Home-made Pie Crust: Tips & Troubleshooting

[eskay]

Thanks

I should mention, I used this recipe again (with a food processor this time) over the thanksgiving weekend. Still awesome.

[lperry]

I made an apple pie yesterday with a vodka crust. I used my regular pie crust recipe (the one on the inside cover of the old checkerboard cookbook ) and just substituted half the water with vodka. It came out great. The dough seemed a little stickier to work with, but rolled fine after a rest in the fridge.

I like the idea of using flavored liqueurs - will the sugar make a difference in texture?

-L

[Baggy]

Depends how much liqueur you add – but in any case the sugar will make the crust more tender.

[gfjane]

I read the article a week or so ago and put it on my "to try" list. It sounds like, from what's been posted here, that it works well with the gliadin in wheat flour. I am wondering, though, if anyone has any thoughts about what this will do to gluten-free (GF) dough. Due to celiac disease, all my baking is with "alternative" flours. I make a very decent pie crust for GF, but am always looking for something to make it better. Unfortunately, most discussions involve gluten and trying to enhance or mitigate the effects. Since I don't have any gliadin in my doughs, I'm not trying to do that.

For pie crust, baking GF is in some ways easier. I don't have to worry about developing the gluten or using low gluten flours - all my flours are. But, contrary to what you'd think, overmixing or overrolling a GF crust does cause it to be tough. Not sure why... I can, however, use more water in my crusts without problems, so maybe the vodka doesn't help at all.

So, just wondering if anyone has any hypotheses around using this technique with GF flours. I will post my results when I get to it, but it will be at least a week or two, given the other things on my proverbial plate.

[Pat W]

I tried the Cook's Illustrated recipe last night. It made a very tasty pie crust.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Pat W (log)

[chickie]

I read the article a week or so ago and put it on my "to try" list.  It sounds like, from what's been posted here, that it works well with the gliadin in wheat flour.  I am wondering, though, if anyone has any thoughts about what this will do to gluten-free (GF) dough.  Due to celiac disease, all my baking is with "alternative" flours.  I make a very decent pie crust for GF, but am always looking for something to make it better.  Unfortunately, most discussions involve gluten and trying to enhance or mitigate the effects.  Since I don't have any gliadin in my doughs, I'm not trying to do that.

For pie crust, baking GF is in some ways easier.  I don't have to worry about developing the gluten or using low gluten flours - all my flours are.  But, contrary to what you'd think, overmixing or overrolling a GF crust does cause it to be tough.  Not sure why...  I can, however, use more water in my crusts without problems, so maybe the vodka doesn't help at all.

So, just wondering if anyone has any hypotheses around using this technique with GF flours.  I will post my results when I get to it, but it will be at least a week or two, given the other things on my proverbial plate.

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I can't imagine it would help or hurt, though for some reason I lean towards hurt.

If your dough is getting tough, it may be the flour mixture you are using, especially if it cntains a gum (like xanthan)

[gfjane]

I can't imagine it would help or hurt, though for some reason I lean towards hurt.

If your dough is getting tough, it may be the flour mixture you are using, especially if it cntains a gum (like xanthan)

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Thanks for your thoughts. I definitely use gum as it wouldn't stay together at all without it. Even with enough of a "sticky" flour like tapioca, Expandex (modified tapioca), sweet rice, or mung bean, they still need a bit.

I never have a "problem" with tough unless I rework it. But, the accepted wisdom is that GF crusts "can't" get tough. I find that, for me, they get tough with rework, just like a gluten crust. It never occured to me to think the gum would be involved in creating a tough crust, but what I know about gums would fit into a grasshopper's brain. Did you have anything in particular in mind, such as about a specific flour/starch?

[emilyr]

I was watching Pushing Daisies tonight (my new favorite show - and great pie shots every week!), and Chuck made her cheese loving aunts (she grew up with them calling the fridge the "cheese box") an apple pie with monastery cheddar cheese in the crust. Last week she made a pear pie with a gruyere crust (pear gruyere hee hee).

I'm just wondering if this would be possible. I'm assuming you'd have to use a fairly soft cheese. Or maybe just something well grated. Would you need to decrease some of the fat in the original recipe to compensate for the cheese? Or increase the flour?

Mmmm . . . I'm just imagining something like a grape pie with a nice brie crust or a mushroom quiche with an asiago crust.

Thanks in advance for help wtih this!

Emily

PS - I love this show - they just referenced They Might Be Giants - "build a little birdhouse in your soul!" - - love it!

[plk]

I've wrapped a meatloaf in a spicy cheddar cheese crust, so sure, you could try it with pie. The recipe I used is in the Pie and Pastry Bible, and I'm pretty sure it used grated cheddar cheese in the dough.

[etalanian]

I've made cheese pie crusts by just adding shredded cheese to my basic pie crust recipe. You shouldn't have any problem.

Eileen

[chickie]

I make my gf pie crust without any gums - it does occasionally split or crack, but just pressing the edges of the split together will fix that. Overworking one with a gum will definately give you toughening issues.

I use an all pupose blend of 1 part potato flour, 1 part tapioca, 2 parts soy or garbanzo bean flor, and 3 parts white rice for pie shells. The white rice gives the bulk, the soy or garbanzo are providing the protein/structure and the tapioca and potato are binding.

[gfjane]

Thanks again. While I love what bean flours can provide in terms of protein, "lightening", and springiness/chew, I don't like the taste at all, so that may be a lot of the difference regarding why gum is more important in my current crust recipe. I tend to use flours that have little or no "stickiness" to them. In pie crust, I used to use a "healthier" blend providing some fiber, but recently have opted for more tenderness with a blend that also had little to keep it together. It stays together for the rolling - it's the cutting and eating that's the problem - it shatters.

That's one of the things I find so fascinating about GF baking - ten people can come up with ten results and all work.

Chickie, are you using an egg at all for protein and binding? I've developed recipes both that do and that don't. My current preference is for one that does.

[Pille]

I've made a cheesy feta and spinach pie, where there's feta in the pie filling and extra grated cheese (cheddar or such like) in the crust - makes it richer, but very satisfying and tasty..

[chickie]

I am trying to get away from soy and using the garbanzo flour more - since my husband has realized he is allergic to soy and the airborne flour will send him into sneezing fits for hours! I haven't noticed the taste, but admittedly I don't do much more then taste a nibble now and then to make sure it tastes OK

I actually don't use any egg protein, because it makes it easier in my particular situation if my gf stuff is completely egg and dairy free as well - it cuts down the total # of products/recipes I have to produce if it fits both bills.

Have you ever experimented with agar or flax seed? that might give you the binding properties you want without the toughening aspect

And YES, gf (and egg and dairy free) baking is so amazing - I love the chemistry of it.

[gfjane]

Different tongues have completely different experiences with bean flours - soy, garbanzo, navy, fava, etc. In our house, all of us (and our extended family) notice any of them and complain. I have found a way to use some navy bean flour (max of 2 T per cup of flour). I soak the beans first, then dry roast them for about 8 hours. They turn slightly tan in color and the taste is completely different when I mill them. I still can't use lots of it, but I can use it.

I do use flax in my breads, but that's about it. I bought some agar agar a few weeks ago to experiment with, but haven't tried it. And, I also found some Methocel by Dow (methylcellulose), but haven't had much luck figuring out how to use it. I posted about it here, but no repsonses yet.

Oh, and to clarify, I don't have tough crust at all if I roll once. It's if you need to gather again and combine that I do. And, I've heard many people on GF forums saying they do this all the time without problem - and they are using xanthan. Not sure if they just don't see "tough" the way I do, or what. But, the crust is not at all tough on the first roll.

It makes sense to make things "free" of several allergens if providing to multiple people. Since I'm simply providing for the one celiac, I don't have to worry about it. I do, though, try to create recipes that are dairy-free, egg free, corn-free etc. so that if I ever need them for someone, I've got them. We have a dairy-free and gluten free family member, one who it corn-free, and two diabetics. It keeps me on my toes to make things that everyone can have.

I wish I had time, I'd experiment with the crust this weekend, but it looks like it'll be at least a week before I can make several crusts side by side and see what happens.

[moreace01]

I swear America's Test Kitchen has a recipe with cheese in the piecrust. Probably in their "Best Recipes" if I am recalling correctly (I always thought it sounded awesome - just never got around to making it).

[Scotty O]

A little grated cheddar cut into the flour with the butter adds a great salty/nutty flavor to apple pie crust.

The pear/gruyere combo sounds great as well.

[emilyr]

Thanks everybody! I'm so excited to try this out. I'm already not the greatest crust maker in the world, so I'm glad to find out that this won't throw a major kink in the works.

[chickie]

what a great idea, my husband is going to love a cheddar apple pie. Maybe if I am feeling nice I will make him one tommorrow

[miladyinsanity]

RLB has a cream cheese pie dough, I think.

[plk]

Yeah, I make her cream cheese pie dough a lot, though it doesn't taste cheesy. Just a slight tang. Her crusts all also call for cider vinegar in addition to the water, so that contributes to the tanginess too, I think.

Edited October 30, 2007 by plk (log)

[jumanggy]

I've become a fan of Pushing Daisies too-- check out the Television Without Pity forums for fans chiming in on the food of PD (they even share recipes-- and someone wrote in a Gruyere and Pear pie).

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/in...0entry9137405

[SundaySous]

Yeah, I make her cream cheese pie dough a lot, though it doesn't taste cheesy. Just a slight tang. Her crusts all also call for cider vinegar in addition to the water, so that contributes to the tanginess too, I think.

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Somebody mentioned cider vinegar in pie crust and insisted it has to be cider vinegar.

Let's see I have cider vinegar, cheddar cheese and two dozen apples. What will I do?

*throws equipment in freezer, salivating already*

[Terrasanct]

Someone at another forum says that a pie crust recipe calling for boiling water to be poured over the lard turns out really well. I've never made one this way and I have to know if ayone else has. Wouldn't using melted lard make it impossible to have a flaky crust? I guess it would be the same as pie crusts with oil, but I've never seen the point of those, either. Someone enlighten me, please.

[The Old Foodie]

Someone at another forum says that a pie crust recipe calling for boiling water to be poured over the lard turns out really well.  I've never made one this way and I have to know if ayone else has.  Wouldn't using melted lard make it impossible to have a flaky crust?  I guess it would be the same as pie crusts with oil, but I've never seen the point of those, either.  Someone enlighten me, please.

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Hot water crust pastry is the type used for the "old fashioned" raised pies such as the famous English Melton Mowbray pie. The pastry is very robust - not flaky. It is different from other pastry in that it can be moulded like clay - so free-standing crusts (used to be called "coffins" in the old days) can be modelled.