Dining in San Diego

[Carlsbad]

For sitting, take a look at Athens Market and Indigo Grill. You can walk to the former and the latter is a short trolley ride away, and you can eat at the bar at either one if you want. Bandar is also interesting and walkable.

[John Talbott]

For sitting, take a look at Athens Market and Indigo Grill.  You can walk to the former and the latter is a short trolley ride away, and you can eat at the bar at either one if you want.  Bandar is also interesting and walkable.

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Thanks Carlsbad; I've only been here for 8 hours but so far I've had an impressive lunch of a great halibut taco at Tin Fish, with weird but tasty latticed fried potatoes and wonderfully raw coleslaw and a dinner with Pacific oysters, cote de boeuf, giant lima beans, zucchini with cheese, salad of fresh greens, string beans, etc., and cookies at a private venue (the point being, that the product in the markets here is terrific.)

[John Talbott]

Day 2:

Business lunch at the Westgate, not totally bad, but hotel stuff after all: salad nice, tomato soup and unmemorable main. Fine iced tea.

Dinner at Chive, however, was quite another matter; quite El Bulli, Alinea, Les Magnolias. Two of us shared the beet terrine (very inventive), scallops with black forbidden rice (terrific) and sweetbreads kung pao with green bamboo rice (so good) and then the Moroccan spiced chicken with lime yogurt (who would'ave thought?) and duck breast (perfectly underdone) with bok choy, etc., ending with the apple/rhubarb galette. With the cheapest Ten Mile wine ($32) the bill was a very reasonable $113.68. Go back? Right soon!

[BSK]

You are welcome kalypso.  La Bastide was also on my list until I found out that they had just lost their executive chef, Patrick Ponsaty...

See under San Diego

http://www.jamesbeard.org/dateline/

Longtime San Diego favorite Patrick Ponsaty has left his executive chef post at Scripps Ranch's Bastide. Ponsaty, who opened the restaurant, had a huge following for his simple bistro-style cuisine. He has not yet announced what’s next but plans to stay in San Diego.

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I'd heard that he was at Bernard'O - is it true and if so, has anyone been there lately?

[Swicks]

John,

I am glad you are having a sucessful eating experience. I apologize for my one limited reply, i was out of town.

I actually meant to recommend Chive as well, its really a great spot, I am glad you enjoyed. If you are still in the area you might also want to try Rama for some good Thai food in a cool environment.

[mcohen]

I haven't had a chance to put together my review of Thee Bungalow yet, but I wanted to post an article from San Diego Magazine that I had read this week and found pretty accurate.  The article is mostly addressed to the people who don't take the restaurant scene in San Diego seriously.  I know that there are a few comments to that effect floating around on egullet or elsewhere, and that always bugs me a little (ok - a lot! it's probably what motivated me to join egullet in the first place).  So I thought that this article was pretty much right on target.  I am very familiar with the restaurants discussed in the review, and concur on the conclusion - yes, San Diego restaurants need more recognition overall!  Compared to LA, I feel that we have nothing to be ashamed of.

San Diego versus L.A. - A Los Angeles food maven compares some of our best local restaurants with those of LaLa Land

Some excerpts

I have always loved visiting San Diego, but I’ve always been just another tourist. Still, armed with a list of what many San Diego experts consider some of the best of their best, I ventured forward. To my amazement, I found the cuisine to be state of the culinary art.

Food and wine prices in San Diego have ascended to the same astronomical heights as those in my megalopolis. Service may still be a tad less sophisticated, but one thing is certain: San Diego chefs compare favorably to any on the West Coast and, in many cases, to chefs on both coasts and all points between. The area’s restaurants deserve more attention, and accolades, from those who consider themselves arbiters of the culinary arts—namely, the national food press.

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i moved out of san diego a couple of years ago, and maybe the food has suddenly gotten a lot better in the last few years. but, one thing that still hasn't changed is the city's inferiority complex especially in relationship to los angeles.

take this article for instance. now, if the point was that the food in sd wasn't as mediocre as it used to be, then that might be a fair point. but, the article loses all credibility when it claims that the best food in san diego is just as good, if not better, than the best food in new york, san francisco, and la.

let's just examine the article's logic to see how it came up with that claim. it makes the point that la doesn't have a little italy section, whereas san diego does. thus, according to the article, san diego has better italian food better than los angeles. does anybody else recognize how ridiculous that argument is? that's like saying nyc's little italy doesn't have any good italian restaurants, and thus san diego has a decent italian restaurant in its little italy, ergo san diego has better italian food than nyc and conviently ignoring italian places like babbo.

its not that surprising that the article would make these claims since the whole point of the magazine, san diego, is to sell readers about how good life is in san diego. if the article had been less than complimentary, do you really think it would have been printed? next thing the mag will be telling the reader is how the san diego union-tribune newspaper is just as good, if not better, than the new york times.

[John Talbott]

John,

I am glad you are having a sucessful eating experience.  I apologize for my one limited reply, i was out of town.

I actually meant to recommend Chive as well, its really a great spot, I am glad you enjoyed.  If you are still in the area you might also want to try Rama for some good Thai food in a cool environment.

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Well, interesting you should endorse Chive. I had to do medical meeting stuff for breakfast and lunch today (respectively at the Omni and Candelas), that actually weren't half-bad, indeed, the margarita "Cadillac" and empanada with mushrooms, salad and chiles rellenos and espressos ristrettos at the latter were quite good.

But after a rather more than OK cocktail reception at the Maritime Museum aka the "Berkeley," catered by Contintental, I headed out for San Diego's best taco place, the Mexican Fiesta on India between Ash & Beach and wouldn't you know, my source forgot to tell me it was a lunch place.

So grab a cab home and gosh there was Chive at 9 o'clock, no space, no rez, but the bar - oh yes. So it's Mad Mondays, which is 50% off wine, OK. I repeated last nite's Ten Mile (carignane, petite syrah, zin & barbara.) Then an intense consume with chili oil and lemon grass and glass noodles and spring roll (now hold on) with two sauce bowls of (1) an English pea puree with not enuf wasabi, a (2) mango coulis with not enuf oompf and (3) a cole slaw with ginger which was perfect. End of story, I retired from the field of play, a happy man.

[Octaveman]

If you are still in the area you might also want to try Rama for some good Thai food in a cool environment.

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If you do, ask to sit in the back close to the back wall. I won't tell you what's back there but it's a very very nice spot to sit and eat your meal.

[rmillman]

Not a restaurant review but just spent the weekend with firends in SD. Since they are new with child, we spent most of the weekend at the house cooking and eating.

Two things of note:

1) Chino Farms: Rancho Sante Fe

http://www.kqed.org/weblog/food/2005/08/ta...chino-farms.jsp

Bought some of the best produce I have seen in a long time, yellow, purple, orange and white carrots, three colors of beets, a dozen types of greens, the best french stawberrys, and herbs galore. With things this fresh, you do not need to do much to them

2) Whole Foods, La Jolla

I live two blocks from a WF in Boston, but this market blew me away. They have an in store meat dry aging locker and they carry prime steak as well. Many of the small producer products I mail order were there as well including La Quercia Prosciutto, Fra Mani salumi, and over 25 different kinds of salt. Sea Food was excellent as well with an instore smoker for things like smoked mussles and fish.

Both worth checking out.

[kalypso]

let's just examine the article's logic to see how it came up with that claim. it makes the point that la doesn't have a little italy section, whereas san diego does. thus, according to the article, san diego has better italian food better than los angeles. does anybody else recognize how ridiculous that argument is? that's like saying nyc's little italy doesn't have any good italian restaurants, and thus san diego has a decent italian restaurant in its little italy, ergo san diego has better italian food than nyc and conviently ignoring italian places like babbo.

its not that surprising that the article would make these claims since the whole point of the magazine, san diego, is to sell readers about how good life is in san diego. if the article had been less than complimentary, do you really think it would have been printed? next thing the mag will be telling the reader is how the san diego union-tribune newspaper is just as good, if not better, than the new york times.

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I think your point is well taken and valid. San Diego is not NYC, Chicago, San Franscisco or even Los Angeles. Nor should it be, it has it's own identity and that's evolving. San Diego is a nice little military town with strong midwestern roots, that is no longer so small and has grown and changed faster than it can quite adapt. What it lacks is worldly sophistication it more than makes up for in other quality of life factors.

When the tuna fleet/industry was still a big part of the city economy there was a strong Italian (along with Portugese) community, but Little Italy was hardly the a destination, dining or otherwise. Little Italy is now store front after store front of Italian restaurants, mostly owned by the same family (sold the seiner and entered the resto biz), serving mostly mediocre food. There are a few gems in Little Italy, they aren't all necessarily Italian. I seriously doubt it's close to any of the East coast Italian enclaves and certainly not the motherland, Italy.

As for the article in SD Magazine. Yes, I actually do think had the article been less flattering to the SD restaurants it still would have been published. I had lunch recently with the Editor (in Chief) of SD Magazine - in Little Italy of all places - and think he would have had the guts and nerve to have published it. BTW, SD Magazine is the granddaddy of this genre of magazine. It was the first magazine published that devoted itself entirely to one city. That was 40 or so years ago. Thankfully, both the city and the magazine have come a long way in that time.

No, the U/T is not a world class paper and there is no question their weekly food section is on of the worst imaginable. Completely useless. But...their reporters have not had to resign because they plagerized material or fudged the facts. In fact, they recently won several Pulitzer Prizes for the reporting they did about U.S. (House) Representative Randy "Duke" Cunningham that eventually led to his being convicted of multiple crimes. The U/T did manage to expose a corrupt congressmen, for which he is now imprisoned. Not too shabby for a second rate rag.

Come back for a visit. I think you'll find the food truly is getting better here. San Diego isn't particularly a fine dining destination, and maybe it never will be, but it is getting easier to get a pretty good meal here.

Edited May 22, 2007 by kalypso (log)

[kalypso]

La Bastide was also on my list until I found out that they had just lost their executive chef, Patrick Ponsaty...

I'd heard that he was at Bernard'O - is it true and if so, has anyone been there lately?

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Yes, he is at Bernard O. I have not been, but reports are that the food is very consistent and very good. Another good bet is Cavillion in Santa Luz.

Not French, but currently getting tremendous buzz is Market, in Del Mar, East side of the I-5, on Via de la Valle

Edited May 22, 2007 by kalypso (log)

[kalypso]

I headed out for San Diego's best taco place, the Mexican Fiesta on India between Ash & Beach and wouldn't you know, my source forgot to tell me it was a

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John, if you've got the time and a car (cab would be too expensive) check out Mama Testa Taqueria in Hillcrest on University. Tacos only place. 26 different varieties, one for each state in the Republic of Mexico. Cochinita Pibil is marinated correctly and the chorizo is made in-house. To be honest I think better carnitas and al pastor are available other places, but everything else on the menu is good and as reasonably "authentic" (a truly bad descriptor and choice of words) as you can get NOB (north of the border). Best salsa bar in town.

Candelas is very good, but the best all-round Mexican place changed concepts a couple of months ago becuase after 10 years they got tire of people coming in looking for burritos. The next best all-round Mexican is Super Cocina at 37th and University, which is definitly not tourist territory in anyone's book. This is comdia casera, home-style cooking, at it's best in San Diego.

Do not be talked into going to Las Cuatros Milpas for tacos. They are grease-bombs, but the table salsa is outstanding.

Edited May 22, 2007 by kalypso (log)

[Swicks]

La Bastide was also on my list until I found out that they had just lost their executive chef, Patrick Ponsaty...

I'd heard that he was at Bernard'O - is it true and if so, has anyone been there lately?

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Yes, he is at Bernard O. I have not been, but reports are that the food is very consistent and very good. Another good bet is Cavillion in Santa Luz.

Not French, but currently getting tremendous buzz is Market, in Del Mar, East side of the I-5, on Via de la Valle

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I myself have not been but a very close friend has been to Market and absolutely loved it.

[John Talbott]

Today I delivered on my yearly promise to take my French colleagues to lunch at a place that represents the cuisine of the city we’re meeting in. Thus we found ourselves at the Barrio Logan location of Porkyland, 2196 Logan, where I treated my five guests and myself to carnitas in various preparations, which when doused with peppers and salsa were terrific (one citing the “porkiness,” even though I’d given her the name and concept before, had chicken.) Our bill, a world’s record for this gang = $26.12.

The evening’s meal was a bit more classy at Guild, 1805 Newton Ave., with my Americophilic-Franco-Romanian pal. If you haven’t been, it’s wonderful albeit only 4 month’s old; the Guild name is because of the arty design/furniture/art/etc down to the bathroom (1), the staff (all artists or aspiring) and the metal/wood workshop visible through the floor-length window in the back; the food a blend of Latin/French and American, reflecting the Argentinian chef’s journey through cooking life and the dedication to guild-like artisinal food. We started with sharing a queso roasted pasilla with feta, gorgonzola and roja cream (which was divine, indeed it all was!) and then split a Japanese fish preparation special that I really cannot describe (but it was good to the last bite) and the mahi-mahi tacos. We then made a strategic (or was it tactical) error in ordering three cheeses thinking, silly Western Europeans that we aspire to be, that they’d be Californian, but they were French and Italian, good, indeed perfect, but, you know, not what we’d set our hearts on. They then compt’d us to a passion fruit martini, (yes for dessert), recognizing my distinguished guest as a man not to be dealt lightly with. My buddy rated it as a 9/10; me 6.5, but I’m a tough guy to please. Go back? In a flash, but why do the hotel clerks keep telling us it’s a tough area? These guys don’t know burgeoning food districts. The bill, oh, the bill. OK, for all that plus a bottle and a half of Spanish wine = $85.12 before the tip.

Oh, I forgot, my concierge paid me a tribute I've not received since 1970 at the Hotel Regina in Paris - their kudos - "Sir, you have some list of restaurants." Last time, it was member Paga, this time, Paga, his son Fils d'Élan and all the eGullet members who've tried to steer me in the correct direction.

Edited May 23, 2007 by John Talbott (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

I've been reading through this whole thread -- so many new places since I lived in San Diego! As it happens, I am flying in next week for a quick, over-night reunion. Flying in Saturday morning (long enough to find a good place for lunch) before driving to Carlsbad for said reunion. Turning around and flying back early Sunday evening (long enough to find a good place for lunch).

In my old days, I would head to Ichiban in Hillcrest before going to Karen Krasne's Extraordinary Desserts place for a slice of cake down on 5th. It has been over a dozen years since I lived in the area and would welcome suggestions for lunch. Ida Bailey's in the Gaslamp used to be a favorite for me as well for lunch...

[Swicks]

Where in SD will you be and what type of food do you desire?

[Kouign Aman]

Ichiban and Extraordinary Desserts are both still there, if you're going for nostalgia. But there is definitely better, if not cheaper, food for lunch than Ichiban. (which reminds me, I need to put Ichiban on MizDucky's cheap eats thread especially for the half price sushi M-T, 4-7 pm).

Sounds like you've got the ability to go anywhere from downtown to Carlsbad. Nice.

[Swicks]

Well, I am a big sandwich guy for lunch, and to wit, I really enjoy the old standby of The Cheese Shop downtown.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Swicks, I remember The Cheese Shop! I'll probably want more than a mere sandwich as I am anticipating the food at the reunion to be really, really bad. I guess what I want is a Piret's but, alas-alas, that is no more. I nice bistro lunch that will give me something substantive for the entire day (at least for Saturday).

For Sunday, I seem to recall a really fabulous breakfast joint somewhere in Encinitas or Leucadia that might enable me to eat lighter that day. It will be nostalgic for me as I lived in San Diego for my formative eating years...

[kalypso]

Swicks, I remember The Cheese Shop! I'll probably want more than a mere sandwich as I am anticipating the food at the reunion to be really, really bad. I guess what I want is a Piret's but, alas-alas, that is no more. I nice bistro lunch that will give me something substantive for the entire day (at least for Saturday).

For Sunday, I seem to recall a really fabulous breakfast joint somewhere in Encinitas or Leucadia that might enable me to eat lighter that day. It will be nostalgic for me as I lived in San Diego for my formative eating years...

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Luckily, the airport is right downtown conveniently located close to so many places. There are any number of options. If it's bistro you're after, Cafe Chloe may fit the bill.

India St. the length of Little Italy is chock-a-block with Italian restaurants of varying quality. While I'm certainly not an advocate of drinking and then driving Sogno di Vino is one of the better spots in Little Italy. It's casual, serves interesting wines, salads, sandwiches and antipastos. It's more substantial than it sounds. I had lunch recently at Buon Appetito and was happy with it. This used to be the best bet in Little Italy, but reports have surfaced in the last couple of weeks that there have been some uncharacteristic inconsistencies and flaws. The Shakespear Pub is at the end of India and has surprisingly good food.

Further north on India (which is one way going north), closer to Washington St. the Blue Water Grill . It's definitely not fancy, but the fish is impecable. I've been buying fresh fish here for the last 3 years and have yet to get bad fish.

Skip anything in Old Town. Since the State Dept. of Parks turned the contract over to Delaware North the whole place has gone so far downhill it's unbelievable. Bazaar del Mundo is gone, totally gone.

I've never had a bad meal at Cantina Panaderia . While I think it really shines best at breakfast, their lunch fare is also very good. The place is funky, the food is good. Pacific Beach seems to be in kind of a beachy "shabby chic" phase with lots of bars catering to 20-somethings and eateries that have seen better days. However, there is a shiny new entry on Garnet, just past Cass that is well worth a visit. Limonz does Mexican style chicken, and they do it very well. You can also get ribs that would not qualify for Memphis in May, but they can qualify as some of the best in SD.

And speaking of BBQ, Phil's BBQ has moved from Mission Hills out to the Sport Arena and is doing booming business. Serious Q fans lament that it's not "authentic" but that doesn't mean it isn't really, really good. And it will hold you pretty much all day.

It's not exactly on the I-5 corridor to Encinitas/Leucadia but it is only a short detour over to Scripps Ranch and La Bastide . This is back to the bistro theme and well worth the detour. I thought service was a bit slow, but I was in no hurry last time I dined there so it wasn't an issue.

If you want to consider brunch before heading back on Sunday head to Santa Luz and Cavaillon Restaurant , it's in a developing (and very upscale area) sandwiched between Rancho Santa Fe and Carmel Valley Ranch.

If the reunion turns out not to be your thing you can always duck out to Market Restaurant in Del Mar. It's the current darling of the foodie groups.

Two of the best kept lunch secrets in La Jolla are Tapenade and Nine-Ten . The hamburger at 910 consistently rates as one of the best in SD. I love the food there but I have almost always found the service to be the weak point. Tapenade is exquisite, their lunch special used to be $15 and was a stellar 3-course affair.

And finally, were you possibly thinking of The Beach Grass Cafe or Swami's as the breakfast spot in Encinitas?

Enjoy your trip and tell us where you ended up.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Kalypso - what a great line-up! Cafe Chloe looked really good but (sadly) appears to not be open on weekends.

I will probably end up driving up the 101 corridor, skipping La Jolla and PB to head towards the Del Mar square and the Lumberyard in Encinitas. When I was growing up in Oceanside, I would bike down as far as I could (usually just beyond Del Mar) so those are the little communities I want to re-visit. I used to snorkle at Swami's Beach below the Self-Realization Fellowship and there are some antique shops around there I like (and a great yarn store). Then there is the square in Carlsbad, as well.

Heading straight to La Jolla on Sunday is appealing so Tapenade and Nine-Ten might be my best Sunday option. I'll report back, undoubtedly!

Also, Beach Grass Cafe *might* have been it although that was 10 years ago and I don't have a clue of a name. It was just unusual and fabulous...

[kalypso]

Kalypso - what a great line-up! Cafe Chloe looked really good but (sadly) appears to not be open on weekends.

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Cafe Chloe is, indeed, open on weekends but they only do brunch and dinner. Check out their brunch menu, it's short.

I forgot all about it but Meritage in The Lumberyard does a nice job and they've got some very pleasant outside dining. After lunch you can walk a couple doors down to Chuao Chocolatiers for dessert, their chocolates are outstanding.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Kalypso - what a great line-up! Cafe Chloe looked really good but (sadly) appears to not be open on weekends.

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Cafe Chloe is, indeed, open on weekends but they only do brunch and dinner. Check out their brunch menu, it's short.

I forgot all about it but Meritage in The Lumberyard does a nice job and they've got some very pleasant outside dining. After lunch you can walk a couple doors down to Chuao Chocolatiers for dessert, their chocolates are outstanding.

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Chuao was one of the reasons I wanted to go back to the Lumberyard and I've dined at Meritage for dinner -- several years ago when I still worked in the wine industry. Glad they are still around. Do you remember - there used to be vegan restaurant across the street and south a way? 25 years ago, it was the first place I remember serving fresh juice (raspberry!) in a carafe and they had the most amazing mushroom stroganoff...

[kalypso]

Chuao was one of the reasons I wanted to go back to the Lumberyard and I've dined at Meritage for dinner -- several years ago when I still worked in the wine industry. Glad they are still around. Do you remember - there used to be vegan restaurant across the street and south a way? 25 years ago, it was the first place I remember serving fresh juice (raspberry!) in a carafe and they had the most amazing mushroom stroganoff...

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25 years ago I had already moved to Los Angeles and didn't return to San Diego until 2001. Encinitas was wonderful back then, I always wanted to live there (or Del Mar), now you couldn't pay me enough to live in either place. Too, too crowded, too congested and far too expensive. I think that's penalty for having grown up in SD and knowing how reasonably priced it once was I wasn't much into the weeds and seeds concept back then, so I'm afraid I can't help you on the old vegan restaurant.

If you haven't visited Chuao before, I don't think you'll be disappointed. They used to do chocolate classes at their Lumberyard location ( I took 2 of them and had a fabulous time doing them) but I understand they've moved the classes up to a bigger location in Carlsbad. I like all their bon-bon flavors with the exception of the one with goat cheese, which is just about their most popular one. I really love one they do with pasilla chiles, raisins and a few other ingredients. If they're still doing the passionfruit filling give it a try. Their spicy hot chocolate mixes are very popular in SD and they serve it at all their shops, which would have been a welcome thing this week since it's been so cold and the May Gray has been sticking to the county like white on rice.

[Swicks]

Great suggestions Kalypso. Not sure if I can add much else really, those are all great. I do love Harry's for breakfast in downtown La Jolla as well.