Onion Confit

[patti]

Is anybody looking in?

I think I need to set it on low now, as much of the liquid has been reduced. The onions are soft and beginning to carmelize nicely.  What do you think?

Confit after 7 hours.

That is true color in the photo. I had to move it out of the kitchen light -- it kept coming out red.   

The house smells divinely rich and earthy.   

I want to eat some now!  But I'll be patient, it needs more time. And if it continues like this it will be good with the braised short ribs tonight. 

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Damn, my garage sale West Bend must be faulty (plus, no little blue barns and trees on the side). It is rectangular, and a lovely country beige, with a brown floral spray. Anyway, I'd have loved to have had gorgeous confit in seven hours, but it took me 24. Damn, you're good! Next time it's on high (5) all the way.

[jayt90]

On another note, has anyone tried pressure cooker onion confit? I'm not sure how that would turn out, I'm guessing a slightly higher pressure would caremalise the sugars faster leading to a rich, brown confit without any blackness from carbonation.

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Well, I tried the pressure cooker today, and it doesn't help much. Iput in 6 large onion, 1 butter stick, 1/4c. demi glace, s&p, and cooked under pressure 30 min.

The result was soft, sweet, and not carmelised. I'll have to finish it over a low burner, or in the oven, but I'm not sure it will come around. The texture is so soft now, and I think I'll end up with onion porridge.

[fifi]

Well, I tried the pressure cooker today, and it doesn't help much. Iput in 6 large onion, 1 butter stick, 1/4c. demi glace, s&p, and cooked under pressure 30 min.

The result was soft, sweet, and not carmelised. I'll have to finish it over a low burner, or in the oven, but I'm not sure it will come around.  The texture is so soft now, and I think I'll end up with onion porridge.

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I am afraid that you are probably right. Thanks for takin' one for the team.

[lovebenton0]

Is anybody looking in?

I think I need to set it on low now, as much of the liquid has been reduced. The onions are soft and beginning to carmelize nicely.  What do you think?

Confit after 7 hours.

That is true color in the photo. I had to move it out of the kitchen light -- it kept coming out red.   

The house smells divinely rich and earthy.   

I want to eat some now!  But I'll be patient, it needs more time. And if it continues like this it will be good with the braised short ribs tonight. 

←

Damn, my garage sale West Bend must be faulty (plus, no little blue barns and trees on the side). It is rectangular, and a lovely country beige, with a brown floral spray. Anyway, I'd have loved to have had gorgeous confit in seven hours, but it took me 24. Damn, you're good! Next time it's on high (5) all the way.

←

I cooked mine the entire time after that first 20 minutes with a foil cap on it. I did tear the foil at one corner to make about a half square inch vent to release the moisture. Except of course when I checked about every two hours to stir it because I couldn't stand not to.

Actually it was confit in 11 hours. I set it down to med low (2) at the 7 hr point, for another couple of hours, then to low (1) for the next two hours while short ribs were braising to completely finish to this incredible marmalade stage.

Then we ate it for dinner topping baked potatoes, with the short ribs braised with beer/bacon/shallot/garlic/bayleaf/thyme, and a broccoli and scallion gratin with jack cheese and gorgonzola.

My mr was licking his plate! The confit is in! This was a small batch, used all the onions I had, and 2 lbs doesn't go far. I do have a full half pint jar left. Next time I will do much more. There was a bit more oil/fat at the end than was necessary, about a Tbsp in excess, but no fear, I used it in the gratin.

[Shalmanese]

How much does your confit reduce by? Last time I did it, 2kg of onions reduced down to 200mL of confit which is roughly a 10:1 reduction. Given that most people are doing only 6 onions at a time, which works out to less than a kg of onions, do you really only end up with 100gm of confit? Thats hardly enough to scrape onto a few slices of toast!

Maybe we should organised an egullet confit cookoff where a group of people organise a 100kg shipment of onions at wholesale price and then make a years worth of confit for each person.

[NulloModo]

I tried another batch last night, with red onions.

My issue with the confit however is that it always comes out really sweet, the natural sugars of the onions seem to concentrate.

Does anyone know of onions that are lower in natural sugars? I would love to make a more savory confit with a little more bite and less of the sweet onion flavor, where should I turn?

[lovebenton0]

I tried another batch last night, with red onions.

My issue with the confit however is that it always comes out really sweet, the natural sugars of the onions seem to concentrate.

Does anyone know of onions that are lower in natural sugars?  I would love to make a more savory confit with a little more bite and less of the sweet onion flavor, where should I turn?

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Well, I'm not sure what I did, but the onion confit I made yesterday is not overly sweet, just sweet enough, and quite flavorful. If you go by the advice that fifi posted, i.e. sweet onions cook up less sweet than sharp onions you would actually end up with a less sweet confit. However, the other point is that the sweets carry less flavor, but perhhaps with the addition of other herbs you might tailor your confit to a more specific purpose. And maybe the use of the red wine in mine opposed to the sweeter port had something to do with the less sweet factor, also I added no sugar, at all. Also I did not use butter -- which is naturally sweet, but used rendered chicken fat with the EVOO.

And hopefully, someone with much more confit experience than I have, will jump in here for you, NulloModo.

 

Well, I tried the pressure cooker today, and it doesn't help much. Iput in 6 large onion, 1 butter stick, 1/4c. demi glace, s&p, and cooked under pressure 30 min.

The result was soft, sweet, and not carmelised. I'll have to finish it over a low burner, or in the oven, but I'm not sure it will come around.  The texture is so soft now, and I think I'll end up with onion porridge.

I am afraid that you are probably right. Thanks for takin' one for the team.

Just a comment here, jayt -- if the purpose for trying the confit in the pressure cooker was to insure the softness of the onions then subsequently finish it by crockpot or in the oven (I remember a discussion upthread about the onions remaining too firm for some), then 30 minutes in a pressure cooker is a long time for sliced onions! I would suggest 3 to 4 minutes at the most -- if that is your intent. If you were just seeing what it would do and taking one for the team on onion confit in a PC, then disregard all of this, except my thanks for doing so. And use the onions for cream of onion soup!

[FoodMan]

Ok, I know this is lazy but I do not want to have to wade through all 12 pages of this great thread. I plan on making some confit pretty soon. Here is my intended procedure:

Slice about 6-10 yellow onions

throw in the slow cooker or in a large pot over very low heat with about 1/4 olive oil and 1/4 cup butter (can duck fat be used ?).

Cook on low for several hours, stirring a few times until nicely brown and caramalized.

Am I on the right track here? should I use more fat or less?

edit to add: I just noticed Lovebenton's recipe on this page, I will use that as my starting point.

Thanks,

Elie

[Shalmanese]

I have been using white onions and enjoy the sweetness that comes out and harness it, if I want to tone it down, I cut it with a bit of balsamic and that seems to balance out the sweetness. I imagine Vidalias would give you a more balanced confit.

I was thinking that, even with the PC, it would take significantly more than 30 mins. Try maybe 2 or 3 hours? You would still have to reduce down the cooking liquid somehow though so I guess that negates the advantage of the PC.

Do the people who get crunchy confits salt at the very beginning of cooking? I've found that when sauteing onions, forgetting to salt at the beginning leads sometimes to inexplicably raw tasting onions, even after 20 minutes on high heat. Maybe thats the reason.

[winesonoma]

I cook mine for 18 hours in a crock pot. Not sure if you are getting the point. These are not sautéed onions.

Edited December 5, 2004 by winesonoma (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

Failure!

I used five or six onions, with some butter and a little bit of turkey stock. Put them in the slow cooker on low, right before going to bed. Checked them in the morning: they'd sweated, but weren't at all caramelized. I turned them up to high and let them go for another nine or so hours... They're kind of caramelized, and very sweet, but even after almost 24 hours, haven't collapsed into the sort of oniony sludge that I was looking for. V. disappointing.

[fifi]

Failure!

I used five or six onions, with some butter and a little bit of turkey stock.  Put them in the slow cooker on low, right before going to bed.  Checked them in the morning: they'd sweated, but weren't at all caramelized.  I turned them up to high and let them go for another nine or so hours... They're kind of caramelized, and very sweet, but even after almost 24 hours, haven't collapsed into the sort of oniony sludge that I was looking for.  V. disappointing.

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Keep going. Put the cooker on high and take the lid off. How much turkey stock did you use? I don't think any of us have used stock. You really don't want to add more liquid. You are really trying to get rid of water at the same time that the sugars in the onion are caramelizing. I added glace de viande which really isn't much liquid. But, I have done it without, since I am out of it, and the results were still very good. You said "some" butter. Maybe you don't have enough fat. For six or so really big onions, enough to fill the crockpot to the top, I use one stick of butter and a half cup of olive oil.

[Shalmanese]

My theory is that the sugars don't really start caramelising properly until nearly all the liquid is gone, the increased concentration of trace elements brings up the boiling point to such a stage where the sugars start to decompose. So if you have excess liquid, it can go for very long without turning brown but can then progress to char very quickly if you fail to keep the heat low and steady once all the liquid is gone.

[Andrew Fenton]

Hmm, that makes sense. I didn't use much stock (a couple of spoons of reduced stock); on the other hand, not much butter, either. I'll try further reduction...

[fifi]

My theory is that the sugars don't really start caramelising properly until nearly all the liquid is gone, the increased concentration of trace elements brings up the boiling point to such a stage where the sugars start to decompose. So if you have excess liquid, it can go for very long without turning brown but can then progress to char very quickly if you fail to keep the heat low and steady once all the liquid is gone.

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Also, if you don't have enough fat in there to transmit the heat evenly you are going to get into trouble. I don't think you can make a low fat onion confit.

[lovebenton0]

I was thinking that, even with the PC, it would take significantly more than 30 mins. Try maybe 2 or 3 hours? You would still have to reduce down the cooking liquid somehow though so I guess that negates the advantage of the PC.

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You would have completely emulsified onions, and probably burned emulsified onions and PC at that time range! Way before that you could have cream of onion soup with just a little wisking and added cream.

The pressure cooker might be good for a few minutes to get it started if someone needs to sweat and collapse fast -- say before going to bed -- then transfer to the crockpot to finish for however many hours that takes. We seem to be all over the clock on that, depending on our equipment.

I'm doing a second try today -- with more onions, to do a bigger batch. I'm going to stick with the yellow and purple combo with the red wine, just up the proportions a bit for the greater weight. Two big purple onions (about 1 lb) and another 2-1/2 lbs of the yellow onions. Bought a three lb bag last night of the yellow, so they're smaller onions to start.

BTW, the onion confit on toasted bread (mine was a sweet potato boule I baked recently -- not really a sweet bread, but a rich dough) topping a few smears of Port Salut cheese and wow! what a nice lunch.

Thanks again everyone for all this input. I feel like a kid with a new toy.

[fifi]

Judith, you have me thinking about confit again. (I still have a little in the fridge but I need to replenish.) Looking at your fresh bay and thyme is what got to me. Sometimes I will take a simple recipe and play with it by going way over the top with one of the components, to the point that it becomes a whole different thing. I am thinking about the herbs we add to our simple confit. What if you added a whole bunch to the point that you have an "herb" confit. In all of my versions so far the bay and thyme were only there as a background note. What if you took a strong herb like rosemary, added a whole bunch of it and called it "rosemary confit"? I am "thinking aloud" here and just wondering what ya'll think.

[lovebenton0]

Judith, you have me thinking about confit again. (I still have a little in the fridge but I need to replenish.) Looking at your fresh bay and thyme is what got to me. Sometimes I will take a simple recipe and play with it by going way over the top with one of the components, to the point that it becomes a whole different thing. I am thinking about the herbs we add to our simple confit. What if you added a whole bunch to the point that you have an "herb" confit. In all of my versions so far the bay and thyme were only there as a background note. What if you took a strong herb like rosemary, added a whole bunch of it and called it "rosemary confit"? I am "thinking aloud" here and just wondering what ya'll think.

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This is intriguing, fifi. When I did my confit I adjusted it a bit from the other suggested recipes because of 1) ingredients on hand, 2) and more importantly to me, thinking about how I wanted to use it. I used as much herb in my small batch as was suggested for the larger batches you all had been doing. Perhaps that's another reason why mine does not have that "cloying" sweetness some have mentioned. . . . hmmmm.

The idea of an over the top rosemary/onion confit, basil confit (I'm really thinking of my warmly aromatic cinnamon basil ), or how about a mint/onion confit, could be very interesting. You want to experiment with me? I think we could do a do for the OC team, and each try a different herb and see what the results are. Are you up for testing? Anyone else? Jump in here.

[andiesenji]

I do a onion and shallot confit with sage, sumac and hot peppers. I use this as a base for marmalade which is fantastic with wild game.

I actually make an infusion with the sage, sumac and hot pepper (usually chile pequin) and add it about half-way through the carmelizing process.

The sumac, found in any middle eastern market, has a lemony flavor but not as much acid as lemon itself, to interfere with the carmelizing.

Edited December 5, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

[fifi]

Oh dear. This thread may go on forever.

Judith, I am thinking of doing a rosemary confit. I will schlep some of it to Chicago to accompany the pork roast for Christmas dinner. Andie brings up a good point about adding the herbs later in the process. When making the chicken and stock for Mayhaw Man's chicken pie, I found that the herbs added at the beginning lost a lot of their punch with the long simmering. The question is, when is the optimum time to add them? I would think that you could get away with adding rosemary sooner than you could something like cinnamon basil. (Oh my, that sounds good.) Also, would you tie them up in cheesecloth so that you don't have all of those leaves in there? That might be more of an issue with rosemary than with basil, for instance. Now I am thinking mint onion confit would be a killer with lamb. What a rif on the traditional mint jelly! We may be on to something here, ladies.

edit to add: Andie, I have passed your excellent suggestion on to my sister. If the nephew gets a feral hog on the next trip, they are likely to have that for Christmas. The sage and pepper combo sounds wonderful. I like the idea of the shallots as well. I am wondering if lemon balm would serve in place of the sumac. She has some of that growing as well as the sage.

Edited December 5, 2004 by fifi (log)

[andiesenji]

The advantage of using an infusion, instead of the leafy herbs, makes a nicer finished product.

There are no little bits of mysterious stuff that might make people wonder if it is edible.

I crush the leaves and spices and pour boiling water, just enough to cover by about an inch or so, over the crushed material and use something to weight it down so it all remains covered with water.

You can use something like a teaball or one of the large mesh holders, made specifically for this, but don't tie them in cloth. Unless you have something like nylon mesh, there is some flavor carryover that I don't like.

You can also put them in a coffee filter and staple the top closed and put it in the bottom of the pot and put a spoon on it to weight it down.

Let it steep for at least an hour and if you can, keep it warm. If you have a warming burner that works or if you put it in a pyrex measure (no metal except for the staples) you can nuke it for 30 seconds every 15 minutes or so to keep it at the correct temperature.

Strain and taste, mixing 1/2 teaspoon into a tablespoon of warm water to get an idea of how the final result will be. Straight it will taste far too strong for you to get the true taste.

[lovebenton0]

Oh dear. This thread may go on forever.

Judith, I am thinking of doing a rosemary confit. I will schlep some of it to Chicago to accompany the pork roast for Christmas dinner. Andie brings up a good point about adding the herbs later in the process. When making the chicken and stock for Mayhaw Man's chicken pie, I found that the herbs added at the beginning lost a lot of their punch with the long simmering. The question is, when is the optimum time to add them? I would think that you could get away with adding rosemary sooner than you could something like cinnamon basil. (Oh my, that sounds good.) Also, would you tie them up in cheesecloth so that you don't have all of those leaves in there? That might be more of an issue with rosemary than with basil, for instance. Now I am thinking mint onion confit would be a killer with lamb. What a rif on the traditional mint jelly! We may be on to something here, ladies. 

edit to add: Andie, I have passed your excellent suggestion on to my sister. If the nephew gets a feral hog on the next trip, they are likely to have that for Christmas. The sage and pepper combo sounds wonderful. I like the idea of the shallots as well. I am wondering if lemon balm would serve in place of the sumac. She has some of that growing as well as the sage.

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Yes, I like the idea of later herb addition too, fifi. Thanks, Andie! Adding the herbs later might be just the thing. As mine did not take over 11 hours, perhaps I ended up with more of the herb flavor than one cooked for 18 hours or more. That would seem likely.

I was thinking lamb when I mentioned the mint. and I have a nice bed of mint out in the yard. I don't do the mint jelly thing with lamb, but I do think the mint onion confit could be outstanding! We usually do lamb for Christmas when we stay put, and we are definitely "put" here this year. My mr is on call for work all of Christmas week. I don't mind, it will be more relaxing this year, and for a change we haven't invited anyone to stay here for several days either.

Rosemary. I think I would contain it if I were using rosemary, because of the hardness of the leaves, as you suggested, fifi. The basil will become part of confit as the thyme leaves did when they disintegrated off the twigs during cooking. Maybe I should add the basil about half way through cooking/carmelization, as Andie noted -- knowing what that looks and feels like now. That's good, I can wait to pick some more fresh when the rain lets up -- or better yet let Chuck do it when he gets home.

edit to add: I just saw your infusion method, Andie, thanks!

Edited December 5, 2004 by lovebenton0 (log)

[andiesenji]

Remember the basic idea is that you are doing a reduction.

Just as you do not add salt to stock early on as it will concentrate more as it reduces and will end up so salty it is inedible at the end of the process.

Anything with flavor that you add early on will concentrate as the mixture reduces so you allow most of the reduction to occur which is in the first half of the cooking, then add part of the seasoning liquid, continute cooking and then taste. If it needs more you can always add more, but once you add it you can't take it away.

Herbs like rosemary and sage can become overwhelming when concentrated.

Fennel, on the other hand, seems to dissipate with longer cooking.

I like to use loveage for the celery flavor as it has a much stronger flavor that stands up well to long cooking whereas celery will become rather insipid the longer it cooks.

A very tiny bit of nutmeg, added to the onions about 2/3 of the way through the cooking, will add just a hint of flavor but only a hint and you really won't be able to tell what it actually is, it just makes it better.

(I always add just a tiny bit of nutmeg to milk gravy too. You can't taste it but it add "something")

[fifi]

"O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" (Thank you, Lewis Carroll.) I found a little half cup jar of chicken glace de viande in the freezer.

The rosemary onion confit is on. Pictures to follow.

Interestingly, when I was slicing the white onions, the layers seemed to literally spring apart. I don't know that I have seen this phenomenon to this extent before. I wonder if that means that these onions are particularly dry or wet? I guess we shall see.

[Dana]

In my ever-on-going attempt to cut calories without sacrificing too much flavor, I tried onion confit without adding any fat. I had to keep stirring the onions in the crock pot as they got brown around the edges very quickly.- about once an hour. They did caramelize and are very tasty, but not as tasty as the full fat version. I think the operative word here is CONFIT - they should be cooked in fat. Don't worry, mine won't go to waste. They will still be good on toasted bread with cheese, scrambled eggs, etc. They just don't have quite the depth of flavor without the fat (no surprise there).