Really bad bartenders

[beans]

whatever tommy

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[tommy]

let others be the judge. i don't know, nor do i pretend to know, everyone.

[beans]

ditto (mods, please feel free to delete)

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[tommy]

Edited October 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[beans]

ditto (mods please feel free to delete)

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[tommy]

i'm with beans.

Edited October 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[beans]

ditto (mods please feel free to delete)

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[tommy]

still with beans.

Edited October 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[beans]

bandwidth violations! Please delete!

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[tommy]

two beans in a pod.

Edited October 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Al_Dente]

There is a place here in Old Town Alexandria VA that gave part ownership to its bartenders after they had been there for 3 or 4 years. When I first moved here, I dropped in because I had heard it was one of the few "locals" bars to hang out in-- Old Town is often innundated with tourists. I think the ownership angle really made those guys aim to please. After a couple of visits, they knew what beer you liked, what cocktail you might opt for, knew you liked clams and would tell you (correctly) when they were the freshest. Drinks were often on the house for regulars. They shook your hand and wanted to know the names of any friends you brought. It was a great little homey neighborhood joint.

For the past year or so it seems the old guys moved on. It hasn't been the same since. It still has a little of its old charm, but it's rapidly becoming just any old place.

The search continues...

[tryska]

Oh, I've also seen bartenders not empty their ice tray after a glass breaks .... after I ordered a drink I bit my lip and talked to the manager, got free drinks all night 

oh my god! this happened to a friend of mine down here after a night of clubbing..turned out somehow he'd swallowed some glass - it was touch and go til it passed out of his system.

[Catness]

Bartending has changed a lot in the past few years. It seems to be much less about craft and pride in one's work. At least, that seems to be the case here in Seattle.

My partner, the Sicilian, tells this story about when he was a "two year" bartender, you know, at the point where he thought he knew everything. He was working in an NYC tavern and a guy ordered a Scarlett O'Hara. Rather than ask his customer what was in the drink, he, as he puts it, "made something that was red." His customer looked at the drink, then laid a $20 on the bar saying "Thanks, kid." The Sicilian says his heart sank; he knew he'd just been given a big tip to take a lesson. And so he did.

At a martini bar, should one have to coach the bartender on how to make a martini? One night we stopped at a well-known martini bar. I'm not a big fan of the martini bar trend, but we decided to give it a chance anyway. A couple of weeks earlier, I'd tried Grey Goose vodka for the first time in a vodka tonic. At that time I'd commented that the flavor of the vodka was so clean, it hardly had any taste, so it'd probably be better in a martini than with tonic. So, the Sicilian brought me a Grey Goose martini this night, I took one sip and said "You know how I said the Grey Goose didn't have a taste? Well, they woke one up and it's not good." Worst. Vodka. Martini. Ever. I've since had the same vodka in other bars with beautiful flavors and chemistry. So for that I blame the bartender.

[DrinkBoy]

Hey Bean you've got a point but THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT !!!

Rapping... this isn't intended as a slam against you, you just "tickled my peeve"...

I often hear bartenders use the old adage of "The customer is always right" to excuse any amount of ignorance they might have about the "right" way to make a cocktail. The fact is, that the customer is usually an ignorant dolt, who doesn't know the difference between Brandy and Whiskey.

True, if they say: "I prefer my old fashioneds to be topped off with soda", then yes, they are right about that.

However if they say: "The proper way to make an old fashioned is to top them off with soda", then they would be flatly wrong.

The way that I see it, there are four different "categories" of bartenders (borrowed and expanded upon from the book "Culinary Artistry"):

1. Chore

You'd rather be doing anything but bartend. But hey, it helps pay the bills. You've learned to memorize enough recipes to keep your customers happy, and nobody complains, much. And if you can toss bottles around and look cool, you might even be able to score a date for tomorrow night. When a customer asks for a drink that you don't know, you ignore them until they wise up.

After having one of your drinks a customer might think to themselves: "Well, at least it was cheap"

2. Trade

You "think" you want to be a bartender. Money appears to be pretty good, and the demands really aren't that tough. You talk with some of your fellow bartenders to get pointers on how you can improve. You often learn new drinks from your customers.

After having one of your drinks a customer might think to themselves: "One more and I'll get a good buzz"

3. Craft

You take your bartending seriously. You even spend off-hours often doing some research into cocktails and spirits so that you understand them better. Other bartenders, even from other bars, rely on you to help them with recipes, product info, or advice. You like to introduce your customers to a new drink.

After having one of your drinks a customer might think to themselves: "What a great drink"

4. Art

You identify yourself with being a bartender. You know that when you make a Manhattan you need to use different amounts of sweet vermouth based on the brand and type of whiskey the customer asked for. You have three different "bitters" that you make yourself, and know precisely which cocktails to use them in.

After having one of your drinks a customer might think to themselves: "Isn't life wonderful" (and not because they are inebreated)

Of the above, it might be appropriate to say that for a "Chore" or "Trade" bartender that "The customer is always right". However in "Craft", the customer is to be listened to, but with the knolwedge that the bartender is really the one that knows the drink, and they also know what information to get from the customer in order to make the drink the right way. And lastly in "Art", the customer puts themselves totally in the bartenders hands. The customer might normally order their old fashioned topped off with soda, but they know that whatever the bartender serves them will be the best old fashioned they have ever had.

Using phrases such as "The Customer Is Always Right", is demeaning to you as an individual... sure, the concept behind it is to just make the customer happy, because a happy customer will hopefully tip well. But the equation is far more complex then that. The higest paid chef's in the world are the ones that know the customer usually has no clue what good cuisine is, and it is their job to enlighten them.

</peeve>

-Robert Hess

www.DrinkBoy.com

[Busboy]

[The fact is, that the customer is usually an ignorant dolt, who doesn't know the difference between Brandy and Whiskey.

I hope you're not on the other side of whatever bat I end up in tonight.

I thought that condescending attitude was reserved for sommeliers (kidding, Mark) and Maitre d's still trapped in the 60s.

[JAZ]

Janet:  Did you tell the bartender you didn't appreciate he/she using their bare hand to help the straining process of that Martini, gratis or not?  Did you tell him/her to shake gently or swirl so as to stir the cocktail instead of the vigorous shaking?  Or quickly ascertaining the next possible scenario, given this barkeep lacked the proper equipment, state '____________ Gin on the rocks, with 3 olives, would be as delightful instead'?  Did you mention it to the manager that perhaps they need to outfit their staff with appropriate barwares so as to avoid that observed, vile, bad habit?  Or did you remain silent, quietly with smoldering distain and post a ranting gripe on a large, public forum?

I have to tell the bartender not to strain my drink with her hand? That's not something that any halfway competent bartender should know without being told?

Silly me -- I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to ascertain what equipment a given bar has and then tailor my order; I didn't realize it was my responsibility to ask the bartender to keep her hands out of my drink. Next time I'll know.

And I'm hardly smoldering with disdain here. I thought it was funny, in a sick sort of way, and figured it might be amusing to share related stories. I didn't realize that the profession of bartending was sacrosanct. Now I know.

[NVNVGirl]

NVNVGirl!

Same sort of idea posted the same time!   

Are there such things as jinxes?

I think the experience was jinx enough GMTA, right?

[NVNVGirl]

You mean warm, straight Gin?  Or that they used Gin?  And where else are they to pour mistakes?  Back into the bottle?

OMG, that's too funny beans!

[NVNVGirl]

Janet:  Did you tell the bartender you didn't appreciate he/she using their bare hand to help the straining process of that Martini, gratis or not?  Did you tell him/her to shake gently or swirl so as to stir the cocktail instead of the vigorous shaking?  Or quickly ascertaining the next possible scenario, given this barkeep lacked the proper equipment, state '____________ Gin on the rocks, with 3 olives, would be as delightful instead'?  Did you mention it to the manager that perhaps they need to outfit their staff with appropriate barwares so as to avoid that observed, vile, bad habit?  Or did you remain silent, quietly with smoldering distain and post a ranting gripe on a large, public forum?

I have to tell the bartender not to strain my drink with her hand? That's not something that any halfway competent bartender should know without being told?

Silly me -- I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to ascertain what equipment a given bar has and then tailor my order; I didn't realize it was my responsibility to ask the bartender to keep her hands out of my drink. Next time I'll know.

And I'm hardly smoldering with disdain here. I thought it was funny, in a sick sort of way, and figured it might be amusing to share related stories. I didn't realize that the profession of bartending was sacrosanct. Now I know.

Really, what kind of bartender would strain a drink with their hands??? I hate to be inflammatory here, but I've been to a LOT of bars in my life and never once have I seen one do that. Any bar should certainly have the proper equipment and if they don't, because whatever utensil or tool has somehow disappeared, I would think that they could find something else that would suffice rather than their five digits. Or is that four? Whatever...it's reprehensible. For heaven's sake, someone who's handling money among other things shouldn't have to be told that you don't appreciate your drink being passed over their fingers. ICK, ICK, ICK

[NVNVGirl]

So, question for the masses on this:  Is the person behind the bar to read minds on how you like yours prepared and no one has the hootspa to instuct politely how to make the drink to your best preference?  There is much room for style, wit, charm and fun in doing this!  (general friendly, cordial mannerisms of accepted, polite social interaction and effective communication between individuals)    Or is that simply too much effort to exude in obtaining some personally measurable pleasure in the level of service towit you are in receipt?

Beans, I've had fun with some of our local bartenders and my Palm Pilot that I keep a lot of favorite drinks on plus the DrinkBoy program. Sometimes people will order something they've never heard of and if I"m there, I just look it up for them (we live in an area heavily populated by "seniors" so a lot of the bartenders are pretty used to the Manhattans, martinis, and things like that), some of these newer "martinis" they just dont' make very often. And if I want something out of the ordinary (which Sour Apple Martinis were when I first moved here), I know how to make it so I don't have to make the bartender crazy trying to figure it out or look for a recipe when they are busy. Sometimes they've got the ingredients, sometimes they don't. But they've always got gin, so I can always make do I love bartenders; some of our best friends are bartenders and have been all their lives (but they're the GOOD bartenders ) I think my husbands' biggest problem with bartenders is that more often than not, they think they're doing him a favor by pouring heavy; he always tells them he likes his S & W "light" and "don't bury me", but a lot of times they just can't help themselves. He has no problem asking for more water tho;he's a veteran

[NVNVGirl]

There is a place here in Old Town Alexandria VA that gave part ownership to its bartenders after they had been there for 3 or 4 years. When I first moved here, I dropped in because I had heard it was one of the few "locals" bars to hang out in-- Old Town is often innundated with tourists. I think the ownership angle really made those guys aim to please. After a couple of visits, they knew what beer you liked, what cocktail you might opt for, knew you liked clams and would tell you (correctly) when they were the freshest. Drinks were often on the house for regulars. They shook your hand and wanted to know the names of any friends you brought. It was a great little homey neighborhood joint.

For the past year or so it seems the old guys moved on. It hasn't been the same since. It still has a little of its old charm, but it's rapidly becoming just any old place. 

The search continues...

Al ~ come on down here to the desert! Everywhere we go, our drinks are already sitting on the bar by the time we get there. The bartenders here are just phenomenal here and they've been that way since the day we first came here. We were back and forth between N. CA and the desert while our house was being built and even tho we'd be gone for a couple of months at a time, when we came back, the bartenders remembered our names, where we lived and what we drink....And these guys are the young ones too! You'd love it here...altho, it is a little far from VA

[tryska]

chutzpah, not hootspa.

[trillium]

Let's remember this "large, public forum" can accomadate several points of view. Just because one is complaining about all of the bad bartenders doesn't mean one is a smoldering psychopath, just as if one is complaining about the plentitude of bad customers doesn't mean one is spitting in the drinks they make, right? And really. The good ones stick out much better than the bad ones do (barkeeps that is, though probably customers too) because they are so rare. Let's not take everything as a personal attack and get defensive or turn things into popularity contests or divide up into cliques. We're all grownups and should be happy to have a little diversity of opinion in the crowd, it's a healthy thing... who knows, we might end up learning something useful.

For the record, I started a thread here about places to go to get a good, classic drink, the assumption being that it meant they had good barkeeps. There were only a few takers, JAZ being one of them. Please add to the list.

regards,

trillium

[beans]

Janet:  Did you tell the bartender you didn't appreciate he/she using their bare hand to help the straining process of that Martini, gratis or not?  Did you tell him/her to shake gently or swirl so as to stir the cocktail instead of the vigorous shaking?  Or quickly ascertaining the next possible scenario, given this barkeep lacked the proper equipment, state '____________ Gin on the rocks, with 3 olives, would be as delightful instead'?  Did you mention it to the manager that perhaps they need to outfit their staff with appropriate barwares so as to avoid that observed, vile, bad habit?  Or did you remain silent, quietly with smoldering distain and post a ranting gripe on a large, public forum?

I have to tell the bartender not to strain my drink with her hand? That's not something that any halfway competent bartender should know without being told?

Silly me -- I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to ascertain what equipment a given bar has and then tailor my order; I didn't realize it was my responsibility to ask the bartender to keep her hands out of my drink. Next time I'll know.

And I'm hardly smoldering with disdain here. I thought it was funny, in a sick sort of way, and figured it might be amusing to share related stories. I didn't realize that the profession of bartending was sacrosanct. Now I know.

Oh, I missed the funny words to evoke humour in your post Janet!

You need not have to tell the barkeep such obviousness. Perhaps you are missing the point. The point was to bring the bartender's attention that you were very aware of that habit, and was not something you found agreeable. Spelled out plainly a little better?

No, you're not in the position to ascertain their wares either. But isn't it painfully obvious they lacked the proper equipment if they are using their hands? Trust me, I'd rather not touch anything liquid, cold or sticky given the choice, regarless of health code regulation. (aside from my own moral distain for presumptively believing my guest would relish the closeness and intimacy of sharing my own germs. Blllleeeeehhhhh. )

I ask you this Janet, should they have used, say a snug and nicely fitting old fashioned glass to shake up, mistakenly, your Gin and Vermouth and then flip it around to make the old fashioned glass act as a effective strainer? What that glass was sitting on and the hands that touched it are now in your drink, albeit a different route. Me, I'd rather take the bartenders hand carefully blocking ice cubes (not exactly a full finger in my drinkie) than the bottom of the glass touching normal, run of the mill bar top scum. :blech:

Sacrosanct???? Now you're really being humourous, right?

Just being real in the real world of bartending. Janet, I recall you are not a bartender by trade and do not do so to earn a living, correct?

I'm merely voicing those options and various scenarios the customer and a bartender has only out of a betterment of understanding, and perhaps a successful exchange of good, effective communicaton for a successful transaction. Asserting a self imposed, and IMHO an improperly self perceived, "importance" and "value" are certainly not variables to that end. Does that clarify it a little?

edit: TYPOS! (at least the same word was consistently mistyped/unbeknownstly mis-spelled, for what that is worth!! )

Edited October 3, 2003 by beans (log)

[beans]

Beans, I've had fun with some of our local bartenders and my Palm Pilot that I keep a lot of favorite drinks on plus the DrinkBoy program.

Robert is beaming with that NVNVGirl! He is, without a doubt, a peach. (sorry so corny Robert!)

Aren't little technological toys grand? I have a little bartender service (literally what it is called -- the little bartender ) on my cell phone! There are a couple of obvious little typo boo boos, but nothing major and a coverage of most of the basic classics. Webtender can also be located via cellular and Pål has a lovely and comprehensive, drinkie database.