Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1

[hollywood]

but what if RB actually believes what he is pitching.

that does not make him a hypocrite.

i think that his association with the CC changes that.

I see this as similar to the time when Bob Vila started doing Sears Ads. Then it seems like he got booted from This Old House. Wonder if Rick is gonna get tossed from PBS?

[jilly rizzo]

Regardless,

what's done is done.

if you don't agree, or like it,

take a pass on all things Burger king, and Rick Bayless.

Get over it.

I was not happy in the 80's when some beer company

used the Sinatra version of 'The Way You Look Tonight'

for their ads. Did I boycott Francis Albert?

NO.

I got over it.

I always knew Frank would never drink anything less than Jack Daniels.

I took it in stride.

Because I have High Hopes.

pie in the sky,

Jilly

Edited October 10, 2003 by jilly rizzo (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Get over it.

Welcome to debate, eGullet-style.

Oh, and welcome to eGullet as well.

Soba

[jilly rizzo]

Thanks Soba,

Pass the Uni.

Jills-y

[ronnie_suburban]

who the fuck cares?

rick bayless, god bless him

is in for a phat pay-day. who can blame him?

jesus christ, if he is getting six figures,

the more fun he can have.

stop pissing in the man's corn-flakes.

everyone has a price. if you don't like it,

ignore it, don't buy burger king. take a deep breath

let it go. this too shall pass. it is just like people you would never

expect showing up on the Food Network.

everyone has to make their nut. shut the fuck up about it already.

sophie's choice.

move on, this topic is now post-mortem.

=R=

[jilly rizzo]

NEWS FLASH:

Drudgereport.com:

RICK BAYLESS DEBACLE

Santa Fe NM, 8:33 EST

Rick Bayless guru of all cusine Mexican admits to Oxycontin addiction, mauled by white tiger.

In a stunning devolopment, Rick Bayless, after signing a six-figure deal with Burger King,

admits only to doing so after a long struggle with the pharmecutical drug Oxyconitn. In a sad turn of events,

egullet.com regular, 'Fat Guy' disillusioned by Bayless' endorsement of sub-standard fare, sent Bayless a parcel via Federal

Express. The parcel contained a rare, white Bengal Tiger, named O-Toro. Upon opening the package, Bayless was suprised,

and attacked by the feline, who grabbed the Food Personality by the soul patch, and carried him off to a local Taco Bell. Witnesses tried to thwart the attack by pelting the rare tiger with 'School of Rock' Kiddie meals, to no avail. Bayless was mauled, and taken to Cedar's Sanai, with injuries to the neck, and gullet. Why he was transported to the west coast, will be a subject of debate for decades to come.

We will interrupt egullet, with updates as matters dictate.

[mrbigjas]

Now that's some funny shit right there.

[SethG]

Welcome Jilly! Anyone who makes reference in less than half an hour to Dr. Dre, the Who and Frank has surely figured something out.

But don't you think there's an irony to the fact that you are adding to the length of this thread by repeatedly telling folks that the thread is pointless?

Edited, hopefully, before anyone quotes me.

Edited October 11, 2003 by SethG (log)

[jilly rizzo]

irony no

serendipity, yes!

yes i have lived in various and dubious incarnations, seth.

alas, that is the glory of anonimity.

i love to beat a dead horse.

regards,

jilly

no ficking ziti, inc.

[SethG]

no ficking ziti, inc.

You're killing me! That's my favorite Sopranos line, and it's from the pilot, isn't it? It's been a long four seasons.

I only wish I actually agreed with your point about Rick Bayless.

[jilly rizzo]

ok seth,

how can we resolve this?

i know his schilling of BK

gives him as much credibilty as Elvis' black-belt,

but come on, look at all them zeros.

i felt the same way when i heard iggy pop's 'lust for life'

on a Norweigan Cruise line commercial.

i was thinking to myself,"why not Lou Reed's 'Waiting for the Man"?

so. either we can give 'ol rick a pass,

or we can all take up pitchforks, and torches

and storm casa de rick, like he mistook a 'lil girl,

and threw her in a river because he thought she was a flower.

i lean towards giving him a pass. so he fellated a corporate entitiy.

perter north used to do gay porn, and look at him now.

see what i'm saying?

laughing all the way to the bank, i think they say.

so for now, let BK fund his jags to Sao Paolo

in search of the perfect skirt steak.

you don't have to. i don't have to.

last time i went into a BK, was b/c i had a full bladder.

i'm not jetting down there to chow on a rick sandwich.

and i don't think you will either.

what's that line....

if you lie in bed with the devil, eventually you have to do the nasty.

leave rick in peace...

locked in a 69 with beezulbozo, let him deep throat a double whopper.

but by all means though, wish him well.

he has a corporate stinky pinky.

egullet dawarinism at work.

regards,

jilly

-it's alive, inc.

Edited October 11, 2003 by jilly rizzo (log)

[SethG]

Er, I don't know who Peter North is.

Never mind, I give up. You're right.

Love,

Seth

Sorry I ever said anything, inc.

[bourdain]

I AM a motherfucking hustler--but I'm selling a product I have a reasonable degree of confidence in--myself--and the stuff I like to do, the things I'm genuinely passionate about and curious about. FN has been kind enough--or foolish enough--whatever you might think--to enable that. I'm sitting in Kuala Lumpur at the moment--and it's NOT an unpleasant task, I can assure you . I LIKE it here. I very likely will say so--in print or on TV at some point. That's a little different than hawking gristle sandwiches--after a career condemning them.You will notice that I have endorsed absolutely NO products--though the opportunity has presented itself a number of times. It's NOT a matter of ethics, really. I'd sell out if I could. I just don't want to have to look at my stupid face in the bathroom mirror and see a salesman for fucking Coors or Immodium. I've done enought things I'm ashamed about in my life--and I know what that feels like.As far as "jumping at the chance" to join up with Food Net? Yeah..Sure..okay. Fair statement. When you see me doing a stand-up cooking show with a stupid smile stitched across my yap--barking "Don't Eat Fish On Monday Kids!" every ten minutes--or oohing and ahhing over what is obviously sludge on some Cincinnati On Four Dollars A Day, feel free to piss on me from a great height.

[Jinmyo]

Right then.

[hwilson41]

I see this as similar to the time when Bob Vila started doing Sears Ads.

Hollywood; I would argue that Bob Vila whored out a lot more than Bayless has done. That asshole (Vila) is trying to persuade folks to do something that is at best fraught with danger and probably downright stupid, namely, put your house up to back up your overgrown credit card bills. If you follow his advice, you may be a renter again before all is said and done. The only folks that is good for are the ones holding the second mortgage on the house.

Bayless may be hawking second rate cheeseburgers (or whatever), but they are about as good as any I've ever found in fast foodom. And you don't lose your house if things don't work out .

THW

[Fat Guy]

we can all take up pitchforks, and torches

and storm casa de rick

Or we can point to his hypocrisy, hold him accountable for it, and take the position that a serious chef shouldn't endorse crap. It's so easy to haul out the tired old reductionist witch-hunt metaphor anytime anybody accuses somebody else of doing something wrong. But sometimes people do the wrong thing, and pointing it out isn't a witch hunt anymore than any other challenge to a wrong idea or action. Taking a position on an issue of principle and aesthetics is hardly tantamount to searching out and harassing dissenters. Rick Bayless made this choice, he has been well paid, he hardly deserves a pass. Particularly in the case of the Chefs Collaborative people, he has blind-sided them and forced action on their parts -- yet they are taking the time to make a reasoned judgment; hardly a witch hunt. And he certainly doesn't deserve that pass now that he has compounded his poor judgment with disingenuous propaganda that removes any remaining doubt as to his hypocrite-sellout status.

[elyse]

No Burger Club Steven? 1pm at Molly's....

[Squeat Mungry]

we can all take up pitchforks, and torches

and storm casa de rick

Or we can point to his hypocrisy, hold him accountable for it, and take the position that a serious chef shouldn't endorse crap. It's so easy to haul out the tired old reductionist witch-hunt metaphor anytime anybody accuses somebody else of doing something wrong. But sometimes people do the wrong thing, and pointing it out isn't a witch hunt anymore than any other challenge to a wrong idea or action. Taking a position on an issue of principle and aesthetics is hardly tantamount to searching out and harassing dissenters. Rick Bayless made this choice, he has been well paid, he hardly deserves a pass. Particularly in the case of the Chefs Collaborative people, he has blind-sided them and forced action on their parts -- yet they are taking the time to make a reasoned judgment; hardly a witch hunt. And he certainly doesn't deserve that pass now that he has compounded his poor judgment with disingenuous propaganda that removes any remaining doubt as to his hypocrite-sellout status.

Amen, Fat Guy!

Hypocrisy is the issue, and hypocrisy is what it is.

When I brought this subject up on a local food forum, I was quickly poo-pooed for "crucifying" Bayless. (And I live in Northern California, arguably the birthplace of the kinds of values represented by the Chef's Collaborative!)

But I went to American Heritage, and this is what I found:

"1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

2. An act or instance of such falseness."

So, to what current developments does this apply?

Tony Bourdain doing Food TV? No way. (Props, dude! and double props for joining in this forum!)

Um, an administration that speaks of nothing but freedom while systematically stripping away civil rights and lying about reasons to invade foreign countries? I think so.

Let's see...an overseer of an institution devoted to sustainable local agriculture and healthily produced food shilling for a corporation whose only consideration of food is as a medium for putting money in its coffers? Yes, I think so too.

Shame on Bayless. I only hope he hasn't completely destroyed Chef's Collaborative's effectiveness.

Cheers,

Squeat

[Jinmyo]

Regarding Chef's Collective. I've thought many times how interesting it is that acting in bad faith not only affects oneself but often innocent others.

Chef Rick not only has to do a damage control dance (I'm referring to his letter posted earlier by tanabutler. around page 9), but the CC will have to get jiggy too.

[hollywood]

That asshole (Vila) is trying to persuade folks to do something that is at best fraught with danger and probably downright stupid, namely, put your house up to back up your overgrown credit card bills.

You're right. I wasn't making that comparison. Hope I don't have to refi to get a BK Broiler.

[ronnie_suburban]

Chef Rick not only has to do a damage control dance (I'm referring to his letter posted earlier by tanabutler. around page 9), but the CC will have to get jiggy too.

Yes, the matter seems to be relatively "open and shut" for CC. Their dogmatic mission statement doesn't allow for much wiggle room.

But I personally couldn't care less if RB comes off as (or is) a hypocrite. I cannot label someone who I don't know personally--especially given the depth of his work--over one relatively harmless (albeit very public) decision. For many, it seems that this one decision is enough to define him as a hypocrite in perpetuity. I think that's overly-simplistic, naive and unfair.

Is Bayless guilty of abadonning his cause? Perhaps momentarily, but probably not for the long haul. Did he make a seemingly inconsistent decision? Sure...but I have no problem with that either. In the end, pointing to him as a hypocrite is merely a dramatic way to indicate that his efforts are less "pure" than they once were. Perhaps he is a sell-out, but he's a sell out who will still do more to further his cause than many others; including those who are eager to label him over this one choice. And viewed in that context, this instance of "selling out" is of almost no consequence. Again, this decision doesn't negate Bayless' ability to do good work, only the perception (by some) of what he is.

I agree that the CC has been potentially harmed by Bayless' action but, as I asked upthread, if he had resigned from the CC before making the BK deal, would it still have been an act of hypocrisy? If he decides he want to take a less fanatical, more remunerative approach, is there some appropriate method by which he can declare his change of heart? Or is this man forever obligated to a specific path because he once chose it for himself or because of our perceptions of him? If he genuinely thinks the product is "a step in the right direction" that's enough for me...even if he received a huge payout for making the endorsement.

To me, this is a tempest in a teapot...for all but the CC. In the big picture, the 'indiscretion' here is a small one. But for the CC, I think they're basically in a corner with only one way out. IMO, if they look the other way on this, they'll be the hypocrites. Professionally speaking, Bayless owed the CC a warning before this happened, but we don't know with certainty that he didn't provide them with one. As an individual, even one with publicly stated personal goals, Bayless owes no one any apologies--nor should he feel any guilt--for making this deal.

=R=

[jilly rizzo]

I AM a motherfucking hustler--but I'm selling a product I have a reasonable degree of confidence in--myself--and the stuff I like to do, the things I'm genuinely passionate about and curious about. FN has been kind enough--or foolish enough--whatever you might think--to enable that.

...

feel free to piss on me from  a great height.

Sorry Tony,

I was talking about Gordon Elliot.

Tizzle Bourdizzle in the egizzle hizzle, giving a shout out from Koizzle Lampizzle, in a drop top 6-4.

Compton and Long Beach, Inc.

[jilly rizzo]

And Jilly, great posts! 

word to nick.

rut tut tut tut, inc.

[Squeat Mungry]

Yes, the matter seems to be relatively "open and shut" for CC.  Their dogmatic mission statement doesn't allow for much wiggle room.

But I personally couldn't care less if RB comes off as (or is) a hypocrite.  I cannot label someone who I don't know personally--especially given the depth of his work--over one relatively harmless (albeit very public) decision.  For many, it seems that this one decision is enough to define him as a hypocrite in perpetuity.  I think that's overly-simplistic, naive and unfair.

Is Bayless guilty of abadonning his cause?  Perhaps momentarily, but probably not for the long haul.  Did he make a seemingly inconsistent decision?  Sure...but I have no problem with that either.  In the end, pointing to him as a hypocrite is merely a dramatic way to indicate that his efforts are less "pure" than they once were.  Perhaps he is a sell-out, but he's a sell out who will still do more to further his cause than many others; including those who are eager to label him over this one choice.  And viewed in that context, this instance of "selling out" is of almost no consequence.  Again, this decision doesn't negate Bayless' ability to do good work, only the perception (by some) of what he is.

Actually, this is more or less the point I was trying to make above. It may not be "important" that this was a hypocritical act (see definition #2 above). But it was.

Is it important to you? Apparently not. To Bayless? Time will tell. To me? Yes, to the idealistic idiot who still lives within me. To CC? Damn straight, IMO.

Cheers,

Squeat

Edited for trying to spell on only one cup of coffee.

Edited October 11, 2003 by Squeat Mungry (log)

[Singapore]

I'm in with Jilly on this. Never heard of CC, never heard of Bayless, doubt much of America outside of the Northeast has either, or really gives a damn if another high end, (formerly) high principled, left wing, foie gras hustler bites the proverbial dust and sells out to corporate America.

Rocco had a price. NBC found it.

Bayless had a price. BK found it.

Got the pattern yet?