My Truly Bizarre Experience with Hot Ham

[phaelon56]

I just have to share this as it is so truly wacky. Ran over to Home Depot on my lunch hour and stopped into a small neighborhood pizzeria/sandwich shop on my return to the office. Settled on a half sandwich made with light rye. The menu description reads.... this is verbatim... "Italian sandwich made of ham, hot ham, and cheese with lettuce, tomato and onions". Seems pretty straightforward, right?

I order the sandwich and ask for mustard, no mayo onions and no oil.

I get to my desk and open said sandwich, ready to devour it. Noticing a bit of red residue on the butcher paper wrapper I assume that it's just from contact with the edge of the "hot ham". Good looking sandwich - nice and thick with fresh bread and real leaf lettuce. I take a bite.... first I notice this bizarre taste that is somehow familiar but totally out of context. Lifting the bread I discover a big runny layer of red liquid all over the ham. Puzzled and a bit irritated (they were not busy - mine was the only order in house at the time and the owner helped the employee make the sandwich)... I assume they put French dressing on by mistake.

Soooo.... I call the pizzeria and speak to the owner to express my dissatisfaction. I just wish I had a recording of our little chat for posterity. It went something like this: I am "M" (me) and they are "P" (pizzeria)

M - "I was just in there and bought a sandwich but there's a problem - I asked for only mustard and you put French dressing on it."

P - " That's impossible - we don't even have French dressing - what kind of sandwich is it?"

M - " It's an Italian sandwich"

P -"Oh... that's the hot ham - that's what the red sauce is"

M -"What? How could that be? Hot ham is hot ham - this has some kind of sauce."

P - "That's right - it's our signature sandwich. Hot ham is when you dip pieces of ham into hot sauce before you put them on the sandwich. Cappicola is way too expensive so we make our own hot ham with hot sauce!"

M - "I've never heard of that but I'm a bit upset about this - the sandwich is inedible and all the menu mentioned was hot ham - nothing about hot sauce."

P- "I don't understand - all of our customers know that's what hot ham is - they've been coming here for years and everybody knows."

M - "But I'm a new customer - I'd never been in there before today - how would I know unless someone told me what your idea of 'hot ham' is."

P -" But I already told you - it was right on the menu - it says 'hot ham' is in the sandwich."

M - "I understand but my point is this - how was I to know that it meant ham dipped in hot sauce?"

P - "I can't believe you don't understand it - it's just like 'hot wings'. When you order 'hot wings' you know that they'll be dipped in hot sauce - right? It's the same way with 'hot ham' - that's why we call it that on the menu!"

This circular conversation might have persisted for hours if I hadn't finally asked whether she was interested in or willing to offer some resolution (e.g. I stop by after work, return the sandwich minus the one bite and get a refund). Her reply was to the effect that " If you can just understand what 'hot ham' really is, then we can talk about a solution."

Just had to vent and sure enough I will swing by there after work for a refund.

I'm curious - is this the fluke that it truly appears to be? Is not 'hot ham' a real deli item akin to spiced ham or am I even crazier than I already knew I was.

[tommy]

"hot ham" is generally a spiced ham. you're no crazier than you already think you are. it's also referred to as "cappicola" or "hot ham cappicola" in some NJ non-italian delis, right or wrong. but i've never heard of anyone dipping ham into Franks to make "hot ham." that's pretty hilarious, and pretty disgusting.

fwiw, i don't think that thumann's hot ham is much more expensive than regular ham. in fact, i'm sure of it.

Edited January 7, 2004 by tommy (log)

[denise_jer]

When I read the description of the sandwich, I thought, "how interesting to put cold ham and hot ham in the same sandwich!" I guess I would have been duped as well. I think "Buffalo-style Ham" would have been a better description!

edited to add:

Or "cappicola-style ham"?

Edited January 7, 2004 by denise_jer (log)

[phaelon56]

But capicola is soooooo expensive (not).

[jhlurie]

So... if I had to guess... you aren't going back to this deli again?

[Chad]

I'm with you, phaelon. If I saw "hot ham" on the ingredient list I'd think spicy ham -- cappicola or something of the sort. Certainly not ham dipped in hot sauce. That's just nuts. I probably would have eaten it, though.

Come to think of it, why mention "hot ham" on the menu at all? If you've got ham and some more ham which has sauce on it, why not just list them as ham and hot sauce? That's like saying that a barbeque sandwich is made of pork and "hot pork," as though the layer of pork with sauce on it is somehow a different meat.

"Hot Ham, the other orange meat" .

Chad

[Pan]

Like Denise, I figured that they had both cold and hot (probably nuked) ham in the same sandwich.

For the new year, I wish you a trip to Italy, where you can get the highest quality deli meats with great ease. I have great memories of a truly superior bar in Siena where I used to go if I missed breakfast. They made me a sandwich with slices of vine-ripened tomato, provolone, and mortadella, all of extremely high quality on a terrific piece of bread. One of the greatest bargains in food I've ever experienced. But you had to be there to get it.

Are there some really good delis in Syracuse, New York (as opposed to Siracusa, Sicily)?

[dls]

M -"What?  How could that be? Hot ham is hot ham - this has some kind of sauce."

P - "That's right - it's our signature sandwich. Hot ham is when you dip pieces of ham into hot sauce before you put them on the sandwich. Cappicola is way too expensive so we make our own hot ham with hot sauce!"

Don't know where you live but I had something similar during a business visit to Birmingham AL a few years ago. One of my employees wanted to take me to true "locals" place. It was a little stand with a few picnic tables outside. Their signature item was a "Hot Ham Sandwich". Being a first timer, I decided to try it figuring it was either a sandwich with cappicola or some type of warm ham sandwich. I was wrong on both counts.

Apparentely, they slice up a quantity of boiled ham each morning and put the slices into a pan with either a commercial or homemade hot sauce. As each order comes up, they pull out a few slices, shake off excess sauce, and place the slices on a standard hamburger roll heavily laden with Miracle Whip. A little bit of iceburg lettuce and a big gob of sweet relish follows.

Really nasty!

[phaelon56]

I just related this tale to one of my very Italian co-workers (the guy who makes his own wine every year with his grandfather's old country recipe, drives across town for his cappicola etc). - he nearly fell down laughing. This really has to be one of my most bizarre food encounters of all time.

I'm thinking that "Buffalo Style Ham" is not even sufficient. Perhaps we might call it "Frank's Louisiana style Red Hot Ham"? You can trust that I won't returning to this place for anything other than a refund of my $4.00 (it's on the way home - otherwise I wouldn't aggravate myself by going in even for the refund).

[fresco]

Did this concoction taste really terrible or was it mostly the shock of expecting one thing and getting another? It doesn't sound any worse than the Buffalo style wings that are served up in many a cheesy bar.

[JPW]

Hell, this is so funny, I'd probably forget about the $4 and the aggravation and consider it a price well paid for a story good enough to tell for years.

I can't believe that there was actually somebody else out there that had run into the same thing.

The thing that made me laugh hardest was the reason why. A)The last time I checked butt capacola was not very expensive at all. B) Last time I checked, the customer generally pays the price for food inflation.

Priceless.

[Marlene]

I just related this tale to one of my very Italian co-workers (the guy who makes his own wine every year with his grandfather's old country recipe, drives across town for his cappicola etc). - he nearly fell down laughing. This really has to be one of my most bizarre food encounters of all time.

So did I

[tryska]

hey phaelon? what was the ethnicity of the restaurant?

[Al_Dente]

Send Tony Soprano over there to straighten them out.

[bilrus]

Send Tony Soprano over there to straighten them out.

But wouldn't he call it Gabbagool? You can bet that there is none of this foolishness at Satriale's.

[phaelon56]

Pan - I truly hope that I get that Italy trip this year - I'm working on it but with the dollar getting so beat up against the Euro it looks like South America is first on my list (Buenos Aires to be specific - the US dollar is yielding nearly three pesos at present).

I am truly amazed that this phenomenon was now reported by someone else as existing elsewhere. In response to a few other questions it should be noted...

This was a garden variety neighborhodd pizzeria and not what I'd call an old-school or traditional Italian place (not even by Syracuse standards) - the owners did not appear to have any noticeably ethnic background - just your regular Syracuse business folks (meaning they could be Irish, Polish, Italian or what-have-you but likely third or fourth generation like me).

It tasted pretty bizarre and not just because it was out of context. There was way too much hot sauce on there in the first place and furthermore - hot sauce does not seem to blend nicely with ham, cheese and lettuce.

Syracuse does still have at least one traditional Italian deli - Lombardi's at the corner of Butternut and Lodi. There's a new one that appears to have promise - haven't tried it yet. It's up at Teall and Court next to the Pfaltzgraff factory store.

[tommy]

You can bet that there is none of this foolishness at Satriale's.

that was very funny.

[tryska]

This was a garden variety neighborhodd pizzeria and not what I'd call an old-school or traditional Italian place (not even by Syracuse standards) - the owners did not appear to have any noticeably ethnic background - just your regular Syracuse business folks (meaning they could be Irish, Polish, Italian or what-have-you but likely third or fourth generation like me).

this makes it even more bizarre.

usually the local joints have really good food. even if it is hard to find green vegetable like substances on your plate.

[tommy]

This was a garden variety neighborhodd pizzeria and not what I'd call an old-school or traditional Italian place (not even by Syracuse standards) - the owners did not appear to have any noticeably ethnic background - just your regular Syracuse business folks (meaning they could be Irish, Polish, Italian or what-have-you but likely third or fourth generation like me).

this makes it even more bizarre.

usually the local joints have really good food. even if it is hard to find green vegetable like substances on your plate.

i've found that pizzeria type places tend to make pretty standard sandwiches, from pre-sliced meats. in my experience, it's just standard for them to have an "italian hero" on their menu. so to me, it's not strange at all that it would be horrible!

[tryska]

*lol* not the horrible part - the hot-sauce doused ham bit. that seems so damn..un-syracusan.

[phaelon56]

the hot-sauce doused ham bit. that seems so damn..un-syracusan.

You're right it is REALLY damn un-syracusan. "Italian" sandwishes and subs are a mainstay item on the menus of every deli, lunch counter, convenience store and pizzeria in Syracuse. I've likely eaten a few hundred of them in my life and rarely from the same place more than a few times. They are rarely stellar or highly memorable but have always been adequate fuel for the needs of the moment.

This was really good for a laugh... even if my lunch ended up being comprised of two carrots, a pear and a handful of M&Ms.

[Mark Sommelier]

It was JUST a sandwich. Is it such a big deal??????

[Pan]

If a bizarre experience with a sandwich isn't worth talking about here, is anything else we talk about worth talking about. I mean, it's all just food and drink, right?

[alacarte]

Did they give you a funny look when you asked for mustard with your hot sauce?

[docsconz]

It sounds as if they were just trying to be innovative. After all, buffalo wings started somewhere.