Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

Thank you, Kerry.

Please indulge me again. I just read through the chart you sent, and it mentions Brix. What does brix mean?

Theresa

It's the measurement the refractometer gives you - reflects the percentage of sugar.

[patris]

I suppose I could wait a while and let experience answer this question, but what do you suppose might happen if one left the glucose out of a mango passionfruit PDF made with the Boiron recipe)? I made it on my induction burner for the first time and was so stunned by how quickly it cooked that I ignored that part of my mise. It seems to be gelling nicely, but do I risk it crystallizing on me or something?

[Kerry Beal]

I suppose I could wait a while and let experience answer this question, but what do you suppose might happen if one left the glucose out of a mango passionfruit PDF made with the Boiron recipe)? I made it on my induction burner for the first time and was so stunned by how quickly it cooked that I ignored that part of my mise. It seems to be gelling nicely, but do I risk it crystallizing on me or something?

Probably will crystallize after a period of time - but I'll bet not before they get eaten! Suspect it's more important for long term shelf life.

[patris]

That's a relief. They're likely to be gone inside a week - at work we are partnering on a (non-culinary) project with Goya, which has a plant and distribution facility here. I made the PDF, and will make some marshmallow and mallomars, with their frozen purees to bring to our next team meeting out at the plant, just for fun.

[Kerry Beal]

That's a relief. They're likely to be gone inside a week - at work we are partnering on a (non-culinary) project with Goya, which has a plant and distribution facility here. I made the PDF, and will make some marshmallow and mallomars, with their frozen purees to bring to our next team meeting out at the plant, just for fun.

Lucky them!

[David J.]

I'm trying Paco Torreblanca's version of pate de fruit which uses pectin NH. His calls for "10 g citric acid (lemon juice)" and I'm not clear if that is just 10 g of lemon juice, or 10g of citric acid in some dilution.

10 g of lemon juice works out to a scant tablespoon, and that is for 300g of sugar and 1,000 g of raspberry puree. It seems like it might end up a bit sweet.

I know that this pectin doesn't require acid to set so it is probably just there to counteract the sweetness.

Is this just a tablespoon of lemon juice, and if so, what would be the equivilant if I started with powdered citric acid? If not, is it 10 g of the powder or 10 g of some dilution?

[pastrygirl]

I read it as 10 g of something about as sour as lemon juice, so the substitution would need to be a solution, not straight acid. If I had only powdered citric acid and no lemon juice I would make a solution with the citric acid approximating the acidity of an average lemon, and use 10g of that. Start with 1/2 or 1 tsp powder to 1 TB water, taste and adjust? I haven't used citric acid in a while, and don't have a good idea of how sour it is.

Is that the whole recipe, 300 g sugar, 1kg puree, acid, and pectin? That doesn't sound very sweet to me, not compared to most pate de fruits. The recipes I use have close to equal weights of sugar and puree/juice.

Edited March 16, 2011 by pastrygirl (log)

[David J.]

It's 1000 g puree, 300 g sugar, 80 g pectin NH, and 10 g citric acid (lemon juice).

I'll try it with 10 g of lemon juice and see how it comes out.

[pastrygirl]

Taste the puree once it has the sugar in and see how you like the sweetness. I don't know how forgiving pectin NH is, but hopefully you can adjust the lemon juice more or less to taste.

[AAQuesada]

You don't need to dilute citric acid or make a slurry. Just add it in. My read is he wants you to use citric acid (prob for consistency) and is listing lemon juice as an optional substitution.

Anytime I read ingredient(XXX) the (XXX) is usually a modifier/substitution. Since its not a modifier ie. Onion (small dice) then it most likely an offered substitution. That's how I read it anyway.

[David J.]

It turned out, but wasn't the hit with my wife that I had hoped it would be. I think that I will try it again with 10 g of powdered citric acid and compare.

[Marmalade]

Been making pate de fruits here dozens of times, some successful some not. Looking for some answers still. I make my own fruit purees from fresh fruit. Some of these fruits are not available in the US so I have to just experiment and see what happens, ie. Taxo, Naranjilla (sometimes aka Little Orange-though it doesn't resemble an orange in the least), Passion Fruit. After on and off success with Ecuadorian blackberries (different than the variety you find in North America-these are acidic, dark, and not nearly as sweet initially), I tried something new. Brought the fruit up to 20 Brix just like the Boiron puree before starting the recipe. Then used the Boiron recipe. I am using Chef Rubber's Pate De Fruit pectin. Also, I'm at 10,000 feet nearly, and water boils at 192ish F. What always happens is, the fruit starts to set up once it approaches 70-75 brix on the refractometer, and once it's ready to pour into the slab, it's already turning lumpy which makes it hard to pour and harder to get a nice, smooth, even flat surface. I just can't fathom how you could have time to put the jelly, say, into silicon molds. So what I want is a recipe that will gel after I pour it, not start jelling in the pan before I even have a chance to pour it. What's the problem? Is it my pectin? The altitude? The fruit? I also make a Passion Fruit pate de fruit, and it pours perfectly most of the time, and then gels perfectly in the frame. So I'm thinking, is there too much pectin in the blackberries naturally? I don't know, but any troubleshooting tips would be much appreciated.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

What did you think of the Taxo as a pate fruit? I've always thought that it was a titch acidic, and prefer to use it in helados with cream instead.... Our altitude does present some problems vis a vis gelling in fruit compotes and pates (I'm a good 250 m higher up than you are, and I've despaired of the silicone molds for Mora or Guayaba pates - I just try to bodge them into frames before they solidify entirely, then cut the results with a sharp knife). I think pectin is definitely an issue, and I had good luck by reducing my pectines for Mora, but the Guayaba just doens't behave at all.

[Marmalade]

Taxo is not bad, but it doesn't really stand out on its own as a flavor, I found. People like it who know it, but it's not a blockbuster. I actually prefer a Taxo sorbet much better-I know everyone here makes the ice cream with milk, but I just can't seem to find a way to like it. But the sorbet is killer.

I'll try reducing the pectin for Mora and see what happens. I've done a lot of experimenting but still can't find a solid, failproof way to the pate de fruit to set right every time.

[Kouign Aman]

?more acid? Seems to slow the gelling process.

[minas6907]

Hey Everyone!

I was thinking about making some pate de fruit, I've never done any jellies before. I had a few questions about some recipes.

Firstly, I was looking at the recipe from Chocolates and Confections on page 280. I wanted to try this one, but the formula requires apple compote, which for the first try I rather refrain from including, I dont really want to make something like that for my first run, I may have time tomorrow to do it, but if at all possible, I rather not.

So I was thinking about using the recipe from The Art of the Chocolatier. Notter's formula doesn't require the apple compote, but tartaric acid is used to gel the pectin. Thing is, I really dont have tartaric acid, I have plenty of cream of tartar, but from some google searches I've seen that these aren't the same thing. When I was comparing Greweling's recipe to Notter's, I saw that in Chocolates and Confections, Greweling uses lemon juice as an acid. Both formulas are kind of similar, Grewelings seems to use quite a bit more glucose, though it is a larger yield.

Basically from comparing these two formulas, it seems like I could use Notters recipe and just use some lemon juice. How would I go about the substitution? Let me know if it's ok to post the formulas from these two books.

Also, interesting to note, this site here http://suziesweettooth.com/2011/06/06/raspberry-pate-de-fruits-fruit-jellies/ posted an adapted version on Notter's jellies. She says that the tartaric acid is optional, and you can skip this step. Comparing her recipe to the books, she pretty much just doubled the pectin, and skipped the tartaric acid. I just thought it was interesting, maybe her adding more pectin to the same quantity of pate de fruit mixture, shes less liable to have issues with it not setting up, hmmm.

Anyways, I guess I'm just interested in seeing how I can substitute lemon juice for the Tartaric acid. Any help is appreciated, thanks guys! :-)

[minas6907]

This is very interesting. I check my book The Advanced Professional Pastry Chef on Friberg's pate de fruit recipe, and he doesn't use any pectin. In the paragraph, he says that "that candy becomes firm due to the natural pectin in the fruit in combination with the cooked sugar." It consists of the apple compote, apricots, sugar, and (this was what I thought was interesting) 5 oz. strawberries or 3 T lemon juice. Looks like the Lemon juice would help firm up the jellies, even with out the additional mass that 5 oz. of strawberries would give. He actually doesn't give a temperature to cook to, just has a test to see if the mixture is thick enough. Anywho, thought someone would find that interesting.

[pastrygirl]

Tartaric acid is very strong, and usually mixed with at least equal weight water to form a solution. I think the next closest substitute would be citric acid, which you should be able to find at a health food store or somewhere with a good bulk foods selection. Lemon or lime juice will work too but are not as strong. I'd estimate at least a teaspoon of lemon juice would be needed to substitute per gram of tartaric acid. There does seem to be some leeway in PDF recipes between the balance of pectin, acid, sugar, and finished temperature. Greweling does have a troubleshooting page for fruit jellies, which helps a little to explain the role of each ingredient.

I don't know how thick or sweet the apple compote called for is, as I've never used it. I use either canned pears or apricots in light syrup, pureed with the syrup as a base, then add more concentrated fruit flavors (especially with the pear). Most of the fruit purees the charts are written for (boiron, la frutiere, that other one) have 10% sugar, so if you are using something else or making your own adjust accordingly.

Edited June 26, 2011 by pastrygirl (log)

[minas6907]

Thanks for your reply. The tartaric acid called for is in the form of a solution. I do have critic acid, can I just make a solution from that and use it in place? On a Google search on the subject I found some information suggesting the same thing, but I also found some other misleading information from those searches, so I was a bit hesitant to believe that, but I'll give it a try. I think I just have to mess around with the jellies, I'm just nervous, new area I haven't been in yet.

[dhardy123]

According to Les Vergers Boiron, in their recipe chart:

http://www.boironfreres.com/uk/uk_tableaux.htm

It says " To obtain a tartaric acid solution: Boil 200g of water and add 200g of tartaric acid. Tartaric acid can be replaced by citric acid or lemon juice"

On their FAQ page, they state:

10 g citric acid = 15 g tartaric acid = 120 g lemon juice

Hope that helps?

Edited June 26, 2011 by dhardy123 (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Tartaric is usually available at wine making places.

[dhardy123]

Hey Kerry,

I couldnt find the exact PDF handout from les verges boiron that you had at the chocolate conference. I have it printed, but do you have it electronic?

It might be helpful here

[Kerry Beal]

Apparently now we can attach PDF's. So here is the PDF of the PDF's.

pates_de_fruits 18-22-28.pdf

[minas6907]

Thanks for those tables, I think those will be helpful. I made nectarine PDF today, but they didn't really set up fully, I suspect that, as stated in the .pdf Kerry posted, I let the mixture get too cool when adding the sugar. It says "When adding the sugar, make sure the cooking temperature does not fall below 85° C (185°F) to prevent the pectin gelling."

Anywho, I'll try again later. Also, on all the tables I've seen, nectarines are not mentioned. I guess I'll just keep fooling with this one. Thanks guys!

[minas6907]

Is everyone who's making pate de fruit here using the puree's from Boiron or Perfect Puree? I'm planning on pureeing my own fruit, do you use these table simply as a guide? Or will I not get consistent results with my own fruit puree? The recipe I used in my first attempt was from Chocolates and Confections if anyone was curious.