Pizza Stone

[Sandra Levine]

That's interesting, Jinmyo.  Do you think it might be because pizza came to Japan via America rather than Italy?  Corn is such an American ingredient (origin, use) although, of course, there's also polenta in Italy.

[Jinmyo]

Heh. Japanese pizza toppings include mayonaisse, squid, carrots, liver. Just about anything. Corn is tremendously popular though. Often with mayo.

There's just no reason for it.

It's common to speak of Japan imitating other cultures. This is true but it has to be understood that from the Japanese point of view, such things as baseball, hot dogs (usually tempured in the soft bun), motorcycle gangs, and rock and roll are Japanese things. They've grown up with these things.

Corn on pizza just makes sense to them. It's a wildly exotic thing, corn. Not particularly American.

[Sandra Levine]

It's common to speak of Japan imitating other cultures.

I think of it as "absorbing" rather than imitating.

[Jinmyo]

Here's a link to a site on Japanese pizzas: clicku.

[Robert Schonfeld]

I'd just add a couple of things to the good advice given here about pizza.

Use a low protein flour, or mix a little pastry flour with your regular flour. The low protein flour makes for a weaker gluten web, and more "stretchability" of the dough.

As mentioned, it's a good idea to use as little yeast as possible. The resulting longer proofing time will allow you to gently turn out and deflate the dough more than once. Also as mentioned, no rolling pin. If your dough seems stubborn, let it rest. At least 20 minutes at normal kitchen temp's.

If you can get thick, unglazed ceramic tiles, or kiln shelving, you'll be happier than you will be with a pizza stones, as most stones are too thin to really retain heat well. An inch or more is good.

[helenas]

If you can get thick, unglazed ceramic tiles, or kiln shelving, you'll be happier than you will be with a pizza stones, as most stones are too thin to really retain heat well. An inch or more is good.

Has anybody tried the HearthKit, that Steve Klc mentioned on some other thread, and i've seen advertised in some food magazines, endorsed by many baking people, including the relevant to the topic of this thread Scicolone ( authors of Pizza, Any Way You Slice It")

[sng sling]

We are long time users of clay tiles for baking pizza, bread, etc. Sometimes, I forget and leave them in even when braising or finishing a dish in the oven.  We have a miserable quality oven in our place, and the stones seem to even out the temperature fluctuations.  

However, for pizza, we've been using our gas grill (too much hassle using charcoal on our apartment balcony) to grill the dough and then finish the pizza.  Using a typical dough recipe, we make about 200 grams of dough into a 12 inch pie (very thin), grill it (covered) for a couple minutes on the first side, flip it for a minute, and take it off.  The first side down becomes the top, so we put a little oil on the crust, top it as usual, and then slide it back onto the covered grill for a couple minutes.  The bottom chars a bit (have to watch it), and the toppings cook through. Relative to oven pizza, the bottom gets crispier and the char is more like wood oven pizza.  It also avoids a hot kitchen because of the damn oven!n (We are in Singapore and there is no A/C in the kitchen.)

We tend to make two or three crusts at a time, and freeze them -- far superior to Bobili or other store bought crusts....

[tommy]

sng sling, that sounds incredible!  doe the dough go right on the grates?

someone asked if i've made any more, and sadly i have to say no. although, i always use it for frozen french bread pizzas.  

[Jinmyo]

someone asked if i've made any more, and sadly i have to say no.

 

[tommy]

i know.  it must be heartbreaking for you all.

[Jinmyo]

Just want you to eat well and be happy all of the time, tommy.  

[sng sling]

sng sling, that sounds incredible!  doe the dough go right on the grates?

Sure do, though if you're as clumsy as I am, you'll occasionally get some wrinkled pies!  A peel would be perfect for this, but I  use an aluminum pizza pan dusted w/ flour and shake the dough onto the grates.

I brush the grates (reasonably) clean and rub w/ a little oil.  Never had a sticking problem or the dough falling through the slots.  As the dough firms up, you can flip it w/ your fingers or tongs -- obvoisly before topping!  Haven't tried it, but this approach might make a decent foccaccia as well.

[JSD]

I bought some 6 x 6 unglazed tiles at Home Depot at 39 cents each, and use these for pizza and for bread.  If they break, no big deal, and obviously the overall size is adjustable.  By the way, I didn't think of this myself, Julia Child suggests this in one of her books from way back (maybe from one of the original Mastering the Art of French Coooking??)

[Jinmyo]

JD, the tiles can be laid into a sheet pan. Is that what you do?

[JSD]

I just lay them directly on one of the racks, lined up in rows.  They don't fall.  Actually, I just leave them in there all the time. I brush off cornmeal which would burn otherwise, and I also have to be careful because my oven puts on the broiler automatically when it's preheating unless I do a timed bake.  I thought it might break the tiles if they were broiled.  So far so good.  And like I said, only 39 cents each, so the whole thing costs only $2.50!  I bought extras so I could put some in the other oven if needed.  We also tried them on the barbeque once when it was really too hot to cook, to make pizzas outside.  I think it would work, but there was a problem with the tiles getting too hot.  I think it's worth investigating further.

[tommy]

yaaaaay! i tried again, with better results than the last few (for all of you at home keeping score). the crust wasn't as thin as i would have liked, but it was crispy, just like i like it.

mushrooms, fresh basil, fresh tomato, and hot peppers.

any thoughts on how to get that dough thinner? i worked it for quite some time, taking breaks even. however, i didn't have the time [impatient to a fault] and strive for immediate gratification[premature ejaculator].

tips anyone?

[awbrig]

...

[Stone]

Alton Brown did a show on pizza and spent a lot of time on how to stretch out the dough properly. Link.

[mynamejoe]

tommy, I take it you are interested in learning how to do it by hand, not by rolling pin? I'll post the by hand method, if you want.

[Robert Schonfeld]

tommy, I take it you are interested in learning how to do it by hand, not by rolling pin? I'll post the by hand method, if you want.

I'd also be interested in seeing it. Thanks.

[johnjohn]

I'd be interested in a pizza sauce recipe. Do you cook the sauce?

johnjohn

[tommy]

mynamejoe, no pin. it has been suggested that by hand is the best method, so share the hand method if you have one.

to clarify, this is pizza place bought dough. i assume it's ready to go.

johnjohn, i did cook the sauce. a simple tomato sauce. canned whole tomatoes, garlic, onions (sweated), dried oregano and basil, s/p, olive oil, cooked and put through a mill. i wanted to get it as thick as possible so as not to add much liquid to the toppings.

[mynamejoe]

First, the visual aid: right click and "save target as" if left clicking doesn't work (5.23mb mpg file)

First, toss the doughball in flour. Flatten the dough out with your fingertips on a smooth, floured surface (stainless steel, marble or countertop). Place the edge of your left hand on the edge of the flattened dough so the side of the tip of your littlle finger is at the 12:00 position. Place your right fingers so the tips are touching your left little finger, holding your fingers together with only about 1"(2.54cm) of your fingers actually on the dough. Now, use your left hand turn the dough counter-clockwise, keeping your right hand stationary. When your hands get out of each other's way, bring your left hand fingers down onto the dough the same way that you initially placed your right fingers. Then, let your fingers on both hands spread apart and stop when your hands are about 1" apart. For subsequent stretches, you won't need to start with your hands as close together and you'll end up with your hands further apart. Just be sure you are stretching out the edge of the dough between your hands mostly, not stretching across the middle; you'll end up with a nasty thin spot in the middle. Stop when the pizza is either the thickness you want, or when you can't stretch it further. Generally, 1 ounce of pizza equals 1" of pizza.

-If you end up with some spots that are thicker than you want, use the finger-spreading technique with your hand directly on the thick spot.

-If you watch the video, you'll see the guy pick the dough up and slap it around. This is not a necessary step; more than anything else, he's shaking off excess flour.

-Starting out reasonably slow with medium pressure on the dough would probably be a good way to start.

-If this feels uncomfortable to you, it may be because I'm left-handed. Just switch which hand is doing what and the direction you rotate the dough.

-credit for visual aid: http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/index.html

[Dana]

We went to Italy last fall, and our housekeeper made us pizza one night (in the villa's wood-burning oven - to die for). Anyway, the sauce she made was this very simple one that I've used a lot and gotten great results with:

One can tomatoes, undrained

salt and pepper

oregano

evoo

Buzz with the emersion blender (she did it right in the can). Don't cook. Don't use too much sauce for the pie.

It's definitely better to put the toppings on AFTER the dough is on the peel.

I think we'll have pizza tonight.

[spqr]

We went to Italy last fall, and our housekeeper made us pizza one night (in the villa's wood-burning oven - to die for). Anyway, the sauce she made was this very simple one that I've used a lot and gotten great results with:

One can tomatoes, undrained

salt and pepper

oregano

evoo

Buzz with the emersion blender (she did it right in the can). Don't cook. Don't use too much sauce for the pie.

It's definitely better to put the toppings on AFTER the dough is on the peel.

I think we'll have pizza tonight.

I too use a no-cook sauce for pizza, derived from the recipe appearing in Best Recipes, form the Cook's Illustrated folks. For a 4-cup of flour bread recipe - to make 4 personal-sized pizzas, I use a 14-oz can of whole plum tomatoes, tomatoes only, throw away the liquid, two cloves of garlic, three or more (depending) chopped chile de Arbol and a drizzle of olive oil. Drop garlic and chiles into food processor and process until they are finely minced. Add tomatoes, oil, salt and pepper and whizz until smooth. Voila: sauce!

I make 4 pizzas at a time with the above recipe, and I usually eat one pizza from the batch and freeze the others for later in the week. I form and top the pizzas on a sheet of parchment paper, and I slide the whole shebang, parchment and all, onto my pizza stone that's been preheating at 500 F for about an hour. The parchment makes it simple to assembly line the pizzas, and there's no net loss on the texture of the crust for baking it on the parchment.

Good homemade pizza rules!