delicious that you're jabbing chopsticks at your dining companions to get the last one (kids included!)

Add a bowl of steamed white rice for the monsters, who proceed to ignore it and cram the old mans dumplings into their kool-aid stained mugs and you have a pretty good dinner. Twenty-six bucks, with tax!

The place is tiny, and very busy. As denziens of the Richmond Chisnese restaurants, we're accustomed to eating alone. Pretty much everywhere is empty at six. Not here. We were hungry early last night, rolled up at about five thirty, place was damn near full. Tables turned quickly and frequently. We saw something I've never witnessed outside Paris, two groups being seated at one large table. Anything to avoid a wait. I'll admit, I'd not be too keen, but now I've seen it done here, it wouldn't bother me. Sometimes the North American sense of personal space is a little odd.

Dumplings are all made and cooked at the front of the restaurant, everything done completely by hand.

Client base is one hundred percent Chinese we were the only caucasians. It's an old chesnut but still seems to hold up.

[butter]

We went to Shanghai Wind last night. What a find! The Talent Family has a new local.

I'm pleased to add letting greed entice me to cram a whole soup bun in my mouth. The distance at Shanghai Wind between your table and the steamer is about ten feet. Do the math. It was greedy and stupid. My tongue hurts.

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Thank you for the warning and the eating technique advice. I have a problem called "neko no shita" (Japanese for "cat's tongue") and thus, always have to wait for my food to cool down a bit before eating. I feel your pain. This will be my next destination when I go to Richmond...will post a review although I don't think it will be as entertaining as yours.

[Mooshmouse]

I have a problem called "neko no shita" (Japanese for "cat's tongue") and thus, always have to wait for my food to cool down a bit before eating. I feel your pain.

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Could you elaborate on this phenomenon a little further? Inquiring minds want to know.

Gracias!

[canucklehead]

Keith

Thanks for the great report - yet another place for me to go on my quest for the best xiaolongbao. Your described eating technique is perfect. I like to pour a little vinegar into the dumpling after sucking out the soup. Ugghhh - why do I live on the North Shore where I cannot think of ONE decent chinese joint?!

I am glad that you enjoyed the turnip cakes. I had them when I was working in Shanghai and only recently have then been available here. The pastry is flaky and light and the filling is a perfect savory foil. Mmmmmm - they are available in at a number of places (including Shangha Yan Yun on Main St.) but yours sounded exemplary. They can be rich and I usually can't have more then one.

Not sure on how your search for Japanese food goes in Richmond - but there are still culinary compensations for living in the bog.

[Keith Talent]

Keith

  I like to pour a little vinegar into the dumpling after sucking out the soup. 

Not sure on how your search for Japanese food goes in Richmond - but there are still culinary compensations for living in the bog.

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Soup out, vinegar in? That's so crazy it just might work. Actually it sounds like an excellent idea.

And if you're an eater, and I'm not being funny here, I honestly beleive this, there is no better place to live in Vancouver than Richmond. Architecturaly, we could be faulted. Astheticly, again, we could be faulted. Perhaps we have the odd problem with urban planning. Transit, not so good.

BUT, there is nowhere I'd rather be on a Wednesday night looking for a quick simple cheap dinner. Friends in the city are constantly bemoaning the fact that they don't have even a tenth the choice of options we do. Chinatown is a pain in the ass because of parking. So is south Main.

Add the fact that Richmond residents have the longest life expectancy in North America, well actually that has nothing to do with anything, I just felt like throwing it out. Richmond still has the most vibrant exciting and competitive restaurant restaurant culture in the GVRD.

[BCinBC]

And if you're an eater, and I'm not being funny here, I honestly beleive this, there is no better place to live in Vancouver than Richmond. Architecturaly, we could be faulted. Astheticly, again, we could be faulted. Perhaps we have the odd problem with urban planning. Transit, not so good.

BUT, there is nowhere I'd rather be on a Wednesday night looking for a quick simple cheap dinner. Friends in the city are constantly bemoaning the fact that they don't have even a tenth the choice of options we do. Chinatown is a pain in the ass because of parking. So is south Main.

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Never am I as frustrated as I am when driving in Richmond (not that there's anywhere in the lower mainland that's a pleasure to drive, unless it's 3 AM and the roads are clear... and this is a subject for another website).

But yes when my Dad lived in Richmond, there was never a problem finding a decent yet cheap meal. On the flip side, I think that because the competition is so fierce and the pricing so cheap, Richmond is also the home of the highest turnover of restaurants. How often do you drive by a place you ate at last week, only to see a For Lease sign in the window? Usually nothing wrong with the food, just the whim of the consumer. Or someone opened across the street with $2 dim sum before 11 AM.

[Tough Cookie]

We went to Shanghai Wind last night. What a find! The Talent Family has a new local.

How does the xiao long bao compare to those at Ba Guo Bu Yi or any other places that you have tried? Would like to hear your comparisons.

[butter]

I have a problem called "neko no shita" (Japanese for "cat's tongue") and thus, always have to wait for my food to cool down a bit before eating. I feel your pain.

←

Could you elaborate on this phenomenon a little further? Inquiring minds want to know.

Gracias!

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Cat's never eat really hot food. Blood temperature of a freshly killed rat is about as hot as it gets.

[Mooshmouse]

I have a problem called "neko no shita" (Japanese for "cat's tongue") and thus, always have to wait for my food to cool down a bit before eating. I feel your pain.

←

Could you elaborate on this phenomenon a little further? Inquiring minds want to know.

←

Cat's never eat really hot food. Blood temperature of a freshly killed rat is about as hot as it gets.

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Ack! Thanks... I think...

Not so much with food, but I'm also one who can't drink hot, hot coffee or tea, or my tongue will feel the aftereffects for the rest of the day. Now warm sake... that's the right temperature!

[Keith Talent]

How does the xiao long bao compare to those at Ba Guo Bu Yi or any other places that you have tried?  Would like to hear your comparisons.

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We ate once at Ba Guo Bu Yi, and contarary to everyone elses opinion, wasn't that enchanted by the place. Food was average. It was early days for them though and I'd ceratinly be willing to give it another go. We went for Sichuan as they advertise, and found it very average. Why call yourself Szechaun if you're going to specialize in Shanghiaese? The Chinese are a complete mystery. Is it not like opening a restaurant called Brasserie Paris and specializing in sushi? And more importantly, if a group of dumb looking caucasians come in, does it not behoove them as restauranteurs to inform clueless consumers that "we're actually just kidding about the whole sichuan thing, we specialize in soup buns, try those instead, our tan tan is just Sappro Ichiban and chili oil."

The buns at the market are not as good as Shanghai Wind, skin is thicker, soup less savoury, construction less sturdy. Still very good. Gary Soup is a far more descriminating critic than I, and if he says they're good, they're good.

Both places are far far superior to any other dim sum versions I've ever had. Again, and this seems to be key, lots of broth encased in the buns, which you rarely get at the regular dim sum places.

[butter]

Again, and this seems to be key, lots of broth encased in the buns, which you rarely get at the regular dim sum places.

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Broth in buns, is this only with Shanghai buns?

[Keith Talent]

I shouldn't say bun, it's not a bun. it's a dim sum wrapper. Similar to the casing around a wonton or shu mai or even gyoza, except slightly thicker.

Purse shaped, pinched closed at the top, meat filling is pinched into the wrappers and closed, apparently the broth cooks out the meat during steaming solving the mystery of how the get the soup inside the dumpling. Well made examples are slighlty translucent, and hang heavily when picked up, kinda like water ballons, except instead of being filled with water, they're filled with molten meat juice, and you only dare pick them up at an establishment who's closure techniques and dough making skills you really trust, otherwise soup'll be everywhere.

[Ling]

I thought that the broth is set with gelatin, then placed into the wrapper with the meat, and then melts while in the steamer.

[Keith Talent]

I thought someone linked a Tim Pawsey review of Ba Guo Bu Yi somewhere in this thread, my reading skills are going to crap, I can't find it. Anyway in the review I read earlier this week about the place, the proprietess (is there a femine verson of proprietor? Is proprietor a gender specific term? Screw it, it is now,) said the most difficult part was knowing how much broth to add to the mixture, so that the right amount sweats out. It also said something to the effect that the broth was based on pig skin. Mmm, pig skin soup.

The gelatine idea sounds good, but I'd see the flaw being that in sub-tropic Shanghai in the summer, the gellatin wouldn't set due to the high temperature/humidy, so don't see how this method could have evolved.

[Ling]

I don't know if this is the "authentic" method, but this recipe calls for gelatin in the broth. http://recipeview.com/Chinese/Chinese1422.htm

[butter]

I thought that the broth is set with gelatin, then placed into the wrapper with the meat, and then melts while in the steamer.

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Off to the Asian boards I go to ask.

[Ben Hong]

The Chinese board is the one where people who eat and cook Chinese food hang out.

[mangez]

Another good Xiaolong Bao source is the food court at the new Aberdeen Centre, on the top level on your right hand side. We troed it a month ago amd it was A+. Returned last weekend it was still B+ with a slight 'porky' taste if you know what I mean.

The drunken chicken at the Shanghainese restaurant, Northern Delicacy one floor below was also first class, A in my books. They also serving B+ "Dam Dam" noodles.

One final interesting find at the Aberdeen Centre Mall was the shaved ice dessert outlet also at the food court! Talking about finely shaved ice, absolutely impressive.

[butter]

The Chinese board came through. Let the testing begin.

Anyone who is interested in "How to get the broth in the bun":

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=64058

[Keith Talent]

Doh!

Gellatin? Who knew? (Aside from Ling of course.) I'm off top console my self with a half dozen Xiaolong Bao.