A Prison Food Discussion

[SethG]

Well - if I have to spend a night in a hospital and there's a guy down the hall with a stocking cap and a gun trying to steal pills - I'll just try to keep in mind that he isn't violent  .

Placing a gun in the person's hand changes the hypothetical entirely. But I think you knew that.

My point, which you seem intent on missing, is that all people in prison are not murderous thugs deserving of whatever gruel we can shell out for the minimum amount of money. And the nature of the crimes committed by the people in prison is "relevant" to the issue of how they should be punished, and whether the type of food they get should be part of that punishment-- at least it is for some of us. I personally don't think we need to demonize or humiliate the people in prison any more than we already do, whatever their crimes.

When you're not dismissing all prisoners as worthless, Robyn, you seem to be saying that prisoners and prisons have much bigger problems than food, and that these problems should be our focus. And I don't know that anybody disagrees with you about that. But we don't have to choose just one problem to deal with in our lives. EGullet happens to be a food site, where we can discuss how prisoners ought to be fed in our spare time. This doesn't stop any of us from doing whatever we can to reform whatever system we want to with the rest of our time.

The $2.55 budget you speak of-- I think this is a good topic for discussion. But we should discuss not only what we can feed people for that kind of money, but why that is the budget and whether such a budget is reasonable, just or cruel & unusual.

[Fat Guy]

... Certainly some of the allegedly non-violent convicts are violent anyway, but even if you discount for that we're still talking about something like a million people locked up who are non-violent. Since this is a discussion about prison food not prison statistics per se, I think the existence of a million non-violent incarcerated people in the US is relevant and no food-related argument changes whether it's 10% more or less.

Relevant to what?

I don't think any American politician is going to campaign on a platform of more money for food for prisoners than military families because the prisoners have been convicted of non-violent crimes.

So what are your ideas about how to improve food at $2.55/day? I happen to love pasta - and it's cheap. It is also a "happy" cuisine in my opinion. I don't at all feel degraded when I eat it. So perhaps more pasta is a good idea. Note that I am not being facetious (I can talk about the philosophy of a lot of things - but "food" is an "applied art" in my opinion - you have to "just do it"). Robyn

I'm not necessarily advocating that more money be spent on food for prisoners. I'd rather see less money spent on it. I'm sure the system is ridiculously inefficient and that all sorts of unnecessarily expensive canned and processed products are used. And of course there is a system-wide failure to engage in as much agriculture as could be engaged in. Even in states with short growing seasons, a tremendous amount of product can be harvested and preserved by a small percentage of prisoners in one prison, and that can be used to offset food costs.

When you're cooking for thousands of people, $2.55 per person can buy a lot of food as long as you stick to the basics. Chicken thighs at the bulk purchase wholesale level can be had for something like 19 cents a pound. That's around 13 pounds for $2.55. I can't imagine any human could eat that much chicken in a day. Even a pound would be a lot. Call it 19 cents. Starches are virtually cost-free -- for maybe 10 cents you can add a gigantic portion of potatoes, rice, beans, grits, or pasta to that pound of chicken. Eggs are also incredibly cheap, less than 5 cents a piece purchased in those quantities -- and for prison use they should be buying the broken ones for even less. I think we're up to 34 cents now.

If you give me four people to cook for and a budget of $70 for the week ($2.50 per person per day), plus access to basic kitchen staples (for the purposes of the experiment, it wouldn't work for me to have to buy salt, pepper, oil, etc. -- we could assume $5 worth of these ingredients as small percentages of a 6-month supply) I can feed that group well from the supermarket. I'd be able to give each person easily 8 ounces of decent quality animal meat protein each day (mostly chicken and pork, with some beef), eggs for breakfast, plenty of starches, soups and sandwiches for lunch, a variety of desserts, and reasonable portions of fresh fruits and vegetables. Give me 1000 people to feed, a whole kitchen crew, and access to wholesale pricing, I can do even better. No problem.

[Jinmyo]

Steve, I agree.

Risotto. Or barley. Half a pot of cooked barley in a soup becomes a full pot of barley in two hours.

It's not too hard to do well with grains, beans, cheap cuts bought in bulk at wholesale.

Pulled pork, braised beef.

In fact, beef cheek ravioli with no problem.

[Fat Guy]

Overheard in Cell Block D: "Hey, what is this shit? Last week they were using Carnaroli and now it's this Arborio garbage. Budget cuts suck."

[Jinmyo]

"Ya call dis porcini? Dis stuff is cut wid cheap dried sliced shitake. Dat's it for me. I can't take dis crap. I'm goin' straight when I ged oud."

[robyn]

I'm not necessarily advocating that more money be spent on food for prisoners. I'd rather see less money spent on it. I'm sure the system is ridiculously inefficient and that all sorts of unnecessarily expensive canned and processed products are used...

I think your food ideas are terrific. And I've seen some of the kind of thing you're talking about in what little I've seen in military cooking. Of course in military cooking - you frequently have military people cooking for other military people. There is - at best - a certain sense of esprit de corps (although many military food places aren't anywhere near the best).

I looked a lot on line last night. Found about 2 pieces about prison chefs doing interesting/exciting/commendable things. And about 1000+ pieces about a company I shall not name that seems to get a lot of contracts for prison food (including the Florida contract). If the pieces are to be believed - the outfit sounds totally disreputable and disgusting. It shouldn't be allowed to feed alley cats - much less people.

Also - although I did find a couple of ads for outside food people to work inside prisons - I didn't find much about training people inside to do food (it seems that most inside people are supervised by outside people - and that's only when the food preparation hasn't been contracted out).

Seems to me that perhaps the model for prison food service needs work. More "in-house" training by people who know what they're doing. Some attempt to develop the attitude that prevails in the better parts of military cooking. I guess for a lot of administrators - the easiest course is just to sign an outside contract (just like for most Americans - it's easier to eat at a fast food or chain place than to take the time to cook a decent meal and put it on the table). Take care and Happy Holidays, Robyn

[afoodnut]

In today's Boulder Daily Camera, an article headlined Jails aim to soothe via food, about jails in El Paso County (Colorado Springs).

A few relevant comments:

Boulder County Jail says screening carbs, sugar an interesting idea

By Camera staff and wire

January 3, 2004

COLORADO SPRINGS — Crowded jails in El Paso County are trying to reduce inmate tension, violence and suicides through food.

The jails are serving larger portions, cutting out snacks laden with sugar and carbohydrates that could generate extra energy, and preventing inmates with medical problems from getting snacks that could aggravate the conditions...

"We're seeing the assaults and fights actually dropping off," said sheriff's Lt. Lewis Lentz, who oversees the jails' food contract...

[Pan]

Thanks for posting that. It was interesting.

[afoodnut]

Thanks for posting that. It was interesting.

You're welcome. Oddly enough, in the same edition of the Boulder Daily Camera, an op-ed article Starve a prisoner, feed the budget appears, detailing a different approach.

...There is, however, another money-saving idea that has caught on with less enlightened folks, including prison authorities such as those in Texas and Virginia, and that idea is already being implemented in those (and other) states. It is such a good idea that it is surprising that it took a budget crisis to cause authorities to think of it. Prisons have begun cutting back on the number of calories and the amount of food served to prisoners. Some states have begun serving two meals instead of three on holidays and weekends.

Texas has reduced the number of calories fed prisoners from 2,800 to 2,500. That reduction came about because of a bill passed by the Texas Legislature that told the Texas Department of Criminal Justice to reduce its budget by $230 million in 2003. Six million dollars were ordered to come from the food budget and prison officials complied. In doing so, they observed that the nutritional value of the meals being served still meets national standards. They did not comment on the fact that the new standards seem to ignore guidelines of the Department of Agriculture, which recommends a minimum of 2,800 calories a day for active men and 2,200 calories for sedentary men. The 2,500 figure represents a healthy compromise, since some Texas prisoners do nothing more than sit in their cells, whereas others work on farms or are otherwise engaged in labor-intensive projects. My guess is that the less active inmates happily share their calories with the more active inmates. That's the sort of camaraderie that develops in prison populations.

The cut in food was neither as heartless nor as arbitrary as might appear at...

Edited January 3, 2004 by afoodnut (log)

[Pan]

Oddly enough, in the same edition of the Boulder Daily Camera, an op-ed article Starve a prisoner, feed the budget appears, detailing a different approach.

My guess is that the less active inmates happily share their calories with the more active inmates. That's the sort of camaraderie that develops in prison populations.

You guess that people who are not simply schoolyard bullies but incarcerated happily share their calories? Yeah, right. Sure you do.