Good kosher places

[Pan]

Yeah, that's the one.

[bloviatrix]

We had dinner at La Creperie with friends on sunday night. First, let me correct the location. They're on Broadway between 98th and 99th.

Now, for my thoughts. Like all kosher places that open, especially in my neighborhood, I want to like them and I want them to do well. The jury is still out on this place - afterall most restaurants need to work out kinks when they first open.

The service was bad. Much of waitstaff aren't fluent in English which makes ordering difficult. When they finally brought out our order it was incorrect - they brought out omlettes instead of crepes. And this was with the waiter coming to verify our order just before delivering it. Secondly, the wait times for food were unreasonable. Hopefully, this is temporary.

As for the food, it was ok. Not great. I ordered French Onion Soup. The broth could have been richer. Plus, it was lacking in onions and cheese which is what makes this soup so good. Our table also ordered 2 crepes, one of which I tasted. Again, it was ok but lacking something. The presentation was a disappointment - just a single large, squarish crepe on the plate. No garnish, no side salad, nothing. I also took a taste of my friend's pasta. Rigatoni with a tomato-artichoke sauce. Pasta was out of a box. The sauce had nice flavor, but the baby artichokes were under cooked and not tender. Dessert was the best part of the meal. I ordered the Dulce de leche crepe with whipped cream. It's hard to mess that up. Plus, there was a nice interplay between the warm DDL filled crepe with the cool whipped cream. This made me happy.

I didn't have a problem with the prices. Soups were $7. Crepes range in price from $9 to about $15 depending on filling. Pastas are about $18 and fish is low $20s. But, what I found chintzy was they don't give you anything such as bread and butter when you sit down. And since they don't do anything with presentation it just seems slapped down.

Despite that, I will give the place another chance sometime in the future. I hope they get the service issues worked out. As it stands from this one visit, I would have no problem going for dessert after eating dinner at home.

[bloviatrix]

We went back tonight - it's right in the neighborhood and we wanted something other than pizza.

Service was so much better. And we didn't have to wait forever for our food. Additionally, after they took our order they came back and set some bread on the table. I ordered the mushroom quiche which came with a small salad on the side. Nicer presentation that what we previously saw. Quiche was good - had a hint of nutmeg in the background. I didn't love the olive oil used in the vinaigrette, but the salad was appropriately dressed - not drowning. Also ordered the fries. They're shoestring. Nicely seasoned with salt and pepper. Ketchup comes on a plate - not a bottle. I would have liked them a little more well done, but still enjoyed them.

We both ordered crepes for dessert. Blovie had the almond cream which I took a small sample of - good, but a little to sweet for me. I had the ricotta and strawberry. Disappointing. The crepe was over-cooked and tasted a bit charred. Plus, I expected the ricotta to be sweetened with a bit of sugar and maybe some vanilla. Instead it was quite bland. I look forward to their liquor license coming through so we can try the Crepes Suzette.

On our way out we spoke with the manager. They're waiting on the liquor license. The plan is to have a variety of wines - including many by the glass and different beers. He also mentioned they're going to open a second location on W. 46th and 9th - economies of scale.

This was definitely a better experience that the weekend. I'm feeling much more positive.

Tomorrow we lunch at Solo. Haven't been there since the fall. I'm curious to see how it is.

Edited May 19, 2005 by bloviatrix (log)

[bloviatrix]

Yesterday's lunch at Solo was wonderful. I much prefer this place for the afternoon repast than dinner. Started with the mushroom veloute, which I fell in love with back in the fall. Rich and creamy - it didn't disappoint. I ordered the braised short rib sandwich which was delicious. The short ribs had been braised in a tomato-chili based liquid and then shredded. Served on a square onion roll with cole slaw topping the meat, it was juicy and messy, and intensely flavored. The sandwich was so large that I took half home (it was too good not to take ) and had it for dinner - flavors held up, just as good. They served the sandwich with fabulous fries - these fries could teach the ones at La Creperie a lesson or two in crispiness - a small salad and the requisite pickle. The only thing that would have made the sandwich better would have been a beer. . Both of my parents ordered varieties of burgers and my husband ordered penne with sausage, broccoli, and garlic - a dish I've had in the past. I went seasonal for dessert and order the Rhubarb granita with roasted strawberries and "cream". The granita was lightly flavored with rhubarb and had flecks of vanilla caviar. My parents with the chocolate crepes which came with a house made "ice cream" and what looked like an mini apple galette.

Came home find an article about Solo's sister restaurant The Prime Grill in the latest issue of The New York Observer. It seems this place for kosher NY Powerbrokers. I'm going to pay closer attention to those sitting around me the next time I dine there. What I find amusing is that my husband hates entertaining there. He finds it too noisy to have a conversation. They did mention my preferred cut of meat from the menu - the chili rubbed hanger steak.

Finally, here are some updates:

Eden Wok has opened a location on E. 34th between Madison and Park.

Circa on W. 33rd has opened a meat restaurant across the street from the dairy location

Piece of Cake on Lex, near the Y is no longer.

Il Patrizio closed before passover.

[alacarte]

Came home find an article about Solo's sister restaurant The Prime Grill in the latest issue of The New York Observer.  It seems this place for kosher NY Powerbrokers.  I'm going to pay closer attention to those sitting around me the next time I dine there. 

Finally, here are some updates:

We went to Prime Grill for passover -- we saw Ellen Barkin and hubby Ron Perelman at the next table.

Circa on W. 33rd has opened a meat restaurant across the street from the dairy location

There's also a dairy Circa on Dey St, right next to Century 21.

Thanks for all the updates!

Has anyone been to Cafe K in midtown?

Edited May 20, 2005 by alacarte (log)

[Gifted Gourmet]

article from The NY Observer also mentioned in this thread by bloviatrix.

In decades past, the words "kosher restaurant" rarely conjured up images of $39 lunch steaks and white-aproned waiters ministering to the needs of the city’s power brokers. Instead, kosher dining was a down-market affair, rich in shtick and saturated fats, but poor in "ambiance" and gourmet delights. A product of working-class life, kosher meant old-world delis like Bernstein’s on Essex Street and greasy lunch counters like Gottlieb’s on Roebling—not the Prime Grill on 49th Street.

Must be good if gourmets like Mayor Bloomberg and Madonna are regulars ...

but how good are their steaks really? anyone have a comment?

[bloviatrix]

but how good are their steaks really?     anyone have a comment?

←

I've never eaten a treyf steak so I can't compare, but here's what I wrote last May:

I ordered the hanger steak which is supposedly chili -rubbed (I didn't pick it the flavor). I enjoyed it enormously. The meat was tender and flavorful and perfectly cooked - pink to red in throughout. Blovie ordered the 22 oz Rib Eye. His came perfectly rare as well. -- according to him it's one of the best pieces of meat he's ever eaten. I had a small sample and the meat had a great beefy taste and was almost buttery on the finish.

I last dined there in November and was just as pleased with the food (the service could use a bit of work).

[touaregsand]

Those soy faux products scare me, so I've never tried them.

The butcher I shop at sometimes makes their own sausages.  I tried them once in a white bean soup.  It was several years ago, so I don't remember the result.  Additionally, I walked by Fischer Brothers last week and they're making sausages as well.  The one that stuck out was the smoked chicken and apple.

In LA there's a kosher sausage place called Jeff's Gourmet.  I've eaten there and it's pretty good.  Messy and fun to eat.  Plus, they're generous with the carmelized onions.  They ship to NY, but I haven't done it yet.  My husband gave me a "are you out of your f'g mind" look when I suggested it to him.

←

I've been to Jeff's. My husband and I lived near there when we first got married. The general area is sometimes called "The Kosher Block". There is a good sized Iranian Jewish market down the street. And a number of Kosher eateries as I recall.

Some FYI for New Yorkers who might visit LA...

[Hyman Rosen]

We spent this Memorial Day weekend eating at a number of Upper West Side kosher restaurants.

We started Sunday morning with La Creperie. The first thing I found odd was that they didn't open until 11am. You would think that a crepe place would try to capture the breakfast/brunch crowd. They don't even serve orange juice! The service was OK, nothing special. They served bread with a dish of olive oil instead of butter, which is odd for a kosher dairy restaurant. I had a tomato and Swiss Cheese crepe, my five-year old son had a plain crepe with sugar, and my wife had a Salad Nicoise. I didn't care for the crepes at all - they were too burned on the cooked side for one, and I just didn't like them. The tomato filling in my crepe wasn't all that great either. The tuna in my wife's salad was overcooked - she says she should have asked for rare, but the waiter didn't offer a choice when we ordered. All in all, my wife liked it much more than I did. She would be willing to eat there again. I wouldn't unless I hear reports of dramatic improvement.

Sunday evening after a pleasant day spent at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and in Central Park we tried to have dinner at Mike's Bistro at around 4:30pm, only to discover that they were not serving for another half hour. So instead, we went next door to the JT Cafe in the Judaica Treasures store. The service is rather charmingly amateurish. The waitresses seem like very nice high school students without lots of experience. Cups and cutlery are all disposable plastic. We got a bread basket with a nice assortment of breads and crackers, this time with butter. I ordered a Pasta Milanese, my wife ordered a salmon and vegetable wrap, and my son ordered a plate of plain pasta. All the portions were large, and the food tasted good. We all split a huge hunk of chocolate mousse cake for dessert, which was also very good. (Part of the charmingly amateurish service - my wife and son went upstairs to pick the cake, and there was this one large slice remaining - easily a double portion. They just told her to take the whole thing.) We had a pleasant time, and would gladly return for a casual lunch or dinner.

Monday evening we finally made it to Mike's Bistro and successfully ate there. We got the requisite plates of bread and olive oil. The bread was very good - rolls with crisp and chewy crusts. My son, who loves bread, ate a couple of these. I ordered the gnocchi and duck appetizer, a seared rib-eye steak, and coconut bread pudding for dessert. I also had a small pitcher of sangria and an Irish coffee. (The Irish coffee had Jameson's, peppermint schnapps, and fake milk and still managed to taste like the real thing.) My wife had the porcini mushroom soup and a roasted chicken breast. My son had french fries and a special order of plain sliced cucumber (he's at a picky eating age) which arrived stacked in a leaning tower. A friend who accompanied us and who is a light eater had the same soup and a garden salad. I thought the food was very good. The meat especially was done to perfection - I ordered medium rare and it arrived a beautiful pink throughout with crispy seared top and bottom, exactly the way I like it. My wife and friend thought that the soup was too salty, though, and our friend wasn't impressed by the salad - she thought it was too ordinary. They also serve a nice assortment of wines and scotches. I would gladly go back for more, and it's a place where you can bring a non kosher-eating friend or business associate without embarrassment.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Hyman Rosen (log)

[bloviatrix]

Last week I hit Kings Highway in Brooklyn for a bit of shopping and eating. I've been a quest for kosher tamarind paste for months which is what led to my leaving the island of Manhattan. It's actually very easy to get there - F train to Kings Highway. The shops are just east of the station. We went into Bat Yam to survey the scene but did our shopping at Holon. Among my purchases was tamarind paste, pickled cauliflower, my favorite botnim americayim - these are the most authentic I've tasted outside of Israel, lah majin, kofte kababs, spicy sausages and some raw meat - the price of first cut brisket was insanely cheap: $6.99/lb. It seems brisket isn't a popular cut in the Syrian community hence the good price. I was sorry I didn't bring a car so I could buy more stuff (that fact my freezer is full has nothing to do with it).

We stopped for lunch at place whose name I can't recall. But they had a fabulous lunch special - $9.99 for a soup, main, 2 sides, and soda. I went with the Syrian soup which was a tomato based broth with some veg but dominated by a biggish piece of potato and some meat - texture was that of flanken. Not as spicy as I hoped, but hit the spot on a raw day. For the main I went with the beef shish. Good, but it could have used a more agressive spice rub. I chose the "chips" and mejadra (rice, lentils, fried onions) as my sides. Chips were as expected - not done well enough. But the mejadra was fabulous. Total comfort food. I also took a taste of my friend M.'s okra in tomato sauce. I don't think I've eaten okra before so I can't really comment. But I will try it again so that's a plus.

Our final stop was Mansoura which is a bakery specializing in Middle Eastern pastries. Picked up some baklava, almond fingers, konafa (looks like sushi - shredded phyllo with a pistachio center), basbousa (a very moist cake with coconut and almond) and maamoul w/pistachio (a savory pastry filled with pistachio and a hint of rosewater). Also got some turkish delight and the apricot roll.

It was a fun afternoon. The trip on the subway isn't that bad, especially if you have someone keeping you company. My one regret is that I didn't have a car so I could schlep more stuff home.

[Hyman Rosen]

Last week I hit Kings Highway in Brooklyn for a bit of shopping and eating. We stopped for lunch at place whose name I can't recall.

From the location and description of the food, it sounds like Mabat Steak House. I've been there a bunch of times because my mom lives in Brooklyn and she likes to eat there when we visit. The last time I was there it seemed to have gone downhill a bit - most of the skewered meat was tough and the whole place was smoky.

Have you been to Famous Pita on Coney Island Avenue near Newkirk? It's your typical shwarma joint but on steroids. Absolutely enormous shwarma rotisseries, barbecued chicken, even sushi. It's open until the wee hours, and it's always packed. Decent salad bar to go with the meat. It's the sort of place you'll like if you like that sort of food. My mom and I do, so we go there and absolutely pig out (so to speak). My wife hates shwarma and just stares at us in disbelief.

[bloviatrix]

Last week I hit Kings Highway in Brooklyn for a bit of shopping and eating. We stopped for lunch at place whose name I can't recall.

From the location and description of the food, it sounds like Mabat Steak House. I've been there a bunch of times because my mom lives in Brooklyn and she likes to eat there when we visit. The last time I was there it seemed to have gone downhill a bit - most of the skewered meat was tough and the whole place was smoky.

←

It wasn't Mabat. I don't know what the Bklyn branch of Mabat is like, but I don't like the one Teaneck. I found the meat they used to be very tough and overly salty.

[weinoo]

I was checking the NY board and really haven't found a lot of current information, other than a couple of Indian koshers in Curry Hill.

Any new kosher places of note open within, say, the last year or so?

If they're not of note, but good, that would be great also!

I've heard about a place called La Carne Grill - anyone been?

Anyone been to Le Marais in the past year?

Just asking...

[Pan]

I think this thread is due for an update. Actually, I have a personal reason to want one: My mother's birthday is coming up in less than 2 weeks, and her best friend (my godmother) is kosher and won't eat in a restaurant that is not both kosher and shomer Shabbos (that is, closed on the Sabbath). Lately, we've been going to Le Marais, and though years ago, I thought it was quite good, lately, it has been mediocre and overpriced.

My favorite kosher restaurants tend to be the South Indian places my godmother won't go to because they're open on Saturdays, or inexpensive falafel/shawarma or hummus specialist places. But they are not celebratory enough for a birthday.

I've been looking at some Chowhound threads on their Kosher and Manhattan boards. My mother and I are suspicious of places that try to do a little of this (from Mexico), a little of that (from Japan), and a little of the other thing (from Malaysia, Thailand, etc.). Although, in theory, a good restaurant should be able to cook satisfying food from here, there, and yon, and many home cooks do that successfully, in practice, that kind of eclecticism is usually a red flag at restaurants without "Momofuku" in their names. That said, here are some places I'm looking at, based on recommendations in those threads:

Mike's Bistro's New American menu may be a winner. My mother may be skeptical of the fusion aspects of its sensibility, but it certainly is not trying to present Malaysian, Mexican, and Italian food all on the same menu.

Tevere has garnered some good reports and is serving a genuine Jewish cuisine (Jewish Roman food), but it's pretty overpriced (a common problem with kosher meat, where a shochet and mashgiach have to be employed, etc.) and its menu isn't hugely interesting.

The oddly named (for a kosher restaurant) Turquoise Seafood Restaurant has also been the subject of good reports, but it's not really apparent to me what its cuisine is, except that it isn't "American (Traditional)." What is the place's forte?

Abigael's was rejected by both my mother and me for excessive eclecticism, and she also has rejected Prime Grill and Solo, for reasons not entirely clear to me.

What are your experiences with some or all of these places? Any advice? Thank you in advance.

[weinoo]

My experience is that none of them offer any price/value relative to the food.

Fine & Shapiro, for decent kosher deli.

[Pan]

I understand that almost any kosher meat restaurant will be overpriced relative to treyf places, because of inherent costs of kashrut and also supply and demand. So that isn't really the question. The problem with "mediocre and overpriced" isn't really the prices but that it feels even worse to have mediocrity if it's overpriced.

Anyway, I appreciate your recommendation (I was starting to wonder if anyone would reply!) but find it hard to get excited over Fine and Shapiro's. I had my bar mitzvah catered by them when they were a "kosher-style" deli, and it was for convenience (they were close to the synagogue), not because they were ever close to being the best deli in town. I haven't been there for decades, but is it celebratory? Is it better than 2nd Av. Deli (which I'm almost positive we're not going to for this)?

[weinoo]

I understand that almost any kosher meat restaurant will be overpriced relative to treyf places, because of inherent costs of kashrut and also supply and demand. So that isn't really the question. The problem with "mediocre and overpriced" isn't really the prices but that it feels even worse to have mediocrity if it's overpriced.

Anyway, I appreciate your recommendation (I was starting to wonder if anyone would reply!) but find it hard to get excited over Fine and Shapiro's. I had my bar mitzvah catered by them when they were a "kosher-style" deli, and it was for convenience (they were close to the synagogue), not because they were ever close to being the best deli in town. I haven't been there for decades, but is it celebratory? Is it better than 2nd Av. Deli (which I'm almost positive we're not going to for this)?

Celebratory - no, not really. I haven't been to the "new" 2nd Ave. Deli (which probably isn't kosher enough for your needs anyway).

The annoying thing about kosher is that it doesn't have to be as lousy as it is in so many restaurants. I mean, vegetables are kosher, grains are kosher, most fish is kosher...so why can't it be well prepared? I can make a delicious stew with lamb or beef, an awesome roast chicken, some pretty damn good risotto, etc. etc., all with kosher product...and restaurants that charge the prices that fancy kosher places charge should be able to as well.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Fine and Shapiro catered our son's bris about three years ago. Eh. It's okay, if you need kosher, but the food is nothing special, and the atmosphere of the restaurant is a lot like that of a diner. I also think they are kosher but not shomer shabbos.

I've never been to Estihana, the kosher sushi place in the same neighborhood, but I've always been curious about it--

http://www.estihana.com/manhattan/

[Pan]

Don't go to Estihana. It is HORRIBLE! Really, really horrible!

weinoo, you're right that 2nd Av. Deli wouldn't work for this purpose, anyway, because they are open on Saturdays. And you're also right that there is no inherent reason kosher food can't be great. I think part of the problem is that there's a degree of oligopolism in higher-end kosher eateries, because the number of kosher restaurants, although larger in New York than most other places in the world, is still limited, yet there is a substantial clientele that demands only kosher food. Therefore, many kosher establishments can get away with not trying much, or even presenting execrable food.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks for the warning! It seemed like a good concept.

[raji]

Don't go to Estihana. It is HORRIBLE! Really, really horrible!

[Pan]

I should add one caveat: It's been a while since I went to Estihana (not sure how long; possibly as much as a couple of years). However, unless they are under completely new management, I'd avoid them like the swine flu.

[Pan]

Just in case anyone is interested, here's my report on Mike's Bistro:

Based on our experience, it is a flat-out good restaurant. Service was excellent. The decor was a bit strange; I felt the lamps looked like soccer balls, and my mother didn't like the looks of the white rose on our table, which was in a combination of water and some kind of preservative jelly, and she had the staff remove it. But the service and food were the most important things.

For apps, my mother and godmother shared the "Handmade Gnocchi duck & chicken confit, roasted portobello mushrooms, fresh thyme, duck jus." I didn't get a taste, but they both really liked it. My father and I got individual portions of "Crispy Veal Sweetbreads english pea puree, fresh corn, marinated tomato, veal glace, mushrooms." I found them kind of salty and not as good as the amazing sweetbread dish I had at Degustation or the good sweetbread dish I had at lunch at Jean Georges, but the mushrooms really helped the dish.

However, mains were yet to come. Three of us ordered "Sautéed Duck Breast duck confit leg, sweet & sour red cabbage, yam fritters, cranberry port sauce." This was excellent! The yam fritters were delicious and an inspired element, the duck breast was nicely cooked, and though the leg was a bit salty, that really didn't bother me much. The sauce was very nice, and the cabbage was a wonderful, upscale homage to Central/East European Jewish (and also non-Jewish) cuisine. Just a really good dish that pleased all of us.

My father got "Black Angus Rib Eye Fillet." Due to dietary restrictions, he cannot eat potatoes or green beans, and they were kind enough to substitute buckwheat pilaf with golden raisins. I tried a small slice of his rib eye, and it was excellent.

My mother, the birthday girl, was comped a slice of very good chocolate mousse cake with raspberry sauce that she shared with the table.

My godmother and I had a very good merlot-cab blend with the meal, which went very well with the duck. I had two glasses.

Our experience was so much better than what we've been having at Le Marais. I expect that we will return.

All menu descriptions frrom Mike's Bistro's website.

[DanM]

I want to bump this to see if there are new suggestions in the five boroughs.

Dan

[patrickamory]

I miss Grand Dairy