Pastry Cream

[Mottmott]

As a home cook, I have a tendency to make and use things like this only on the day it is made, next day at most. But I thought for summer desserts it might be nice if I could make a slightly larger amount to use over several days.

I assume pastry cream is not to be frozen? Or if it can will the texture degrade?

In the fridge it will keep how long? Or for optimal flavor is it make and use it today or tomorrow?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Seems to me that we had a thread on this exact question in the not too distant past .. will continue my search ...

Ming Tsai says one can cool the pastry creme and refrigerate for up to one week .. which I have done without a problem.

I personally have frozen pastry creme and defrosted it, whippped it up again, and used it without any problem.

[adoxograph]

If you're using a custard type pastry cream, I've found that freezing and reusing causes a grainy texture that personally, I find blechy.

I give my pastry cream at home no more than a week.

Edited August 14, 2004 by adoxograph (log)

[Mottmott]

Thanks, it seems I've been too conservative. I'm planning to start the elements for blackberry tartlets tonight to assemble tomorrow, and know I'll have leftover pastry cream. I didn't want to use it again the very next day. I try not to indulge 2 days in a row. I may make some fruit napoleons later in the week with the leftover pc.

[chromedome]

In "The Professional Pastry Chef" Bo Friberg gives the lifespan of pastry cream as four days; after the first two days he recommends only using it in items which will be baked after the cream is added. I think that's probably a bit conservative, myself, but I've *never* had leftover pastry cream so what would I know?

[Wendy DeBord]

Every recipe author will tell you something different. I've read recipes for pastry cream that tell you it only holds for 2 days.......thats rediculously wasteful. But then they might be talking about perfection, how long something remains perfect. (When in fact everything begins to deteriorate)

You have to follow your own principals of quality and deside when something is bad or good. I personally keep pastry cream for a week, sometimes longer. Some p.c. recipes do keep better then others. Sometimes the liquids may begin seperating......sometimes you can stir it back together and it's fine for a couple more days.........sometimes when the liquid seeps out it really old and should have been tossed days ago.

You can freeze pastry cream, but it can get funky. To use it successfully I suggest adding it to something else. Mix it up good or if it's thin, pour off the liquid and stir it up. Then you can bake with it or fold whipped cream into it or butter, etc....

[Mottmott]

Ah, you've all been so helpful.

And with pros on board, may I ask how far can one reduce the sugar and still have it thicken. I find most pastry creams too sweet, but usually doggedly follow the recipe for fear of ruining it. I used Jackal's recipe which recommended beating 1/3 of the sugar with the eggsto a ribbon. Can I assume that I could have left out some/all of the remaining sugar with no bad result?

Another question. It appears that one can use flour/cornstarch interchangably for thickening. But some recipes call for "boiling" the pastry cream a couple minutes. I was under the impression that boiling cornstarch is a no-no.

Also, I have had (out, better restaurants) tarts using a pastry cream that is more creamy than pasty. I wonder how to achieve that effect. Fold in some creme fraiche or whipped cream?

[Wendy DeBord]

From some of the things you wrote, you have me wondering how your making pastry cream and what your recipe looks like. Would you mind posting it?

Some answers:

Yes you can reduce the sugar, sugar has nothing to do with thickening. I beleive you can use splenda in it's place also.

Beating your eggs and sugar before cooking is an unnecessary step.

You can use either flour or cornstarch and or other thickeners. BUT you can't interchange them without making adjustments in your recipe. In other words 1/4 c. flour won't thicken the same as 1/4 c. cornstarch.

I bring my pastry cream up to a boil. Many items don't reach their peak of thickening until they come to a boil. Cornstarch should be brought up to a boil.

Creamy verses pastie......thats up to the recipe your using and how you make it. Good pastry cream shouldn't be pastie. It sounds over thickened if it's pastie. You could have too many eggs to liqiuid proportions or too much thickener-flour or cornstarch, etc....

You can fold in whipped cream or creme fraiche (and plenty other ingredients) into pastry cream to enhanse it. Pastry cream is a foundation/basic item that we traditionally build off of, turning into other more complex fillings/items.

[McDuff]

You can freeze pastry cream, but it can get funky.

If I remember from baking formula technology, you can freeze a flour bound pastry cream, or an arrowroot bound pastry cream, but not a cornstarch thickened pastry cream. Something to do with long chain amylopectins or something. The pastry cream we use at work comes in frozen in 18 lb tubs and is as good as anything I can make and I give a silent prayer of thanks every time I open one that I don't have to make it.

[Mottmott]

Wendy, I used the pastry cream recipe on eGullet (from Jackal).

6 Egg yolks

125 g sugar

40 g Corn flour (or ordinary flour)

1 vanilla pod split

500 l milk

1. Put the egg yolks and about a third of the sugar in a bowl and whisk until they go pale and form a ribbon. Much easier to do this using a food processer or an electric hand whisk.

2. Sift in the flour and beat well.

3. Put the milk, the rest of the sugar and the split vanill pod in a saucepan and bring to the boil....

4. As soon as the mixture boils, pour 1/3rd into the egg mixture and stir well.

5. Pour the egg and milk back into the rest of the milk, and return to a gentle heat. Stir well until it begins to thicken. Boil for 2 minutes.

6. Take off the heat and continue to stir. Put some knobs of butter over the surface to prevent a skin forming. Let cool.

I'm sure all my proportions are right on as I weighed out all ingredients in grams ahead of starting. I've made pastry cream before, so the process wasn't unfamiliar, though this is the first time I've used cornstarch instead of the flour. It definitely came to the boil, though I didn't allow it to boil for any length of time because I was worried about the cornstarch, and once it came to the boil, I kept lifting the pan off the heat just enough to keep it at a heavy simmer .

Understand, when I bake I keep trying for perfection. Abstractly the pc was fine. Everyone scarfed down my blackberry tart. And I assure you I did not point out what I thought were its defects. (Although I do freeze pate brisee, I'm not convinced it's quite as good as when baked without freezing.)

When I complain that it's "pasty," I'm comparing it to one I tasted recently that had a silky quality I am trying to recreate. In fact this one was very good, like a semi solid creme anglaise. (I did strain it and was gratified there were no scrambled eggs left in the strainer.) I could eat it by the spoonful, and I'll probably use the bit that's leftover with fruit.

I'm sure that pastry chef whose trail I'm on had some "trick" with the pastry cream: lightened it with something or perhaps made creme anglaise and used a small amoung of gelatin to stiffen it a bit. I may even screw up my courage and call the restaurant to talk to the pc.

I'd be happpy to just experiment, except that unlike the pros, I'd wind up eating much of it instead of selling it. Extra weight will aggravate my back condition so I try to be careful.

It makes sense that I can make savory pastry cream just as I can make savory custard.

[Redsugar]

Re crème pâtissière storage times….

Let's remember that properly defrosting desserts is as important as properly freezing them. Elinor Klivans ("Bake and Freeze Desserts") instructs:

* Cool desserts before freezing them.

* Keep freezer as close to 0° F. as possible.

* Use suitable materials for packaging & wrap packages well.

* Label desserts w/ date.

* Store desserts inside the freezer, not on door shelves.

* Defrost correctly.

Klivans, a true-blue expert in these matters, recommends 3 weeks as the maximum time that pastry cream "can be stored in the freezer w/out losing quality." Yet, as Sinclair has astutely noted above, this standard must agree w/ your own gold standard in terms of any appreciable difference in original quality of the product.

Now, please take a few moments to consider the testimonies of the following food-world notables:

Pierre Hermé stipulates that pastry cream can be kept successfully in the refrigerator "for 2 days." Gaston Lenôtre teaches that Chocolate, Coffee, and Vanilla Pastry Creams “will keep for a maximum of 2 days in the refrigerator in a tightly sealed container.” He says that almond pastry cream will keep in the refrigerator for “up to 8 days.”

Nick Malgieri believes that pastry cream should be used "by the end of the following day" of its preparation. And, likewise, Ann Amernick. Ditto the food technologist, Hilary Walden. Emily Luchetti tells us that it will keep for "several days" refrigerated. Nancy Silverton's experience revealed that it "keeps refrigerated for seven to ten days."

Nevertheless, Carole Bloom writes that pastry cream, while it will keep "well-covered in the refrigerator, for up to 4 days," she stresses that "it cannot be frozen.'

I must look up Jim Dodge's position on this subject.

Since graduating from cooking school 15 years ago, my view has remained basic: Pastry cream can be frozen successfully if either the flour or cornstarch is increased slightly to create a thicker cream. Thin creams will tend to separate upon thawing. There is also the factor of whether you have added an alcoholic spirit to the cream prior to freezing the mixture.

Does freezing diminish the quality of food? Quoting from Howard Hillman's book Kitchen Science: "The answer is undeniable yes. When frozen food thaws, some of its stored water seeps out its cells, and consequently the cells lose their plumpness and the food its firmness. The water loss is caused by the creation fo ice crystals and the lost of osmotic capability." Howard McGee concurs in his classic, "On Food & Cooking" -- to wit, "There are more consequences in this anomaly than are immediately apparent." Logically, our attention is reverted to the proper storage details outlined by Klivans, supra.

[Mottmott]

WOW. That's thoroughness at work. It's interesting the variation in answers from chef to chef. The one that floored me was the distance between almond pastry cream and 8 days and Hermes unequivocal 2 days. The dicey element of eggs is in both. Do almonds have preservative qualities?

For those of us who live alone, or even coupled, it would be nice to be able to freshly make some of the more complex confections in just one or two servings.

Now I'm not about to make just one - or even two blackberry tartlets or two eclairs, etc., from raw ingredients whenever I want one. But I can make a batch of pate brisee, roll it out, cut it into rounds to fit my tart pan, freeze them flat separated for individual baking. It would be nice to have little ziplock bags of pastry cream, frangipane, etc., just enough to fill one of these tarts. In a single session, one could have on hand the basic elements for a quick fruit tart that is freshly baked, and simply assemble and bake them when desired. I do this with scones. I'll make up a batch of a couple dozen at the same time, bake and take some to my kids and freeze the rest. Baking up a couple for breakfast to have with some homemade preserves and a good cup of coffee is a delightful treat.

Professional chefs learn how to stage their production so that each serving only needs final assembly. I think whether one is a busy mother trying to feed a large family or one is doing solo cooking, this practice gives you a little more range. The problem for me in pastry making is to learn what this can be done with and what must be done at the very last minute. Hmmm. Is there a cookbook concept there?

Or an eGCI class?

[nice_guy1812]

I'd like to make a pastry cream that I can freeze, so I'm going to follow McDuff's suggestion of using flour instead of cornstarch. I'm wondering though how long I should cook the pastry cream to get rid of the floury taste. The recipe I use (from Pierre Hermé) uses cornstarch and instructs you to boil for only a minute or two. If I used flour, would 1-2 minutes be enough to get rid of the floury taste? Also, if I have to cook it longer should I reduce the amount of flour, or increase amount of milk, to allow for evaporation?

[nightscotsman]

Boiling for a minute or two should be fine if you're using flour. However, you can't just sub flour for corn starch one for one. They have difference thickening qualities. I would try to find another recipe that is uses flour.

[Mottmott]

I used the recipe with the cornstarch and it turned out fine, though a bit less firm than when I've made it with flour. In this case it worked for me as I made individual tarts and used the leftovers as a sauce. It would have been too runny in a single large tart.