Secret Spices in Heinz Ketchup?

[scott123]

i'm guessing ketchup is cooked.

it certainly doesn't have a raw taste to it.

The tomato would most certainly be cooked down into a paste. But none of the other ingredients (corn syrup, vinegar, salt, onion powder, spices) have a raw taste when uncooked.

mm - i'd have to disagree - at least ot my palate onion powder and garlic powder stick out like a sore thumb unless whatever they're in has been heated to meld flavors.

I did notice a certain graininess in my ketchup when I added the onion powder. It could be that my onion powder is a courser grind, but more likely that the graininess gets cooked away. I will try cooking my ketchup the next time I make it.

Edited April 19, 2004 by scott123 (log)

[tryska]

Give it a shot, scott! I'm curious to see how your final recipe turns out.

[Mabelline]

Don't know if this helps, but my grams and my mama cooked the crap out of their catsups to can, and they beat the hell right out of any mass product. If you can come up with an old Ball Jar or Mason Jar cookbook, they've got probably the spice mixtures in the amounts to get a GOOD product...one that'll have you bleatin' while you're eatin'! Good Luck, and Happy Stains to You!!!

[clothier]

It's been awhile since I've eaten any ketchup but if it tastes like I remember then I too would cast my vote for allspice.

what do you eat with your fries?

[Suzanne F]

I always thought that their secret ingredient was love.

Oh, lord, another comedian!

[Mabelline]

Yeah, love and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee!

[Camdon]

what do you eat with your fries?

If I dip them in anything it's sriracha.

Unfortunately tomatoes make my tongue and lips swell thereby diminishing the french fry experience.

[Mabelline]

Hi, Camdon,welcome...do you ever do your fries with vinegars? That is my lifeblood, I tell ya. Fries with hot chili palm vinegar, or real nice malt vinegar---YUM.

[FistFullaRoux]

Well, I did find out the following:

HK contains no animal products at all. All ingredients are plant based.

It's Kosher. It is gluten free. I was unable to find any allegy information on HK except for the above mentioned tomato sensitivity.

Therefore, it does not contain dairy, it does not contain gluten, and only contains plant products, not including wheat, soy, or nuts. Or triggers for any other common allergy.

From that point, you are on your own. At least we have eliminated the anchovies.

Edited to add:

Food Network Unwrapped episode includes a Heinz factory tour. I don't know if it is for the ketchup, however. Maybe someone can glean a few details from the large box o stuff that they dump into the vat... Last showing was on the 14th. I haven't located any other scheduled showing.

Edited April 19, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[FistFullaRoux]

More info as found. Take with as many grains of salt as you feel necessary.

This site suggests that the seasonaings are cinnamon, cloves, mace, cayenne pepper, and allspice.

Supposedly, as this site claims:

"In fact, the ingredients we expect to find in ketchup are so widely known, that the FDA does not allow anything to use a ketchup, catsup, or catchup label unless it has the following ingredients:

• Cooked and strained tomato sauce
  
• Vinegar
  
• Sugar
  
• Salt
  
• Flavored with onion or garlic
  
• Spices; such as cinnamon, cloves, mace, allspice, nutmeg, ginger, and cayenne"
  

That's more thought than I have ever put into the stuff. It's one of those things that is so well done, inexpensive, and common, that I never thought about trying to recreate it. It's like butter or olive oil. You can make your own, but for what real purpose?

[tryska]

here's an interesting recipe.

http://www.kbapps.com/cookbook/ketchup.html

[tryska]

and here's a canning recipe:

http://www.e-cookbooks.net/recipes/ir218.htm

hey...who knew ketchup came from india?

http://www.waitrose.com/food_drink/recipes...0208062-r04.asp

Edited April 19, 2004 by tryska (log)

[lueid813]

My best guess is that it's a hedge designed to let manufacturers vary the spices in products depending on what is available and cheapest at a given time.

I think "spices" on an ingredients label is to allow manufacturers to keep at least part of their recipe secret.

This creates problems for people with allergies or who want to avoid certain foodstuffs for ethical or religious reasons. But it's also easy to understand that food manufacturers don't wish to tell their competitors exactly which spices they use.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/flg-4.html

[lueid813]

hey...who knew ketchup came from india?

In old cookbooks (1700s, 1800s) you can often find several ketchup recipes for almost anything that comes out of the garden: mushroom ketchup, cucumber ketchup, onion ketchup, etc.

Until I discoved this fact, I always wondered what was the point of calling it tomato ketchup.

non-tomato ketchups for sale:

http://www.ketchupworld.com/ketchupnews.html

[scott123]

More info as found. Take with as many grains of salt as you feel necessary.

This site suggests that the seasonaings are cinnamon, cloves, mace, cayenne pepper, and allspice.

Supposedly, as this site claims:

  "In fact, the ingredients we expect to find in ketchup are so widely known, that the FDA does not allow anything to use a ketchup, catsup, or catchup label unless it has the following ingredients:

• Cooked and strained tomato sauce
  
• Vinegar
  
• Sugar
  
• Salt
  
• Flavored with onion or garlic
  
• Spices; such as cinnamon, cloves, mace, allspice, nutmeg, ginger, and cayenne"
  

That's more thought than I have ever put into the stuff. It's one of those things that is so well done, inexpensive, and common, that I never thought about trying to recreate it. It's like butter or olive oil. You can make your own, but for what real purpose?

That Waitrose article is fascinating. I'd be curious to know how much the ketchup recipe has changed since the 1800s. If it is the same recipe from 1875 Pennsylvania, something like coriander might be a little too foreign for that region/time, right?

I have always been fairly certain the the "natural flavorings" listed on the label has been MSG. In the Heinz website FAQ they state:

Is there any hidden MSG in Heinz Products?

Any of our products that contain Monosodium Glutamate, or MSG, would clearly state this ingredient on the label. There is no hidden MSG in Heinz products.

Now, this might be tricky wording, since MSG is almost identical to a variety additives including autolysed yeast extract. Technically their product can contain autolysed yeast extract and they can still get away with saying it doesn't contain MSG.

I could be wrong, though about the MSG or MSG-like additives. Tomato does have naturally occuring umami of it's own.

[clothier]

what do you eat with your fries?

If I dip them in anything it's sriracha.

Unfortunately tomatoes make my tongue and lips swell thereby diminishing the french fry experience.

OK Camden, I'll bite.

what's sriracha?

and sorry about the tomato allergy

[Camdon]

OK Camden, I'll bite.

what's sriracha?

and sorry about the tomato allergy

Sriracha is a chili garlic sauce.

This thread reminds me of a bottle of imitation catsup that I saw in a health food store back in the '80s. I was curious so I picked it up and read the label and it said that they had to say imitation because there was no sugar in it.

[FistFullaRoux]

More info as found. Take with as many grains of salt as you feel necessary.

This site suggests that the seasonaings are cinnamon, cloves, mace, cayenne pepper, and allspice.

Supposedly, as this site claims:

  "In fact, the ingredients we expect to find in ketchup are so widely known, that the FDA does not allow anything to use a ketchup, catsup, or catchup label unless it has the following ingredients:

• Cooked and strained tomato sauce
  
• Vinegar
  
• Sugar
  
• Salt
  
• Flavored with onion or garlic
  
• Spices; such as cinnamon, cloves, mace, allspice, nutmeg, ginger, and cayenne"
  

That's more thought than I have ever put into the stuff. It's one of those things that is so well done, inexpensive, and common, that I never thought about trying to recreate it. It's like butter or olive oil. You can make your own, but for what real purpose?

Well I'll be damned.

Click here for FDA regulations on ketchup

And evidently there are such things as food-grade hydrochloric acid and food-grade sodium hydroxide (lye)...

Edited April 19, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[scott123]

And evidently there are such things as food-grade hydrochloric acid and food-grade sodium hydroxide (lye)...

Isn't food grade hydrochloric acid used to disinfect the majority of our drinking water as well?

That's really strange that the FDA would allow companies to adjust the PH with hydrochloric acid and lye, when vinegar (acetic acid) is already part of the ingredients. Tomatoes, being a natural product will certainly vary in PH, so some adjustment will be necessary, but why hydrochloric and not acetic acid as part of the adjustment equation? Money? Is hydrochloric acid cheaper?

As far as secret ingredients go, bleach and lye are about as far as you can get from "love", that's for sure. They won't be making it into my ketchup.

[FistFullaRoux]

And now that I think about it, doesn't the process for making bagels involve lye in some form?

[Mabelline]

Lye is used in the processing of hominy, posole, etc. Whereas the natives used a woodash lye. So I have no idea about the use in catsup,perhaps it facilitates the process.

[scott123]

And now that I think about it, doesn't the process for making bagels involve lye in some form?

I believe lye is used to increase the PH of the water bagels are simmered in to facilitate better browning. My bagel recipe uses baking soda for the same purpose. As does my chocolate chip recipe.

[ludja]

Saw this in a book I just took out of the library: Blue Plate Special: The American Diner Cookbook. b7 McKeon and Everett.

In their ketchup (besides tomatoes) are:

chopped onion

chopped red bell pepper

celery seed

cinnamon stick

allspice

mustard seeds

sugar

salt

vinegar

&

paprika

(Equal amounts of all spices except 1.5 x celery seed and 3x paprika and 3x salt)

[beccaboo]

And now that I think about it, doesn't the process for making bagels involve lye in some form?

That's pretzels--you can either boil them with some lye in the water or give them a lye wash to give them their shiny, brown, pretzely-tasting crusts.

[Mabelline]

I love this place! Native Americans used the woodash to eat corn, primarily, but there were some advanced researchers at Arizona State who determined that the woodash supplied many nutrients in the diet.

As far as the bagels, I've always heard that the best were done in the 'lyewater'.