Home-made Pie Crust: Tips & Troubleshooting

[chefpeon]

Well, here comes pie season, like it or not!

I love blind baking my crusts, because I have found it's an unbeatable method for avoiding the

ol' soggy crust syndrome. This, of course works great for single crust pies. But what about double crust pies? Once the bottom part is blind baked, it's pretty darn hard to seal a top crust to it. I

suppose I could wash the top edge with water or egg wash and that would work, but then I don't get to have a pretty fluted edge......just a flat edge with fork marks or something.

Is it an impossibility to blind bake a bottom crust and have a pretty top crust with a nice high fluted edge, or am I missing something in the aspect of methodology?

Any suggestions or help is mucho appreciated!!!!

[andiesenji]

I blind-bake pie shells on the OUTSIDE of an inverted Pyrex pie plate, cutting the dough off at the point where the side meets the lip of the top.

When the shell is placed into the pie plate in which the pie will be baked, there is a free space between the top of the shell and the lip of the pie plate and when I add the top, I fold the edges under and tuck into this space then flute the edge of the now doubled dough.

I don't worry about sealing the edges because I line the pie plate in which the pie will be baked with parchment paper. I buy the pre-cut rounds and just cut into the edge all the way around so when it is pushed down into the place, the cuts will overlap. If juices leak out it doesn't mar the look of the pie and the paper keeps it from sticking to the plate.

(I usually cut several at a time, I put a saucer over the center of the paper rounds and using a mat knife, make the cuts from the edge of the sauce out to the edge)

I learned the trick of blind-baking pie shells on the outside of a pie pan about 40 years ago. I dock the dough with a rolling docker before I place it over the pie pan but you can also prick it with a fork after you have placed it on the pan.

This technique means you do not need to use pie weights or liners to keep the sides from slumping. It takes a little practice to get it right but you can try it with smaller things.

I blind-bake little shells over the outside bottoms of either the regular or the jumbo muffin pans. Much easier than dealing with a bunch of little individual pans.

[Wendy DeBord]

I do similar to you andiesenji baking my blind pie crusts inverted. The only real difference is that I place another pie pan over the top so that it will flatten the crust. If you don't flatten it, it will puff up as it bakes. Then when it's reinverted and filled it can crack/break from the weight of the filling.

I've also prebaked bottom crusts in an attempt to avoid the possible soggie bottom. I don't know of a way to join the top and bottom once either is baked so it's traditional looking. I'll be pretty shocked if someone knows how to. But if you don't object you can leave your top crust floating. I'd rather have that then a wet bottom crust. I think if your more creative in how you do your top crust it's fine and can look decent. I'd do something more elaborate, like a leaf pattern or a lattice then just fork my edges.......

In a previous thread http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=47036&hl= we talked about pie making and I think you might like some of the techniques we talked about. For example, baking a fruit pie from a frozen state. If your doing these at work and have to make alot of pies, that works really well for me.

[phaelon56]

I'm intrigued by this concept but does the top crust look a bit weird? I'm visualizing well defined edges where it hits the edge of the inverted bottom and then drops down the what is actually the top edge of the pyrex pie dish that it's being baked on. Is there some way to blind bake the top crust so that it will have a more natural curve when it's removed and added to the pie before final baking?

[andiesenji]

I don't blind bake the top crust, only the bottom.

The bottom crust, pre-baked, is insulated by the fruit in the pie itself.

The top crust bakes very rapidly so that when the filling is done, so is the top crust.

If you bake it long enough to cook a non-pre-baked bottom, the top will be charred.

When I bake an egg custard pie, it does not have a top crust. However I do want a fancy edge around the circumference.

I cut little rounds, leaves or rosettes from dough, pull the pie (which is on a sheet pan) from the oven when it is about half done and the edges have thickened enough to support the dough, then add the "trim" overlapping the pieces around the entire outside edge, but not actually resting on the rim of the pie pan or plate.

Again, this takes a little practice but it looks nice and gives a "finished" look to the pie.

You can brush it with egg wash or a little simple syrup then sprinkle it with non-melting sugar to make it sparkle.

The remaining baking time should be just enought to finish setting the custard and browing the added dough trim without causing it to scorch.

You can practice by making a batch of dough, rolling it to different thicknesses and baking it on a sheet pan to see just how long it takes to bake to just showing color, to light brown, with and without an egg wash or whatever.

If you have the times recorded on a little card it can help the next time you want to make a pie with a terrific presentation appearance. And you can always eat the practic pieces as a snack.

[andiesenji]

I do similar to you andiesenji baking my blind pie crusts inverted. The only real difference is that I place another pie pan over the top so that it will flatten the crust. If you don't flatten it, it will puff up as it bakes. Then when it's reinverted and filled it can crack/break from the weight of the filling.

--------------------------------------------

After I roll the dough I run a rolling docker all over it. This is just a 3 inch long white nylon roller, 1 inch in diameter with steel spines sticking out all over it and a T-shaped wire handle to push it along.

This makes little holes every 1/4 inch so it keeps the dough from puffing, or at least I have had no problems.

The one I have is no longer made but this vendor has a couple which are similar but made of different materials: pastry tools

I find it saves me a lot of time and trouble.

I use it on other pastry also.

I saw one like it on ebay recently, listed as a "Docker brand" meat tenderizer!

[therdogg]

I find rolling out all-butter pie crusts between two sheets of plastic wrap to be really bothersome. The wrap always wrinkles, I have to straighten it every few rolls etc, and it sometimes tears the crusts upon removal. Are the expensive, silicone-coated rolling pins and silpat sheets worth the investment? Are they really nonstick, or just in theory?

[Wendy DeBord]

I roll pie dough out on a flour dusted table with a flour dusted pin. Your not doing any harm adding more flour in this time tested traditional method. You don't have to be stingy with the flour either, it's not going to penitrate your dough unless you fold it in.

If you must, I suggest buying two silpats and rolling anything and everything between them.

[Patrick S]

Cook's Illustrated tested the Roul'Pat silicone mat with two sticky doughs, cinnamon bun dough and cookie dough. The performance was a big flop.

Because the top surface of the Roul'Pat is nonstick, we had assumed that it would require little, if any, flour when we rolled out the doughs (although no such claim is made on the packaging). We were wrong. Both the bun dough and the cookie dough clung tenaciously to the Roul'Pat when rolled without flour--just as they did to the countertop when rolled without flour. In the end, we found that we needed just as much flour to roll our doughs on the Roul'Pat as we did on the countertop.

Bottom line? Save your counter space for your counter, not a Roul'Pat.

Save your money!

[Emily Kaiser]

If you want two sheets of something, you might also try wax paper. Still cumbersome, but a little less so than saran wrap.

[ludja]

Also--on the off chance that you're not doing this already-- chill the dough for 30-60 min before rolling out. Then, roll out as Sinclair describes above.

My pie crust is 1/2 butter and 1/2 lard and this works just fine.

[jgm]

I find rolling out all-butter pie crusts between two sheets of plastic wrap to be really bothersome.  The wrap always wrinkles, I have to straighten it every few rolls etc, and it sometimes tears the crusts upon removal.  Are the expensive, silicone-coated rolling pins and silpat sheets worth the investment?  Are they really nonstick, or just in theory?

←

I took my silicone mat with me to my father-in-law's house for Thanksgiving, for the purpose of rolling out pie dough. After rolling out 5 crusts on it, I've decided I will go back to using a pastry cloth. On the silicone mat, no matter how much flour I used, the crust still stuck, and was very difficult to roll out evenly because of the sticking. Some spots were too thick and others were so thin that holes were created, and there was no correcting the situation. It was a mess.

The most effective apparatus I've found for rolling out pie dough is something I ordered from QVC a few years ago, but I think other ways could be found to produce the same thing, without ordering what I have. It's a large plastic oval, and a special cover is made for it from cloth; the cover is constructed much like a shower cap, with elastic stretching along the edge, so that the cover fits over the plastic oval. (I don't seem to be able to articulately describe things today. Please bear with me!) The cover is made of a fairly thin white cloth. So I guess what I'm saying is, you could take a large woven, non-terrycloth kitchen towel (or just a piece of cotton cloth; muslin would work well), fit it around a large cutting board and safety pin it together in back, and replicate my setup. If it wobbles or creeps, take a terrycloth towel, wet it down and wring it out, fold it (to provide a little padding) and put it under the cutting board. I'm betting it will work really well.

[nightscotsman]

I usually just use the flour on the table method myself, but I can pass on a little secret when using a silpat: you may have noticed that one side of the sheet is very smooth while the other has sort of a woven texture to it. If you use the textured side rather than the smooth side, and dust it with flour, the flour will be trapped by the little bumps in the texture and stay under the dough rather than pushing out to the sides as you roll out. Also, if you make sure the table is clean and just a little bit damp before you lay out the sheet, the smooth side will stick and and keep the sheet from sliding around.

[jgm]

I usually just use the flour on the table method myself, but I can pass on a little secret when using a silpat: you may have noticed that one side of the sheet is very smooth while the other has sort of a woven texture to it. If you use the textured side rather than the smooth side, and dust it with flour, the flour will be trapped by the little bumps in the texture and stay under the dough rather than pushing out to the sides as you roll out. Also, if you make sure the table is clean and just a little bit damp before you lay out the sheet, the smooth side will stick and and keep the sheet from sliding around.

←

Good to know. I will try it. The beautiful thing about the silpat is, that it's so easily transportable. Given my particular family configuration (a nice way of saying my father-in-law does not cook, and if I want a holiday dinner, I have to bring everything and cook most of it myself), I make pies away from home a lot. Maybe I can rescue the silpat solution, after all.

Thanks!

[fiftydollars]

I usually just use the flour on the table method myself, but I can pass on a little secret when using a silpat: you may have noticed that one side of the sheet is very smooth while the other has sort of a woven texture to it. If you use the textured side rather than the smooth side, and dust it with flour, the flour will be trapped by the little bumps in the texture and stay under the dough rather than pushing out to the sides as you roll out. Also, if you make sure the table is clean and just a little bit damp before you lay out the sheet, the smooth side will stick and and keep the sheet from sliding around.

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Damn that's a good idea...

I'm really surprised about the disappointing performance of the roulpat. I'm so happy with the silpat that I sort of assumed the roulpat would also be a great product.

[lorea]

I have both the roulpat and silpat, and the performance is very much the same. The roulpat does well for firmer doughs, but for wet and sticky doughs, it is only a little less sticky than a melanine tabletop. You still need some flour to prevent sticking. It's nice to have such a nice, large surface that's easy to clean though, so I still always use it.

Also, the nice thing about the mat is that it makes it easy to transfer the dough because you can pick the whole thing up. And if the dough does happen to stick, you can always pick the whole thing up, flip it over, and peel the mat away from the sticking dough. A thin flexible cutting board also does much the same, so if you can find one of the harder to find large ones, you might as buy that instead - they're much more inexpensive.

[Wendy DeBord]

Make certain your dough is well chilled! You shouldn't have so much butter/fat in your dough that it's sticking or your room is too hot or your dough is too hot A little flour on your table should be all you need.........if your needing more, I think you need to work on your pie dough recipe or technique for making it.

[jgarner53]

I used to always use two sheets of waxed paper for rolling out my crusts, especially pie crusts, because they are usually very fragile.

But I have since learned, like Wendy said, that rolling out on a well-floured board isn't a problem, and is easier (though there is cleanup at the end). I can roll anything out that way. Sweet dough, puff pastry, pie crust.

[achevres]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the surface they are rolling on. I roll on the granite counter on my kitchen with a marble rolling pin. Before that, for many, many years, I rolled on a marble board. The coolness of the marble or granite helps a lot. I don't think anything is 100% foolproof, though. The marble boards are not expensive and are often on sale. On another thread someone also suggested icing down the marble board before starting (and drying it, of course).

[artisanbaker]

roulpat: marketing ploy

[dlc]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the surface they are rolling on.  I roll on the granite counter on my kitchen with a marble rolling pin.  Before that, for many, many years, I rolled on a marble board. The coolness of the marble or granite helps a lot. I don't think anything is 100% foolproof, though. The marble boards are not expensive and are often on sale. On another thread someone also suggested icing down the marble board before starting (and drying it, of course).

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I use a marble board for rolling out short sticky pie doughs. I also use it for candy making. In the past I have been able to get scrap marble pieces from monument companies or counter top companies for almost nothing. When a large piece breaks they can rarely sell the scrap. Once at my grandmother's I even used the marble top of an old victorian end table as a work surface. If your marble board won't go in the refrigerator, icing it works great. A bag of ice or a zip-top bag full of ice just placed on top for a few minutes.

[merrybaker]

I use a big unbleached canvas cloth underneath the crust, and a special knit "stocking" around the rolling pin. Both are well-floured, and there's very little sticking. If the dough does stick in one place, I slide a thin spatula underneath and re-flour that area. No need to wash this set-up when I'm through -- just roll up the rolling pin inside the cloth. If the cloth does get a cinnamon or onion flavor to it , it can be tossed in the washer for easy cleanup. My mother used this set-up, and she was right!

[jgarner53]

I have the old-fashioned pull-out cutting boards in my kitchen. One of those gets pulled out and placed on the pebbly shelf liner you can buy at the hardware store (so it won't slide around). It's either that or have tile grout marks in my pastry.

[Woods]

I find rolling out all-butter pie crusts between two sheets of plastic wrap to be really bothersome.  The wrap always wrinkles, I have to straighten it every few rolls etc, and it sometimes tears the crusts upon removal.  Are the expensive, silicone-coated rolling pins and silpat sheets worth the investment?  Are they really nonstick, or just in theory?

←

Try rolling it when it is very cold. If its sucre you can cut in pieces and knead a little before rolling. For brisee try walking it out a bit with the pin, i.e., push down on dough in both directions to let it know what you are doing. I never though rolling stone cold dough would work but at school I learned it does! I am no longer intimidated by it! Good luck.

[KarenS]

I roll out 15 ten inch sucre, and 8 9 inch sucre every day- plus 4 cream cheese dough. You don't need any special mat or pin. I roll on a stainless bench with a wooden pin and flour. Keep rolling, it takes time and practice. All that "between two pieces of wax/ parchment/ plastic" is not a help. Use flour, keep turning the dough, and make sure that it is rested (made yesterday or six hours before), cool, (and not cold).