Veal stock

[Anna N]

Somebody or other, probably Kenji, made stock with bones cleaned of meat ===> no flavor at all.

Thought it was darch.

[gfweb]

might well have been dcarch

[CindyJ]

I generally use veal breast and similar cuts for veal stock... I feel no loss from not adding beef.  In greater PHL, hit up the Russian markets on Bustleton ave for good prices and selection on vealy stuff.

I'm in southern Chester County.  There's a little Italian grocery store/butcher in Wilmington where I get my veal bones.  In fact, I'm heading there this afternoon for that very purpose.  Their price for veal shank bones today -- $1.99/lb! Thanks to TravelMad on CH for introducing me to this gem of a store a year or two ago!

[cdh]

Yeah... if you're in the Brandywine Valley, the jaunt to NE PHL is a long way.  It's a long way for me in the countrified end of  Montgomery County... but definitely worthwhile to do every so often.

[CindyJ]

Yeah... if you're in the Brandywine Valley, the jaunt to NE PHL is a long way.  It's a long way for me in the countrified end of  Montgomery County... but definitely worthwhile to do every so often.

I just posted about my trip to Papa's Market in Wilmington.  > Small  grocery stores don't generally get me all excited, but when I can score 8+ pounds of beautiful veal bones for $16.24, THAT is something to write about!  (I know -- as my kids often tell me, "Get a life, Mom!")

[paul o' vendange]

Sorry to resurrect, but obsessing.  Randomly -

 

Have long considered Thomas Keller a demi-god and tried to learn all I can from him.  "My" veal stock was "his" veal stock, no interpretation whatsoever, for years.  I have a hard time breaking from anything he does, but I've always found the stock a bit red for my truthful taste, and a bit sweet.  I've made Escoffier's stock-espagnole-demi-glace for decades, and it wasn't till coming to TFL and Keller's way, that anything changed. 

 

Just your thoughts: 

 

TFL uses 10 lbs bones, remouillage, a lot more time, to get to 2 quarts.

I only realized today that Bouchon uses half the bones and only 4 hours, to get to the same result - 2 quarts.  Is this a typo, anyone?  I feel like I'm missing something.

 

TFL has aromatics working a total of what, 12 hours?  Yet it works, in my opinion; I don't taste "dead."  It goes against orthodoxy ("....add in and simmer for one more hour.....").  Thoughts?

 

 

[paulraphael]

I haven't made these recipes, but would be surprised if it's a typo. The Bouchon version will just be lighter, less intense. There's a huge range in solids:water ratios used by different chefs for different purposes. 

 

I'd honestly be surprised if Keller is doing anything like these recipes anymore. It would be hard to imagine anyone doing it without a pressure cooker, given the choice, and he's got a choice.

[paul o' vendange]

Hey Paul,

 

Interesting thought, and of course there are a million variations on ratios, components and techniques on any stock.  What piqued me, however, is that for both the veal and "primary," let's call it, chicken stock, both recipes, with few exceptions, are identically worded.  So much so, in fact, that I presumed Bouchon's was merely repeated from TFL, until I saw this halving of both the veal bones, and in essence, the time.  Add to this that TFL does a remouillage and obviously, you end up with a substantially thinner sauce.  Radically thinner, I'd think, though I've never made the Bouchon version.

 

At any rate, just caught the difference today and found it interesting.  In terms of what they're doing today, can't know, of course.  My gut actually tells me this primary stock and the way it's made is really the soul of Keller's cooking, the essence of his cooking philosophy, written in the words of a recipe.  I actually imagine nothing's changed at all.  Would be interesting to know.

[paulraphael]

There have been people on egullet over the years who have worked in Keller's kitchens. Can anyone remember who they are? They should be able to solve this riddle. I remember one of them mentioning that Keller had them measure out mirepoix to the gram. And how tongs were forbidden.

[paul o' vendange]

That would be great to find out, Paul.  The gram thing I hadn't heard, but I guess I'm not surprised.  I did know of the tong thing - if I'm not mistaken, he uses fish turners wherever possible and tongs are basically persona non grata.

[paulraphael]

10 hours ago, paul o' vendange said:

That would be great to find out, Paul.  The gram thing I hadn't heard, but I guess I'm not surprised.  I did know of the tong thing - if I'm not mistaken, he uses fish turners wherever possible and tongs are basically persona non grata.

 

There's a lively discussion about the Tongs Embargo back in the archives. The former TFL cook made one good point in Keller's defense: they didn't serve anything that you'd need tongs for. They didn't even make any brown stocks that would require turning bones in a roasting pan. It was all fish spats, palette knives, fingers, tweezers.

[paul o' vendange]

Hahahah - I love it - "Tongs Embargo."

 

Good explanation, too, thanks Paul.  I'll try to dig that up, interesting subject.

Edited February 26, 2017 by paul o' vendange (log)