About roux

[Really Nice!]

Actually, a butter roux would be less caloric. Fat is fat so all fat has exactly the same calories. Butter is 10% water though so would have 10% less calories.

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Not quite. It's true that all fats have 9 calories per gram (alcohol 7, carbs and protein 4). However, water will boil off long before the roux is ready. All you're really doing is is changing the ratio of fat to butter.

You can use whole butter for blanc roux, but clarified butter is recommended for blond, brown, and black because the milk solids will burn giving it an off taste.

When making a roux, look for viscosity. It should have the texture of wet sand on the beach after a wave.

Does anyone know when/where the volume perspective crept into the picture?

Fanny Farmer. She's the one who is credited for taking a recipe instruction such as "take a chunk of butter the size of an egg and..." and converted to a volume measurement.

And a wee bit of history about roux. It was invented by LaVarrenne, 1615-1678. He also is known for diminishing the use of spices and inventing the duxelles preparation of mushrooms.

According to Escoffier, the ratio is to use 9 ounces of butter to 8 ounces of fat.

[jackal10]

most butter is 18-20% water, depending on salt content.

A pint's a pound the world over?  not in the UK, where we idiosyncratically have 20-oz pints - 25% larger than US pints. 

confusing, eh? :)

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Bigger and better...

A pint of water is a pound and a quarter..

A gallon is ten punds

[chromedome]

At the end of the day, I guess we could say that if your product is of the right consistency and doesn't taste starchy, it's all good.

[scott123]

Not quite.  It's true that all fats have 9 calories per gram (alcohol 7, carbs and protein 4). However, water will boil off long before the roux is ready. All you're really doing is is changing the ratio of fat to butter.

You can use whole butter for blanc roux, but clarified butter is recommended for blond, brown, and black because the milk solids will burn giving it an off taste.

When making a roux, look for viscosity. It should have the texture of wet sand on the beach after a wave.

Fanny Farmer. She's the one who is credited for taking a recipe instruction such as "take a chunk of butter the size of an egg and..." and converted to a volume measurement.

And a wee bit of history about roux. It was invented by LaVarrenne, 1615-1678. He also is known for diminishing the use of spices and inventing the duxelles preparation of mushrooms.

According to Escoffier, the ratio is to use 9 ounces of butter to 8 ounces of fat.

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Fanny Farmer... LaVarrenne... fascinating. Thanks!

[hazardnc]

I attended a Slow Food event recently where we were taught the finer points of stocks and sauces. We were taught how to make roux as well, and the instructor said you can make more roux than you need and store it.

I don't often need a dark roux, but I do like to use light roux to make sauces (bechamel specifically) fairly often. Can I make a large batch and save the leftovers for future use? If so, how long will it keep and how do I reheat to add to stock for sauces?

[FistFullaRoux]

Absolutely, it will store. I've had luck with everything from Ziploc bags to jars. Use a jar if it will be used quite quickly (within a couple of days) or bag it to freeze it. You can freeze it by the cup so you have premeasured available whenever, but I usually don't have a hard time breaking off a chunk the size that I need.

There are pre-made jarred rouxs (Cajun dark rouxs, usually) available.

[hazardnc]

Absolutely, it will store. I've had luck with everything from Ziploc bags to jars. Use a jar if it will be used quite quickly (within a couple of days) or bag it to freeze it. You can freeze it by the cup so you have premeasured available whenever, but I usually don't have a hard time breaking off a chunk the size that I need.

There are pre-made jarred rouxs (Cajun dark rouxs, usually) available.

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Thanks for the response. How do you go about incorporating your roux after it's been refrigerated? How do you reheat it? Do you just let it come to room temp?

[Joisey]

Let your Roux come to room temperature then temper some of the hot liquid into it before slowly adding the slurry back to the main pot. Never just drop the chunk of Roux in and whisk, you'll get lumps.

[Dave Hatfield]

Why bother to make & store something that you can make from scratch in a couple of minutes?

Just can't see the logic or advantage of making & storing roux.

Sorry, am I mossing something here?

[snowangel]

Why bother to make & store something that you can make from scratch in a couple of minutes?

Just can't see the logic or advantage of making & storing roux.

Sorry, am I mossing something here?

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However, a dark roux for a gumbo is a big time commitment, with no potty breaks, so I can see a definite advantage to making a mess of it ahead of time...

[Dave Hatfield]

Why bother to make & store something that you can make from scratch in a couple of minutes?

Just can't see the logic or advantage of making & storing roux.

Sorry, am I mossing something here?

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However, a dark roux for a gumbo is a big time commitment, with no potty breaks, so I can see a definite advantage to making a mess of it ahead of time...

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At my age I understand about potty breaks, but..

Even a dark roux isn't THAT long. Is it?

[Joisey]

Dark Roux, when done correctly, is a labor of time and love. If you use it a lot, there is an advantage to having it on hand.

Professionally, it makes a lot of sense to making a big batch of Roux. You have to make it once, you might as well eliminate the need to make it a few more times down the line. For home use? Ehh, I can't imagine someone using that much roux that you'd need to have it on hand as opposed to making it each time.

[Paul Stanley]

As the roux experts are here, may I ask a question?

Last weekend I made (for the first time in my life) a dark roux for a gumbo, following the instructions at the start of the gumbo thread. Apart from the usual glitches with making something new for the first time, all went well, and the end result was devoured.

But ... I was puzzled when making the roux. I used 1/3 cup each of groundnut oil and plain (i.e. all purpose--I am in England) flour. I have a gas stove, not super powerful or anything, and used a medium flame. I began to get some significant color in the roux rather more quickly than I expected (after maybe 10 to 15 minutes). I began to worry it was going to burn, and actually turned the heat down slightly. After a little under 20 minutes, there was a distinct change in texture (it went sort of fluffy, and more sticky). I stirred religiously and watched the heat carefully. I had it the color of dark milk chocolate at about 20 to 25 minutes, at which point I added the trinity etc.

Now, I expect that with more experience I could take it a little darker than I did--but not a huge amount. And I'm certain that it was not burned: the flavor it contributed was a slightly bitter toastiness, which I'm assuming is along the right lines.

But: what puzzled me was that the time taken was not nearly as long as I was expecting. Was this just because I had the heat too high (and got lucky with not burning it)? Or did I make it insufficiently dark? Since I don't think I've eaten gumbo more than once in my life, it's very hard to known where I should be heading!

[johnsmith45678]

Speaking of roux, you have got to see this:

Huge vat of corn starch and water, which is rubber-like if run across but is like quickstand if stood in.

[007bond-jb]

As the roux experts are here, may I ask a question?

Last weekend I made (for the first time in my life) a dark roux for a gumbo, following the instructions at the start of the gumbo thread. Apart from the usual glitches with making something new for the first time, all went well, and the end result was devoured.

But ... I was puzzled when making the roux. I used 1/3 cup each of groundnut oil and plain (i.e. all purpose--I am in England) flour. I have a gas stove, not super powerful or anything, and used a medium flame. I began to get some significant color in the roux rather more quickly than I expected (after maybe 10 to 15 minutes). I began to worry it was going to burn, and actually turned the heat down slightly. After a little under 20 minutes, there was a distinct change in texture (it went sort of fluffy, and more sticky). I stirred religiously and watched the heat carefully. I had it the color of dark milk chocolate at about 20 to 25 minutes, at which point I added the trinity etc.

Now, I expect that with more experience I could take it a little darker than I did--but not a huge amount. And I'm certain that it was not burned: the flavor it contributed was a slightly bitter toastiness, which I'm assuming is along the right lines.

But: what puzzled me was that the time taken was not nearly as long as I was expecting. Was this just because I had the heat too high (and got lucky with not burning it)? Or did I make it insufficiently dark? Since I don't think I've eaten gumbo more than once in my life, it's very hard to known where I should be heading!

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You got it rite It will be slightly toasty & different oils change the flavor, the darker you get it the toastier it will taste. The main thing is use a HEAVY pot like cast iron a flat stirrer you don't have to stir fast just continualy & don't miss any of the pots surface with your paddle. Here's a photo of a med. dark roux finished

Edited November 15, 2006 by 007bond-jb (log)

[Joisey]

Paul...sometimes when making Dark Roux, once you start getting some color you can pop the pan in the oven to finish it. It still will need attention but the oven is more forgiving than an open flame.

[Paul Stanley]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like it was behaving as expected: at any rate, I did it in a heavy pan and it did toast and it didn't burn, so ... I was just surprised that it didn't take longer than it did.

[FistFullaRoux]

Sorry about the delay in responding...

What Paul Stanley saw in his pot is to be expected. The texture will change as the protiens and starches in the flour and the fats in the oil interact with each other going through temperature changes. 20 minutes for a medium to dark roux sounds pretty normal. With practice, there are techniques that go much faster, but require lots of knowlege. Ask Mayhaw Man about his Cajun Napalm techniques. In the end, if it did not have black flecks and a burnt taste, all is well.

One note on the oil. I saw that you used nut oils, and I would be a little leery of that, the lone exception being peanut oil. Peanut, vegetable, or canola oils are your best bets because of high smoke points, though lard or rendered beef fat work great as well. Also a neutral flavored oil is preferred.

eta: All purpose flour or it's equivalent is what you should use. If I remember correctly, plain French flour is slightly different from American all-purpose somehow. Julia Child mentioned in one book that American all-purpose is bleached and chemically treated and has an much longer shelf life than equivalent French flour. That may account for some differences in France. Other areas may have other differences.

Edited November 17, 2006 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[snowangel]

Do we suppose that a dark roux takes less time in a skillet than a LC dutch oven?

[FistFullaRoux]

Do we suppose that a dark roux takes less time in a skillet than a LC dutch oven?

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Any heavy pot will work best, regardless of the coating. Many swear by cast iron, but it's pretty much whatever you have on hand and what you are comfortable using. Gumbos in South Louisiana are made in everything from thin aluminum stock pots to cast iron dutch ovens. Though the roux is usually made in a smaller heavier pot then transferred to the lighter one once the trinity has been incorporated.

Time wise, I don't see how LC would contribute anything. Heavy pots do transfer heat more evenly, and that is the only difference. My guess is that psychologically, the light enamel does show color changes more readily than a well seasoned cast iron pan does.

Edited November 17, 2006 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[highchef]

Why bother to make & store something that you can make from scratch in a couple of minutes?

Just can't see the logic or advantage of making & storing roux.

Sorry, am I mossing something here?

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However, a dark roux for a gumbo is a big time commitment, with no potty breaks, so I can see a definite advantage to making a mess of it ahead of time...

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At my age I understand about potty breaks, but..

Even a dark roux isn't THAT long. Is it?

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It's not the 25 minutes that it takes, it's the constant attention. There is a split second that a roux can go rougue on you..that's usually when tha baby cries, or the boys get into 'it' in the back yard and there's a bloody nose, or you see something else that needs your immediate attention. Most things in cooking can be done in quick little stages, with time in between. Once I had my first child I didn't try to make a roux again until all of them were old enough to send upstairs/outside and put under dire threat of tremendous pain if they interrupted the process. A burnt roux smell is a bitch to get out of your house. That's enough for me! I confess to freezing it still, but now only when I make it for the upcoming turkey gumbo. That way I don't have to leave family and friends etc. to make another for Christmas eve seafood gumbo...it just saves me that much time when there is so little of it.

[FistFullaRoux]

As far as the reason for storing it, sometimes, I frankly do not have time to make it from scratch. Not that it is a difficult thing to do, but the smell can be kind of intense, and it's quicker to use frozen if it is on hand. It's like stock. If you have frozen available, why make it from the beginning, especially if it is from your own kitchen anyway?

Roux is one of those things that keep well, so it makes sense to make larger batches less frequently. Creates more options come dinnertime, and less opportunity for pizza delivery in a moment of weakness.

[snowangel]

Do we suppose that a dark roux takes less time in a skillet than a LC dutch oven?

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Any heavy pot will work best, regardless of the coating. Many swear by cast iron, but it's pretty much whatever you have on hand and what you are comfortable using. Gumbos in South Louisiana are made in everything from thin aluminum stock pots to cast iron dutch ovens. Though the roux is usually made in a smaller heavier pot then transferred to the lighter one once the trinity has been incorporated.

Time wise, I don't see how LC would contribute anything. Heavy pots do transfer heat more evenly, and that is the only difference. My guess is that psychologically, the light enamel does show color changes more readily than a well seasoned cast iron pan does.

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I was referring more to the depth of the pot, not the actual material of a heavy pot...

[highchef]

Do we suppose that a dark roux takes less time in a skillet than a LC dutch oven?

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Any heavy pot will work best, regardless of the coating. Many swear by cast iron, but it's pretty much whatever you have on hand and what you are comfortable using. Gumbos in South Louisiana are made in everything from thin aluminum stock pots to cast iron dutch ovens. Though the roux is usually made in a smaller heavier pot then transferred to the lighter one once the trinity has been incorporated.

Time wise, I don't see how LC would contribute anything. Heavy pots do transfer heat more evenly, and that is the only difference. My guess is that psychologically, the light enamel does show color changes more readily than a well seasoned cast iron pan does.

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I was referring more to the depth of the pot, not the actual material of a heavy pot...

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Because? Maybe the heat is more intense given smaller sides? More rapid heat transfer? Nah, I doubt that. I think, having done both, that using the pot you're making the gumbo in to make the roux gives you one less pot to clean. You do need something like a 'rouxstir' though. long handled angled wooden paddle to keep your arms out of the pot and harms way. ( they're called cajun rouxstirs ..roosters..get it? but a looong handled spoon works just as well)

I use a LC pot for regular gumbo/roux and a large gumbo or stock pot for party size outside cooking roux/gumbos. The stock pot is not cast iron (stainless) and it does just fine.

[Marc Olson]

The first gumbo I made I was so paranoid about burning the roux that it took more than an hour to get it properly dark.

Now I use the 'flash roux' method of heating the oil on high until is shimmers, nearly smoking, and then adding the flour all at once and stirring like crazy. If you stay on it, you get a nice dark roux in 10 minutes.