Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1

[Jinmyo]

Steve, you've seen the Ricky ad more recently than I. Did he not basically say, "Eh. Just get one of these instead?"

[Fat Guy]

Basically, but at some point I'll play it back and transcribe it verbatim. Not that it really matters. I think we've established that for the purposes of this exercise he's just an actor reading lines. He wasn't involved in product development and he probably had nothing to do with scripting the ad.

[fifi]

FG quote:

That Bayless has had to haul out the spinmeister's arsenal of dirty linguistic tricks in a letter that is so obviously a piece of propaganda that was most likely scripted by publicists and gone over with a fine-tooth comb by Burger King does not speak well for his veracity.

Oh, you smelled that, too. I got suspicious and went back and read that letter again. (That was before I saw your post.) Having spent too much time with lawyers crafting similar drivel, I started recognizing the spin. (Sorry, I know you are a lawyer. I am just currently suffering from overexposure.) I AM sure that the letter isn't a spontaneous declaration of purpose.

[tommy]

what i'm saying is that i don't think 1220 mg of sodium is all that much, compared to other sandwiches.  threads like this tend to become about more than one thing, and i think one of the discussions going on is sodium-related.   personally, i'm salty enough.

My only point about beating the dead sodium horse to death is that RB is trying to position the sandwich as healthy.

fwiw, my interest in the sodium issue started when hannnah declared that 1200 mg of sodium is "a lot for one sandwich". of course, others have been saying it's salt-laden and whatnot, so i'm sure some discussion and comparison is reasonable.

and my comparison to a subway sandwich was in response to hannnah's comparison to a non-comparable subway sandwich. and as i said, i don't think the CC cares much for fast food anyway, so that comparison will no doubt not make them feel any better, but, again, might be of interest to others, as i didn't want people to blindly think that this sandwich is way saltier than other foods they might eat.

Edited October 7, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Fat Guy]

I think it's safe to say that if you dine at the finest restaurants in the world you will, in the course of your meal, eat a whole heck of a lot more than 1220mg of sodium. You will probably eat more like 5000-10000mg. So I think the sodium issue is a bit of a red herring, unless it comes to light that Bayless at some point took a public anti-sodium position.

[tommy]

I think it's safe to say that if you dine at the finest restaurants in the world you will, in the course of your meal, eat a whole heck of a lot more than 1220mg of sodium. You will probably eat more like 5000-10000mg. So I think the sodium issue is a bit of a red herring, unless it comes to light that Bayless at some point took a public anti-sodium position.

well i see you're agreeing with me on something.

it would seem to me that most people (not those CC types) would agree that this sandwich is rather "healthy", or more correctly, "not as unhealthy as most if not all fast food at BK type places", assuming one accepts 1200 mg of sodium as nothing earth shattering. the rest of the numbers for the sandwich are practically non-existent.

Edited October 7, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Sweet Willie]

time to move on perhaps

[Fat Guy]

I agree, tommy, but bear in mind that the sandwich is a vehicle for the sale of rather large sodas and fries (and the most decent-tasting thing at Burger King: onion rings), which fail many people's tests of healthfulness (especially taken together). Not mine, mind you, but the standard CC-type position is that this stuff is terrible for you, the world, the environment, etc. And if sales of a hundred million of these sandwiches also result in sales of fifty million Cokes and fifty million orders of fries, that's hardly a step in the right direction by the standards of those who speak of steps in the right direction.

By the way if you go the Burger King site right now there's a $1-off coupon for the sandwich. Enjoy!

[tommy]

but fat guy, diet soda, which i'm sure they sell a lot of, is like, not bad for you at all. so as long as you get small fries, you've got yourself a reasonable meal by most standards. and i think it's a step in the "right direction" as well.

Edited October 7, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Fat Guy]

A reasonable meal that tastes like shit and is unlikely to be purchased by anyone in that configuration, yes. A step in the right direction for sugared soda sales, yes. But what percentage of Burger King customers do you think will get that sandwich with a small fries and diet soda? Surely the combination with a King fries (600 calories, 270 from fat) and Coke (430 calories) is more likely. Yes, these are choices. Yes, the wandering gourmand now has this wonderful new option at Burger King (I'm sure Bayless will be dropping in often to sample the sandwich, since it will now save his so much time on all that exhausting produce shopping). But the end result of all this will be to sell fries and sugared sodas, which is after all where Burger King makes its money. The sandwich selection is just about supporting the add-ons and giving the appearance of diversity so as to increase frequency of visitation and attractiveness to larger groups. In the end, if the campaign is successful, it will sell more of everything for Burger King.

[tommy]

i just mean that some people will appreciate it.

[Fat Guy]

Thanks, Burger King!

[tanabutler]

A reasonable meal that tastes like shit and is unlikely to be purchased by anyone in that configuration, yes. A step in the right direction for sugared soda sales, yes. But what percentage of Burger King customers do you think will get that sandwich with a small fries and diet soda? Surely the combination with a King fries (600 calories, 270 from fat) and Coke (430 calories) is more likely. Yes, these are choices. Yes, the wandering gourmand now has this wonderful new option at Burger King (I'm sure Bayless will be dropping in often to sample the sandwich, since it will now save his so much time on all that exhausting produce shopping). But the end result of all this will be to sell fries and sugared sodas, which is after all where Burger King makes its money. The sandwich selection is just about supporting the add-ons and giving the appearance of diversity so as to increase frequency of visitation and attractiveness to larger groups. In the end, if the campaign is successful, it will sell more of everything for Burger King.

So. The opera isn't over until the Fat Guy stings?

[Socrates]

yeah, not to mention kids just love a baguette, some figs, and a bit of salami for lunch. 

They would if they'd never been subjected to fast food and if they were used to good figs, salami and real crusty bread. We were not allowed fast food when we were growing up and I still don't like it, but I will drive through to get some decent ice tea when I haven't grabbed any from home. And not every place has good ice tea, btw. Nestee doen't count...

but if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass hoppin'.

:laugh:

Point taken! Now I gotta go eat some figs and salami and bread...

[beans]

but if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass hoppin'. 

Watch Raising Arizona lately tommy?! (I rewatched sometime this weekend and it was the first time I've ever heard that line!!!!)

edit: ooops.

Edited October 7, 2003 by beans (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

The net effect of reading this thread about the content of Whoppers and SFCBs (and eating one of the lousy SFCBs) has been to put me off fast foods even further than before. And not just off BK. I did check out Wendy's the next day and they do indeed appear to be cooking them at the time they are ordered, but that didn't convert me. I have been taking my lunch on days I can eat at the office, and otherwise exploring the neighborhood for little non-chain places with lunch for seven bucks or under. Today I had a Kobe Beef Rice Bowl for 4.95 at a place I had never been in before. (Yes that's right folks, Kobe Beef as in Kobe Beef.) The flavor was amazing. It didn't take any longer than driving through the BK drive thru lane, but I did sit down at their sidewalk cafe and enjoy this mid-70s day.) Now, to really avoid the fast food places on a regular basis, I do have to plan a little. But even if I forget and have to run in a grocery store, I can pick up some cheese and fruit in a flash.

[hannnah]

fwiw, my interest in the sodium issue started when hannnah declared that 1200 mg of sodium is "a lot for one sandwich".  of course, others have been saying it's salt-laden and whatnot, so i'm sure some discussion and comparison is reasonable.

and my comparison to a subway sandwich was in response to hannnah's comparison to a non-comparable subway sandwich.  and as i said, i don't think the CC cares much for fast food anyway, so that comparison will no doubt not make them feel any better, but, again, might be of interest to others, as i didn't want people to blindly think that this sandwich is way saltier than other foods they might eat.

To clarify, I found sodium info not on the BK sandwich, but something that looked comparable to the picture you posted, which had salami and ham - that's going to raise the sodium count significantly no matter where the sandwich comes from.

Half a teaspoon of salt *does* sound like a lot for one sandwich. However, once I started looking around, I found out that, by comparison, it wasn't that much at all. I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong.

[=Mark]

My only point about beating the dead sodium horse to death is that RB is trying to position the sandwich as healthy.  Anything that contains half of your daily recommended allowance of salt in one sitting (see chart) can't be all that healthy for you.  It's a lie to say otherwise.

Why? Recommended daily allowances are meant to convey the minimum amount of a substance that should be injested daily to prevent health problems from a deficit of that substance. These allowances have no bearing on the upper limits of what is concidered healthy. Much of the medical community is becoming more aware that there is only a small percentage of the general population that is sensitive to sodium, and of these, it is only the sodium bound as salt that is a factor.

[Fat Guy]

=Mark, as a longtime valued member, I nominate you to start the definitive sodium thread and post a link to it here.

[jhlurie]

Thanks to our friends at Wegman's, some numbers for comparison: Salami

Hormel, as I pointed out earlier, is by far the worst. 900mg for 2 ounces. This is the crap that's going to be in most mom and pop out of the way supermarkets, you know... right next to the Kraft brand cheese and the Wonder bread (okay, to be fair, two other types of Hormel are listed at 650mg per 2 ounce portion each). Remember that not everywhere has a Wegman's.

In other words, you can't win. Just live with it.

[tanabutler]

I thought about this business for a long time last night and this morning. The legalese y'all detected in RB's letter is more obvious to some than to others, but having had it pointed out, I am all the more disappointed.

[SobaAddict70]

Legalese is shorthand for "precise language".

If anything, the letter fairly reeked of it. There's nothing in that letter, as written, that can be disproven even though you know and I know and almost everyone else knows that some things have been left unsaid.

Soba

[hollywood]

For those arriving late to this thread, allow me to summarize: A Hero Ain't Nothin' But A San'wich.

[fresco]

Legalese is shorthand for "precise language".

If anything, the letter fairly reeked of it.  There's nothing in that letter, as written, that can be disproven even though you know and I know and almost everyone else knows that some things have been left unsaid.

Soba

Legalese isn't short for anything, in my experience.

[tanabutler]