buying and preparing fish/seafood

[torakris]

could someone put up the kanji for "salmon belly"? I'd love to try this out but have no idea what to look for...   

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It is sold as harasu ハラス, usually written in katana. It can be preceded by sake (or shake depending on your pronunciation) 、which is the word for salmon. Sometimes it is also specified by type of salmon, サーモン saamon ususally means king salmon and you can also find other types like 紅鮭 benizake sockeye/red salmon.

[prasantrin]

At my Coop, I think the package just says something like "salmon scraps". It's all in kanji, no kana, and it's almost exactly the same as on all the other fish scrap packages. Look for images of "salmon belly flaps" on google, and you can probably find it.

[jamietera]

domo!

[infernooo]

Firstly I would like to say thank you to eGullet members Hiroyuki and Torakris as previous posts of theirs (which I have found by searching the eGullet forums) have helped immensely in my research into this topic.

Basically, I live in Australia (Sydney, Australia to be more specific) and have been trying to track down ootoro (大トロ - ootoro (oh-toe-rhoe)). As one might imagine, it is proving _extremely_ difficult. I have contacted local food experts (Good Living magazine/publication for those of you who have heard of it), but haven't had any luck so far.

My question is this: I am trying to get my hands on the shimofuri ("falling frost") ootoro which has marbled fat much like a piece of wagyu/kobe beef and not strips of fat like most people are used to seeing in tuna.

As previously posted by the 2 members mentioned above, the ootoro can be divided into the marbled and the striped cuts which appear as follows:

1.) "shimofuri" http://web.archive.org/web/20060223152454/...toro-haramo.htm

2.) "dandara" http://web.archive.org/web/20060106112609/...resh/ootoro.htm

OK, now with that preliminary bit of information out of the way, here is my question:

“Kuromaguro”, or Blue Fin Tuna and Minami maguro (Southern bluefin tuna) are obviously the preferred species for this delicacy... can the "shimofuri" type of ootoro be found on other species? For example, Mebachi maguro (bigeye tuna) ?

The reason I ask is that I recently got my hands on some bigeye tuna "belly flap".

Now, I am assuming that either bigeye tuna just doesn't have the shimofuri type of ootoro in it, or that had gone elsewhere and I was given the dandara type. Here are the photos of my score:

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11764164...4507_130107.jpg

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11764164...4507_413331.jpg

http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/11764164...4507_457581.jpg

Larger versions of the images are here:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/991/dsc00014gn8.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2633/dsc00015jt5.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2034/dsc00016pa6.jpg

As you can see there is some marbling, but it was actually pretty damn chewy (and I know how to slice correctly) and definitely was not the experience I was hoping for.

Any ideas/help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Edited April 13, 2007 by infernooo (log)

[torakris]

Not all tuna is the same...

Big eye is prized for its akami ("red" meat) while the best ootoro comes from the kuromaguro (blue fin tuna).

According to this site:

(Mebachi- big eye tuna) In the fall it is also a source of toro (fatty part) when kuromaguro is not available.

According to this site:

yellow fin and big eye are mostly red meat with a very small ootoro.

I wonder if this has too do with the size of the fish? Blue fin are really huge and that ootro section probably gets very little workout while the smaller tunas need to use most their body as they make their way across the ocean to our dinner plates.

Just a guess...

I looked at various pictures of big eye ootro on the internet and didn't see any with shimofuri, they all looked just like your picture. I guess you are going to have to search out a blue fin ootoro.

[Hiroyuki]

This is the very first time that I learned the term "dandara". I searched for the meaning of the term, and came up with this description:

Toro was called abu, shimofuri, dandara, and zuruzuru until then (World War II).

それまでは「アブ」とか「しもふり」「だんだら」「ズルズル」なんて滅茶滅茶な呼ばれ方をされて、

from

http://www.shokuzaishiire.com/isyokudougen/031023.html

So, I assume that toro, shimofuri, and dandara are all synonyms, at least in Japanese.

All I can say is that mebachi has little o-toro,

as this photo shows.

http://www.zukan-bouz.com/saba/maguro/mebatimaguro.html

(Last photo on the right)

[SG-]

Purchased some Otoro for dinner tonite, looks a lot like the "Shimofuri" marbling you described...

[Joon]

I think both the type of fish and size matter, but it also probably differs from fish to fish. I'm lucky enough to live an hour away from a japanese market where I can get (bluefin) chu and oh toro. But they're not necessarily consistent in the marbling of the fats.

Just did a quick search and according to wisegeek.com:

While sushi uses many different types of tuna including yellow fin and big eye, true toro is only taken from blue fin tuna.

. The most valuable toro, otoro, is from the underside of the fish close to the head. Chutoro, a lesser grade, comes from the belly in the middle and back of the fish, and is less marbled than otoro.

So maybe it's like torakris said - related to size?

Coincidentally last night I got a piece of "toro" from a local sushi shop and the whole piece was WHITE with insane amounts of fat in it. I've never seen this before. Is this normal?

Edited April 25, 2007 by Joon (log)

[budrichard]

Blue fin tuna is available in the summer unfrozen from Browne Trading in Maine. As stated these are BIG fish. A last belly section I purchased un-trimmed was tough as compared to other types of Toro or O'Toro I have purchased. The toughness may relate to the size of the fish. Toro fresh from Hawaii from another source was much more tender but I believe a smaller fish.-Dick

[nonblonde007]

I have a large hunk of beautiful sushi-grade frozen salmon and frozen salmon roe that I ordered online a while ago. (being land-locked in the southern US, I have to order it this way.) I have searched for a great recipe to showcase the perfect raw flavors of both, and havn't come up with any yet. We have allready done sashimi, and I would like to do some sort of japanese style maridnade or preperation, I just love the subtle flavors. Any ideas for me? Perhaps a light marinade in sake or wasabi? Flash sear? I am lost, please help!

[Hiroyuki]

One example: Sake tataki (seared salmon)

http://dt125kazuo.blog22.fc2.com/blog-entry-601.html

(Japanese only, but the photos will tell you how to do it, right?)

Sear salmon in a frying pan with salad oil. Cool in water with ice. Slice and serve it with grated daikon and soy sauce (or ponzu).

As for ikura, here is a previous thread.

[nonblonde007]

Thank you for the suggestion, I will try this with the remaining piece of salmon tomorow night. For tonight, i just stuck with the same ol' same ol'. It's in the dinner thread.It's pretty hard to beat the taste of fresh salmon all alone!

[SheenaGreena]

I'm trying to eat more japanese food, because

1) korean food is too difficult and time consuming for me (yes it's true)

2) it's really healthy

3) most importantly, it tastes delicious!!!!!

I have a pretty decent general knowledge of japanese food, however when it comes to preparing fish japanese or korean style...I just rub it with salt and grill it. Are there any other popular japanese preparations when it comes to fish? I eat a lot (A LOT) of mackerel...so please keep this in mind. I love the oily taste of mackerel...I think I would consider it one of my favorite types of fish to eat. How about other types of fish like salmon, milk fish, tilapia (gag), etc. <-------these are the types of fish that I can buy in the area

[GlorifiedRice]

OMG Sheena I LOVE Mackeral. I sometimes order 4-6 Saba handrolls...

[JasonTrue]

As you know, I'm vegetarian, but Hiromi certainly eats fish when we go out, and occasionally at home. Most of the time she prefers simple preparations.

She usually eats salmon raw in the first day, perhaps with wasabi and soy sauce. Then, if any is left, as tataki, basically seared and left as close to raw inside as possible. There is a kind of miso flavored nabe with salmon too.

Other than shioyaki, mackerel is sometimes salt cured then vinegar brined.

Nimono (simmered) with dashi, soy sauce and mirin for certain types of fish, like "karei" (a category including flounder and halibut). (This technique is, I think, somewhat analogous to Korean "chorim" except seasoned very lightly).

Some fish can be grilled with the seasoning inside, using something like miso and scallions.

Buri (yellowtail or mullet?) can be glazed with mirin and soy sauce, one of very few instances where the phrase "something (no) teriyaki" is actually used in Japanese.

Edited September 11, 2007 by JasonTrue (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Saba no miso ni is very popular.

http://japanesefood.about.com/od/seafoodfi...abanomisoni.htm

[SheenaGreena]

these preparations sound fantastic, thanks everyone.

jason, tell me more about marinating mackerel in vinegar? Do I have to cook it afterwards?

eta: hiroyuki, do you think that adding ginger to the simmered mackerel helps to get rid of the fishy smell?

I find that the main problem of cooking mackerel in my one bedroom apt, is the smell. I don't mind it, but my god it stays in the kitchen FOR HOURS. And when my boyfriend comes home and smells it, he makes this special "mackerel" face

Edited September 11, 2007 by SheenaGreena (log)

[Peter the eater]

Everything tastes better when it is poached in butter!

[Hiroyuki]

eta:  hiroyuki, do you think that adding ginger to the simmered mackerel helps to get rid of the fishy smell? 

I find that the main problem of cooking mackerel in my one bedroom apt, is the smell.  I don't mind it, but my god it stays in the kitchen FOR HOURS.  And when my boyfriend comes home and smells it, he makes this special "mackerel" face 

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Yes. In Japan, ginger is usually added to what we call "ao zakana" (lit. blue fish) like aji (horse mackerel), iwashi (sardine), and saba (mackerel). But adding it won't solve your problem.

One possible solution: Just say to him, "Love me, love my fish!"

[shinju]

My favorite fish is also saba. Normally I like my fish grilled very simply with salt with a side of daikonoroshi and shoyu. I can have this every other day.

Another simple method with saba is to make several cuts (not all the way through) and insert lemon or lime slices before grilling. This is very nice too.

Sometimes I like saba no misoni with gobo. You cook saba with sake, mirin, sugar, soyu, and miso.

With buri, I like buri daikon.

Another style I like somestimes is grilling fish with some type mayo sauce such as mayo, white miso, minced umeboshi. Spread over fish and grill. But, you will need to do some shitaaji with fish first (sake and shoyu sprinkled over fish for 10 minutes before grilling).

[shinju]

This is also good too with salmon.

Sake to Kinokono Hoiruyaki

2 servings:

2 pieces of salmon

1 pack enoki mushrooms

1/2 pack shimeji

1/2 to 1 negi (long green onion), cut in 2 inches long

Tare:

1 T sesame paste

2 T miso

1 T sake

1 T mirin

1/2 T sesame oil

1/2 tsp shoyu

pepper to taste

1 T butter

Place salmon, enoki and shimeji mushrooms and negi in a aluminum foil large enough to cover completely like a pocket. Make tare and spread tare between the two salmon in aluminum foil. Dot with some butter. Completely close it and bake 10-15 minutes in oven toaster or 375 oven.

BTW Sheena, my nephew also attends a grad school in upstate NY and wanted to cook his favorite fish (saba) in his apartment without offending other occupants. He was taking saba to Japanese or Korean restaurants so that they could grill the fish for him. Hearing that, I bought him one of those smokeless electric fish griller. He loves it and uses that to cook mostly everyhing now. Although it does help to lessen the smell of fish, it does not totaly eliminate it. I have one too and I use that to grill all my fish now.

[Hiroyuki]

Talking of salmon, I'd like to mention sake fureku (salmon flakes), like this. My favorite style is add only sake (I mean rice wine) to the sake (salmon), and pour some soy sauce at the time I have it.

Also, my saba furikake is more like flakes than furikake.

[rykomatsu]

Hello,

I've been lurking for a while but here goes my first post

I don't　recall ever doing this with Saba myself as I've always had it grilled, but salmon kasu-zuke is a favorite of mine. Kasu's a byproduct of making sake and it looks a little bit like really pale miso. Put kasu in a ziplock bag, then put the fish in there. I massage the bag lightly a little bit and then stick it in the fridge for 2-3 days usually. After that, stick it in a toaster oven or grill it.

It results in a very robust flavor rich in "umami" with a distinct fermented/protein-ish undertone for lack of a better explanation. A few of my friends enjoy making kasu-zuke from saba so it can't be all that bad. I really enjoy salmon and hamachi-kama kasu-zuke.

You should be able to find Kasu at your local Japanese grocery store

cheers!

[Hiroyuki]

Hello,

I've been lurking for a while but here goes my first post

I don't　recall ever doing this with Saba myself as I've always had it grilled, but salmon kasu-zuke is a favorite of mine.  Kasu's a byproduct of making sake and it looks a little bit like really pale miso.  Put kasu in a ziplock bag, then put the fish in there.  I massage the bag lightly a little bit and then stick it in the fridge for 2-3 days usually.  After that, stick it in a toaster oven or grill it.

It results in a very robust flavor rich in "umami" with a distinct fermented/protein-ish undertone for lack of a better explanation.  A few of my friends enjoy making kasu-zuke from saba so it can't be all that bad.  I really enjoy salmon and hamachi-kama kasu-zuke.

You should be able to find Kasu at your local Japanese grocery store

cheers!

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Hi, komatsu, toaster oven to cook it? You are my buddy!

[rykomatsu]

Hi, komatsu, toaster oven to cook it?  You are my buddy!

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lol

Edited September 13, 2007 by rykomatsu (log)