Dave the Cook's Kitchen Reno On the Cheap

[mklynch]

In my last kitchen, short on space, I used a 5' stainless prep table from a restaurant supply house for about $100. You can get them with a couple drawers and all my pots fit underneath. With tall barstools you can eat on it and it's a great prep area without the cost of a butcher block top.

I've got my dream kitchen now and the table is on the deck with the grills and smokers and is weather proof and still a great asset.

Just a start..........MK

[snowangel]

I would love to hear the recommendations for the best (or most favored) electric stove -- whether glass-top or traditional burners, I don't care.

Gas just isn't a viable option.

TIA and sorry if I'm hijacking a thread.  Should I post a separate thread?  Want to be PC!

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Check out This Thread for more info on the glass top electric stoves.

[Dave the Cook]

Wow. What a lot of great stuff. Thanks, everyone.

First, an update: you guys said paint the cabinets, so I did, sort of. They've been disassembled and primed, and I'll do a coat of paint tomorrow or Sunday morning, using some semi-gloss that still appears to be viable. There was also a hint or two that the wallpaper had to go -- enough of a hint that I felt I could act on my own inclination -- so it did. The walls are now a pale butter yellow (also a remnant). I'll total it up later, but so far, all I've bought has been a roll of masking tape, a 4-inch paint roller and cover, and a gallon of primer -- all told, maybe 30 bucks, for what looks like a huge improvement in the way the room feels. So far, so good, budget-wise and value-wise. I also took off the door at the lower part of the drawing -- it goes to the dining room, and never should have been there.

There's a bunch of stuff to cover, and I'll try to capture it all, but I'll probably miss something. If I do, and it's important to the advice you're offering, bring it up again, please.

How soon -- ASAP. I'll be doing all the work, unless I can find some conscripts. I'm pretty handy, but I can't do finish carpentry. If woodwork will be visible, I'll have to hire someone else to do it.

Priorities: lighting, storage, workspace. These three are about equal, with aesthetics not too far behind. I'm a big believer in "form follows function," meaning (grossly oversimplifying), if it works well, it can't help looking good. On the other hand, I also like wit and a bit of whimsy, and I love conceptual design. (I once designed a trade show exhibit that was a stylized version of a wastewater treatment plant. It was constructed from components used to build municipal playgrounds.) I refuse to be concerned about the appliances. I'm too cheap to throw out things that work, so the dishwasher and the range are safe for now. On the other hand, I insisted that the seller buy a warranty for the major stuff. So I'll live with the range, while secretly hoping it dies. Based on a quick survey at Home Depot, I can do full undercabinet lighting for about $100.

There is gas in the house, but not in the kitchen. I haven't checked, but I suspect it would be very expensive to make a gas range happen. The water heater and furnaces, both of which use gas, are upstairs. So is the laundry room -- I use "room" in a very liberal sense, as it's literally a closet.

High shelves are not possible, as there is no such thing as "high" in this room. The ceiling is just a little over seven feet, except where the lighting is. It goes up a foot above the lenses you see in the ceiling. Speaking of lighting, no one has mentioned the ceiling fan, which must have been over a kitchen table in an earlier incarnation. It has to go. But that leaves a switched junction box in the ceiling -- something to keep in mind for lighting design.

I can't discard the idea of eating in the kitchen. My original plan didn't include it, but it turns out to be non-negotiable.

Loews says they don't sell the kitchen stuff here. But there are a number of outlets in the area, and I will check them out.

Based mainly on what I've read here, I'm considering something like this:

A -- A 2' x 6' worktable extending from the wall next to the door into the room. Something like this, though I'd hope to find something similar at a lower cost. If equipped with baskets, the shelves can hold onions, potatoes, tableware, linens, you name it.

B -- A 36" or 42" drop-leaf table at the right wall. The worktable leaves enough room for two chairs. It's possible that I'll cut an opening above the table. The opening would face the living room, and would make a big difference in the apparent size of the kitchen. This wouldn't necessarily come out of my budget -- negotiations are underway. On the other hand, this is carpentry I can do, since my ugly technique will be hidden behind sheetrock. It wouldn't cost much, with free labor.

C -- A chest like this to hold gadgets and stuff. I think I can get one used for about $100. There's room on top for the toaster and microwave (one of Fat Guy's disposable models, already purchased from Target).

Thanks again, everyone.

[Fat Guy]

Table A's positioning sounds great. I didn't realize you'd have that kind of width. That's excellent. And if you can get a pot rack suspended up over that table, you'll be golden -- ideal positioning for cooking and prep, since you can work from either side of the table.

If you're considering an opening from B to the LR, why not make it a full-on pass-through with a counter that you can sit on either side of?

C is an offbeat, interesting, logical choice. To go with the tool chest look, you could also consider putting pegboard above it.

Don't forget you will need a place for trash. Always best to design that in, otherwise you wind up with your trash can in an inconvenient place.

[halland]

Dave,

I've been lazy so I'm just now getting around to replying and all the good ideas have been taken!

Anyway on Ikea, while I think their furniture is crap, their kitchen cabinets and the cabinetry system are great. If you ever think of replacing everything, do yourself the favor and look at the cabinets. (I have to say this to everyone I meet, but I apologize for digressing.) Ikea sells butcher block counter top. No its not 2" thich Boos Block Maple, but it is 1 1/4" thick beech (or birch) -- beech is what is commonly used in Europe. I think a 6' run of countertop is around $80, and countertop is easily replaced. If you're like me then you'll just cut on the countertop and ditch all those stupid cutting boards (except one for meat).

If you can be patient regarding the stove, spend some time looking at the Atlanta Re-Store (there may be others as well). I got my current kitchen stove at the Seattle Re-Store -- a gas Jenn Air range -- for $200. Its not the most powerful stove in the world, but for $200, its hard to go wrong. I see a lot of newer (less than 5 yrs old) electric induction ranges (the ones with glass that turn red) for very cheap -- I think everyone is upgrading to the newest 12 burner Wolf in their custom kitchens.

If you need a micro, LG sells a microwave with a built in toaster. At least it saves one outlet. You can see them here.

Also, I'd be surprised if it costs a plumber more than $300 to get gas into your kitchen. Depending on how comfortable you are with this, you could do it yourself, though I probably shouldn't advocate that.

Hal

[Malawry]

The backs of IKEA tables like that are usually rather unattractive. I'd try for something without a back, that's intended to be accessed from either side. I know you said it's more than you want to spend anyway but thought I'd mention it anyhow.

[msphoebe]

Thank you, snowangel!

[marie-louise]

.... Also, I'd be surprised if it costs a plumber more than $300 to get gas into your kitchen.  Depending on how comfortable you are with this, you could do it yourself, though I probably shouldn't advocate that.

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I've always wondered about that, but your estimate makes sense. Assuming you have gas at your house, and there's a crawl space under your house, it is just a matter of the plumber running pipe to the area of the house under the kitchen, then attaching a flexible gas line through the floor. (At least in California, it is code to have a flexible section of gas line nearest the appliance to decrease the possibility of the line breaking in an earthquake.)

If you have to tap into a gas line all the way out at the street, buy and install a propane tank, or get gas into a room of a high-rise apartment, then I'm sure the cost is much more.

[andiesenji]

I had to go to Lowe's early this morning for a couple of electrical outlets and took a few minutes to look at the kitchen "carts" which is how they describe the work tables.

There is one with a thick butcherblock top and two good-sized drawers, that is 24 x 40 overall, with one deep and one shallow heavy wire shelves underneath and the deep one on the bottom is deep enough to hold baking pans, 1/2 sheet size on edge, It wouldn't be difficult to make criss/cross heavy picture wire dividers for part of it to hold baking pans and leave part of it for deep pots. You could get two of these and when they were parked together next to the wall they wouldn't take up that much room and when needed for work area you could pull them into various configurations, L-shaped or end to end or side by side or with an aisle in between.

You could drill into the butcher block top on the back side of the table top and put in heavy duty hooks for hanging two or three skillets. One end has a towel bar but the other end is also free.

They have an industrial look but are attractive enough to look good in just about any kitchen.

I like the heavy wire shelves, they won't collect dust.

[Fat Guy]

I agree the IKEA table would not be the way to go, cost- or aesthetics-wise. I would suggest going to yard sales and flea markets and looking for a piece of furniture that was intended to be a buffet/sideboard and is in totally crappy cosmetic shape. If you get one that was made back in the day, it has a chance of having a finished back. You should be able to find one with all manner of drawers, shelves, and cabinets underneath. Then take that bad boy out in the yard, strip it, paint it, and poly the heck out of the top or, even better, find a piece of stone that fits and glue it on. If the back isn't finished, painting will probably make it look finished enough, plus you can secure a towel bar, knife rack, hooks, or whatever to cover it up.

[marie-louise]

Thank you Halland!!!

I have never heard of the Habitat for Humanity's Re-Store. It seems there is one in my city as well. I can't tell you how many times over the years that I've felt bad about letting contractors take something I no longer want but is still usable to the dump. I hate the idea of discarding something into landfill just because I want a new or different one. Believe it or not, an appliance salesman told me last year that there was no market for my Wolf Range unless I wanted to sell it on eBay. I've never known how to share my remodeling castoffs until now-and best of all, the money raised will go to a cause I like!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

[Rachel Perlow]

I'd never heard of Re-Store either. Click here to find a list of their locations.

[FL Heat]

I don't have a lot to add, but don't forget to check outlet malls for the whimsical things, as well as completely functional stuff--perhaps not as inexpensive as things might be on EBay (or Overstock.com), but when you need it NOW. . . .I know we got a great deal on some metal "sticks" and hooks and baskets to set on the wall & hold things that just didn't fit anywhere else.

Might not make you feel any better, but I think your kitchen is a great size! (We're in our first house, and it was built in 1940. . .out of 1000 square feet, not much of that is kitchen)

Diana

[Fat Guy]

Re-Store deserves its own thread. What a great place.

[Marlene]

Re-Stores gets it's own thread

[patti]

I was once an avid garage sale hound and I know you can find anything and everything you want, but it can take some time when you're looking for a specific item. In addition to yard sales, you might want to check out flea markets and antique shops. I find antique shops to be an excellent source for well-made old things that are useful to use, wonderful to look at, and often much less expensive than brand new. (I'm not talking about high-end, fine antiquities, which are a whole other story.) Down around these parts, the antique business is mighty slow right now, and there are bargains to be had and deals to be made. Long farm tables, old library tables, sideboards and buffets, as mentioned by Fat Guy, just a nice variety of things that you might be able to find at a much more reasonable price than you can imagine. Good luck with your endeavor!

Edited October 10, 2004 by patti (log)

[andiesenji]

And thrift stores. The Goodwill store here in Lancaster has a large Mission style table in the window right now. I have purchased several things at the store, including two old 2-drawer oak file cabinets ($15.00 each) onto which I placed a slab of marble which I used as a desk in my old kitchen with a draftsman's pad on top, but it also doubled as a pastry work top when needed. Those old oak or maple file cabinets are heavy and will hold a lot of weight. The deep drawers were just the right size for holding a lot of my baking pans.

It is amazing what some people discard.

[Dave the Cook]

I've always wondered about that, but your estimate makes sense. Assuming you have gas at your house, and there's a crawl space under your house, it is just a matter of the plumber running pipe to the area of the house under the kitchen, then attaching a flexible gas line through the floor.

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I'll be checking of course, but this is a condominium built in 1979. No basement, no crawlspace, not even an attic to speak of.

I would suggest going to yard sales and flea markets and looking for a piece of furniture that was intended to be a buffet/sideboard and is in totally crappy cosmetic shape.

I had the same thought (the right dresser would work, too), and spent a good part of the afternoon wandering through flea markets, crappy antique stores and furniture clearance outlets. Most of the ones I found were too low or too shallow. The rest weren't wide enough. The 2' x 6' space is perfect, and I don't want to give any of it back if I can help it. But I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I come across the right thing. I'll start checking thrift stores and yard sales tomorrow. As for the top, I'm thinking half granite or granite tiles, half butcher block. Any thoughts here?

Let's talk pot racks. Unless I come across something at a yard sale, I don't see paying an outrageous price for a piece of nicely bent sheet steel and single-purpose hooks. Any reason I can't cobble something together from steel tubing and heavy-duty S-hooks? Or even a two-foot section of braced, ventilated shelving?

Oh, one more thing: at one of the places I was at today, I noticed a few boxes of vinyl composition tile in a dusty corner. I got a chill, remembering Maggie's checkerboard vision. Sure enough -- two boxes each of red and white at 29 cents per tile. This is decent stuff, too. It's top of the line Domco, which usually goes for about $3 a foot. It's an omen.

[marie-louise]

The 2' x 6' space is perfect, and I don't want to give any of it back if I can help it. But I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I come across the right thing. I'll start checking thrift stores and yard sales tomorrow. As for the top, I'm thinking half granite or granite tiles, half butcher block. Any thoughts here?

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I really like having a big unbroken workspace in my kitchen. I highly recommend that you keep every inch of it-if you looked at the picture of my kitchen, I had about the same amount of counter space as you do. I use this table for everything, and so will you. I would recommend all butcher block-not only do I chop it, I use mine for pastry, pizza dough, you name it. By the way, mine is only 34-inches high, which is a very comfortable height for chopping and kneading. If you buy an antique, make sure it's not too high (or cut down the legs some.)

PS the tiles sound cool! Now whne do we get to see pictures of those painted cabinets?

[Priscilla]

D the C, in a house we lived in some years ago now we had a fantastic pot rack we made from a length of metal fencepost or street-sign post we found in a field while hiking -- you know the type, already has perfect perforations running its whole length. Ours was baked-on-enameled grey, which suited our then-kitchen.

Big old eye hooks in a beam, lengths of chain with quick-links to achieve the proper hanging height, inexpensive threaded j-hooks inserted through the existing holes and held there with bolts to hold all the stuff. It worked, and looked, great!

We left ours industrial-looking -- every room needs a touch of industrial, in my estimation, along with a touch of black -- but one could paint or otherwise tart it up to suit.

Also, as you began above, why NOT a length of Metro shelf, hung from chain with my beloved quick-links? It's certainly strong enough, and has a tremendous amount of potential hanging capacity. A single Metro shelf is something one sees kicking around from time to time, if one finds oneself in used-equipment sorts of places.

Even fake Metro, which I dislike on principle but accept the existence of, would probably suffice, strength-wise, eh?

[halland]

Dave,

Regarding the dressers being too narrow, how about putting two short bookcases , back to back, on one side of the dresser to lengthen it? Slap this counter 73" x 26" counter on the top and whammo you've got storage and bookcases for cookbooks. Want to get crafty, mount it all on a piece of 1" plywood with some heavy duty casters or a mobile base and you've got a rolling island.

With regard to the pot rack, even a 2x2 piece of maple stock with a few screw hooks screwed into it makes a pot rack.

Hal

[fifi]

I'll be checking of course, but this is a condominium built in 1979. No basement, no crawlspace, not even an attic to speak of.

I had the same thought (the right dresser would work, too), and spent a good part of the afternoon wandering through flea markets, crappy antique stores and furniture clearance outlets. Most of the ones I found were too low or too shallow. The rest weren't wide enough. The 2' x 6' space is perfect, and I don't want to give any of it back if I can help it. But I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I come across the right thing. I'll start checking thrift stores and yard sales tomorrow. As for the top, I'm thinking half granite or granite tiles, half butcher block. Any thoughts here?

Let's talk pot racks. Unless I come across something at a yard sale, I don't see paying an outrageous price for a piece of nicely bent sheet steel and single-purpose hooks. Any reason I can't cobble something together from steel tubing and heavy-duty S-hooks? Or even a two-foot section of braced, ventilated shelving?

Oh, one more thing: at one of the places I was at today, I noticed a few boxes of vinyl composition tile in a dusty corner. I got a chill, remembering Maggie's checkerboard vision. Sure enough -- two boxes each of red and white at 29 cents per tile. This is decent stuff, too. It's top of the line Domco, which usually goes for about $3 a foot. It's an omen.

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Half granite and half block might be a great idea. I wonder if you could snag a deal on the granite by using a sink cut out? I have no idea what they do with those things or what it would cost but it may be worth a couple of phone calls. The tiles are certainly an alternative.

My sister suspended some pipes from the ceiling from chains. I can't tell if you have the drop in ceiling tiles but I think it is similar to her ceiling. She had to remove the ceiling sections to get to the joists. Then, I think she just drilled holes in the ceiling tiles and threaded the chain through. Some big S hooks and you are in business. I am thinking that an "industrial" look could be fun. Your tool cabinet has me thinking that. For that look, galvanized pipe, chain and hooks would look cool and be cheap.

OMG! That vinyl tile is the bomb! I have had it in two kitchens now and I LOVE the stuff. It is going into the new house. Red and white check, that red tool cabinet. Man... This could get really cool! You might want to see if Sears has a scratch and dent outlet for the tool cabinet.

[Dave the Cook]

Now whne do we get to see pictures of those painted cabinets?

[halland]

HUGE IMPROVEMENT

You 'tha man!

h

Edited October 10, 2004 by halland (log)

[fifi]

Oooo... Oooo... I just had another idea for your 2x6 table! The "industrial" look had me think of it. What about getting the appropriate sizes of Intermetro shelving, putting together the sizes needed as a base by clamping them together. Then, find something for a top. You could probably do a laminate top (Formica type) pretty cheap. Red Formica! Cool! I have actually had laminate counters for just about all of my cooking life and I actually like them. The price is certainly right.

That shelving is all over the place and you might find some pretty cheap in a second hand restaurant supply store. (I am actually doing this under the side of the island across from the stove in the new house for frequently used pot storage.)

edit to add: I found some cool looking plastic "milk crates" at Garden Ridge for stacking storage in the end of my dining area. They are so cool, I will be using them on the InterMetro shelving in my pantry and that area under the island. They were about $5 apiece!

Edited October 10, 2004 by fifi (log)