Dining in San Diego

[kalypso]

Haven't been yet, but my musician buddies in The Steely Damned are playing there July 3rd, so I'm going to see if I can weasel my way onto the guest list--which will hopefully leave me a few bucks in my wallet to try the food.

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[Kouign Aman]

Quick question: good friends looking for a nice meal out in San Diego. They would like to keep it under $100 per person total.  They are not adventurous eaters (very traditional Midwest in both upbringing and palate).  I have a host of sushi and other more adventurous restaurants recommendations - but they wouldnt' apply here.  Need help!

Thanks!

u.e.

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The Marine Room is lovely, and traditional in style.

If they dont drink much, they should be able to stay on budget.

The view is very So Cal: big windows at beach level.Marine Room webpage The home page takes a while to load; when it does, theres a video tour available. The menu bar comes up pretty fast, and can be used to check out the other kind of menu while the rest of the page is thinking about loading.

[Octaveman]

Ate there for Thanksgiving 2003 and was quite good. Ate there again for brunch Mother's Day 2007 and was not as good as I remembered. This was the buffet so take that into consideration. I've never eatin there off their regular menu so it may be good, I wouldn't know. The location is very nice with a great view of the ocean. I'd ask for a window seat though to get the view unobstructed. Nice hotel too.

[kalypso]

So I tried this new place in Hillcrest on Sunday. It's on 5th between University and Washington and is called Casa de Madera; it's in that Hillcrest center with the movie theaters. It's a new upscale Mexican place; gorgeous interior. Interesting combination of the typical Mexican menu items, but also some really interesting (Tostada de Pulpo) and creative choices. Lunch menu trends more towards the usual suspects, dinner menu more towards the creative.

Definitely not taqueria style food, but also not exactly alt-cocina either. It's stylized Mexican, clearly not authentic, but part of what impressed me was that the flavors were pretty true and fairly clear. The rajas used in one of the quesadilla preparations were excellent, so were the sauteed hongos. No chips and salsa, decent maggies. Dark red table salsa is made from chile de arbol and is pretty good, one if tomatillo and decent, one is mild red and really much too mild and rather uninteresting.

Did it knock my socks off? No, but with the sudden closure of Chilangos it appears to be a viable alternative, and a good choice for mid-range interesting Mexican food. Additionally, as we were leaving one of the principles asked for feed back on how they were doing and what they could do to improve (they've only been open about 3 weeks).

[Kouign Aman]

Hi Kalypso.

What makes you say its "clearly not authentic"?

I'm fascinated by how much that phrase gets used in describing so cal mexican food.

[kalypso]

Hi Kalypso.

What makes you say its "clearly not authentic"? 

I'm fascinated by how much that phrase gets used in describing so cal mexican food.

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You have to remember that I travel in Mexico frequently, including off the beaten path. I've eaten all over Mexico in all kinds of venues from street stalls to alt-cocina dining rooms. I've been a more than serious student of Mexican food for more than 20 years, which includes classes with Rick Bayless, Susanna Trilling, Diana Kennedy, Marilyn Tausend, Ricardo Muñoz and more. My understanding and perspective on Mexican cuisine is not necessarily the same as other people, and what I consider authentic is probably not going to dovetail with what others think is authentic.

And then there is, of course, the whole argument about what is authentic I'm actually more forgiving of Mexican food in SD than many other people I know, mostly because I've gotten over the authentic issue. I'm not so worried about something having to be "just like I had in Mexico". What I am looking for is how fresh are the ingredients, how close is the flavor profile of a dish to it's Mexican roots, has an effort been made to use traditional ingredients (i.e. using a fresh chile rather than a canned one for chile rellenos, or cabbage instead of shredded lettuce, or cotija cheese, not yellow shreds), and how much Americanization of the dish has happened. The other things that I really do take into consideration are the American palate, eating habits, customer expectations and business/operational limits put on some things by the SD County Department of Environmental Health.

Cal-Mex and Tex-Mex are both viable cousins of Mexican cuisine and I have no problem with either. Are they authentic Mexican? No, they are a subgroup of a master cuisine. Both, however, can stand on their own as homage the first waves of immigrants who used creativity and ingenuity to take the products available in their new location and craft them into dishes reflecting their homeland and heritage. It's part of the path of transformation and assimilation. I grew up eating Cal-Mex Mexican food and love it. It resembles Mexcian cuisine, especially the cuisine of Jalisco, Sonora, Nyarit and Colima, but it's not the same.

I probably could have used a different pharse than "clearly not authentic" because I actually didn't intend it to be a negative. But, for example, the entree I had was listed on the menu as a taco. It then went on to say the taco was served "enchilada style". Now, I've not been everywhere in Mexico, but I have been a lot of places, and I've never seen a taco labeled as this. Call it what it is, an enchilada. The restaurant has taken liberties with the menu items, the menu descriptions and some of the preparations. This is not necessarily a bad or negative thing; the dishes we had were really quite good and the flavors very close to what I would find in Mexico.

Casa de Madera is in a high rent area, they will need to appeal to a wide range of tastes and an American mindset and palate that equates Mexcian food with traditional Americanized items like tacos, burritos, tamales and nachos. For them to be completely and 100% authentic would be very hard and very costly. I think the other danger is in equating traditional with authentic. Some of the best Mexican food I've had has been alta-cocina and it's no less authentic than a traditional bowl of pozole.

For really good traditional Mexican food that is very close to authentic traditional as you're going to get in San Diego, check out Super Cocina in City Heights at the corner of 37th & University. Then walk down to the next corner and stop in to Fruitilandia for a Mexcian style fruit salad, which is very close, very close to the bionicos I've purchased in local markets.

But everything boils down to what definition of authentic people are using. Okay, sorry, TMI...

[Kouign Aman]

Great answer, thank you!

One reason I asked is because many people appear unaware that Mexican cooking shows strong regional differences. Clearly you are aware of that.

[Swicks]

Interesting read and great point Kouign. I would say its much closer to the regionality of somewhere like Italy than most people would think.

[kalypso]

Great answer, thank you!

One reason I asked is because many people appear unaware that Mexican cooking shows strong regional differences. Clearly you are aware of that.

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I LOVE this restaurant Casa de Madera. I returned there for dinner tonight with 2 friends. It was better than lunch a week ago. They've only been open 3 weeks but even in that 1 week they've made great progress.

They've got an interesting drink menu, heavy on the weird and wacky martini incarnations, but also several iterations of the margarita as well. Plus they have a create you own margarita where you pick your tequila and pick your triple sec/orange liquor to customize your drink. My friend Pat had a Cognac and Tuaca cocktail that was remarkably light and refreshing. I had a Don Fernando reposado shooter with sangrita. The Don Fernando was about as good as it gets, possibly the smoothest tequila I've ever tasted. The sangrita was a purchased mix and far to sweet.

Another friend joined us for dinner. We split a queso appetizer that was so satisfying, not remotely related to either queso fundido or Tex-Mex queso. A nice size round of queso fresco had been warmed through so that it was soft. It was drenched in good olive oil and garnished with crushed Mexican oregano and served with fresh, hot, house made corn tortillas which were about as good as it gets.

All of us ended up ordering seafood. I had camerones and got 5 good sized shrimps (probably U15) that had been perfectly cooked and were definitely not rubbery. They were served with 2 sauces, an excellent tamarind one and a mango sauce that was tasty but just a tad too sweet for me. Pat had a chile relleno stuffed with seafood. The chile was a poblano, not the anaheim that is frequently used, and the sauce served with it light and a good match for the chile. Our friend Phee had the lobster crepes with an ancho chile and pine nut sauce. This dish was a real winner and Phee graciously allowed me to help sop up some of the excess sauce with one of those luscious tortillas. A lot of Mexican cooking is about the sauce, not the center of the plate protein. They are generous with their sauce and with good reason, so far every one of them I've tried has been quite good.

We ordered 2 desserts the arroz con leche and flan. The flan was more like a cheesecake than flan, but it had a nice flavor. The arroz con leche was pretty good but could have used some additional flavor notes from raisins or citrus.

We had questions about the food and our waitress was kind enough to get the chef to come out and talk to us about the dishes. She's very excited to be cooking in San Diego and confirmed that her approach is firmly alta-cocina (I am elated). From what we could gather they're going to do a grand opening in a couple of weeks. Be ahead of the curve on this one. Go now if only for those fabulous corn tortillas.

What's not to like. Wood, leather, good tequila, walls with water running down them and a Diego Rivera mural into which Che, Sub Commandante Marcos, Ceasar Chavez and the UFW have all been, remarkably and seamlessly, inserted. If I lived closer I'd be a regular...

Edited June 19, 2007 by kalypso (log)

[Toliver]

Thanks for the recommendation of Casa de Madera.

You bring up intersting points about "authenticity" which is also currently being discussed in Fat Guy's discussion "Turning the Tables on Asian Restaurants".

[kalypso]

So I made it to Anthology this past week. The owners claim they put $1 million into the acoustics/sound system...and I believe them. The sound was terrific in this small, intimate and oh so sexy and sophisticated (for San Diego) venue. Anthology is in a long, narrow space spread out over 3 stories and smartly decorated with lush fabrics, soft buttery leather and dark wood.

Does the food match up with the decor and sound? For the most part yes, but I definitely have the impression that the kitchen is not yet living up to it's full potential and hasn't quite hit it's stride. Everything we ate was, at worst, good, most of it was very good, and there were a few things that really showed hints of brilliance.

For starters we opted for the Duet of Maytag Blue Cheese Souffles and the Deviled Eggs. Both my dining companion and I are big fans of blue cheese and neither of us were disappointed, the souffles were airy and intensely flavored with the blue cheese.

I ordered the deviled eggs mostly out of curiosity since they are one of those items not frequently seen on upscale menus, but often done incredibly badly by home chefs. So I wanted to see what a couple of high-end chefs would do with them. Well, here we are

3 halves each filled with some finely shredded crab, then topped with creamy yolks. The egg halves were nestled into some shredded greens that had been tossed with a little (Russian or 1,000 Island?) dressing. The pickled bell peppers on the plate were mild, delicious and still crunchy. It would be hard to say which appetizer was the better of the 2 because both were very good, but I'd probably have to give a slight nod in the direction of the blue cheese souffles. The deviled eggs were quite good and a lot of fun, but I think the souffles showed off what the kitchen is capable of a little better.

For mains we went with the prime rib cap steak, medium rare, and the green tea soba noodles with vegetables and a few slices of steak. The cap steak arrived perfectly medium rare and was accompanied by a couple stalks of asparagus and a couple green beans - and I literally mean a couple, as in 2 each - a pile of crisply fried shallots and a small noisette of very dense (too dense) buttermilk mashers and a smidgen of the most amazing corn puree that, yes, made me swoon. Unfortunately, the corn was just a smidgen

The green tea soba noodles were unusual and tasty; the green tea flavor was apparent and did not get lost in mix of things going on in the dish, as I think it easily could have. There was a tempura pepper that was really terrific and some grilled baby bok choy that looked terrific, but which I did not get to taste. 4 nice, meaty slices of steak complimented both the noodles and vegetables. This was a beautifully presented dish with a lot of color and visual interest. Sorry no pictures of the entrees (or desserts for that matter).

And speaking of dessert, we did partake. Portion sizes have been designed to be smaller plates, about three quarters the size of a normal restaurant serving. This leaves room for dessert. I had the donuts filled with tangerine pastry cream and served with a chocolate sabayonne. My friend had the made-to-order tapioca with orange flavor. My friend thought my donuts were too sweet, cloyingly sweet. I did not, and I don't do cloyingly sweet well. The donuts are supposed to be the signature dessert and on the dessert menu they certainly do jump out as the choice to make. But I am here to tell you that tapioca is one of the best things I've tasted in a long time. It's rich, creamy and completely decadent. Served warm with shards of candied orange rind and a buttery cookie it seemed like nothing more than a mixture of luxurious creme anglaise and tapioca. Whatever, if the slight chewiness of tapioca doesn't put you off, this is the dessert to go for. I can guarantee you, grandma's tapioca pudding never looked or tasted like this.

Service was extremely good. It showed that time had been taken to train and educate the entire waitstaff. Our waitress - Erin - was friendly, attentive and able to answer all the questions we had, and we had many, about both the menu and how the Anthology concept works, because, as a supper club with live entertainment, you can't exactly just walk in.

Tickets are required for entry; they may be purchased through ticketmaster or through the Anthology box office. The box office is open the day of the show selling remaining tickets and what they call SRO tickets. SRO doesn't really mean you have to stand, it means you can sit at the first floor bar or have a seat on the 3rd floor. There is beverage and - I think, though I could be wrong here - only appetizer service on the 3rd level. So, I guess that you can just walk-in, but your seating and dining options may be a bit limited.

For dinner service there is the option of a pre fixe dinner package for $65 which does not include beverages, or a la carte service. When I purchased my tickets I passed on the pre fixe dinner package and I'm glad I did. The menu is interesting and, as I found out, turned out to be the better value. 2 cocktails, 1 glass of wine, 1 cup of coffee, 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts and tax came to $129 before tip. The bottom line is that for dinner, drinks and a show it was a little under $100 per person, and no attempt was made to go "budget" for this evening. Our tickets were not the least or the most expensive, our drinks were not the least expensive, nor was any of the food. Not exactly a cheap evening, but for the quality of space, the food and the entertainment it really was a very good value. I left having been well fed and well entertained and plotting my next visit.

[Octaveman]

Thanks for the great reiview. I've been curious about it too and glad someone took one for the team and came out of there well satisfied. BTW, on July 20th, a big band I play with is performing there both at the 7:30 and 9:30 show so it would be a good night to go IMHO if you're on the fence about when to go. Great jazz from probably the best big band in San Diego.

[kalypso]

Thanks for the great reiview.  I've been curious about it too and glad someone took one for the team and came out of there well satisfied.  BTW, on July 20th, a big band I play with is performing there both at the 7:30 and 9:30 show so it would be a good night to go IMHO if you're on the fence about when to go.  Great jazz from probably the best big band in San Diego.

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Drat! I will be in Mexico City on the 20th. My father was a big band musician so as a consequence I have an inordinate fondness for it. I grew up listening to this stuff and a lot of the earlier jazz that is part of the foundation for the entire big band era. I would go in a heartbeat if I were in town.

If you guys aren't impressed with the way the acoustics will make you sound, I'll be very surprised. Let us know how the gig goes and what your impression turn out to be.

[jenc]

Hi everyone! Dropping in from the Toronto, Canada boards to see what's up in San Diego. Will be there next week for the yearly nerdfest of comic-con.

I'll be there with my studio, pimping our stuff. (Let me know if you're going! Stop by and say hi!) I refuse to eat badly every day I'm there. I've apparantly covered fine dining, (Molly/Chive/Modus - I'll eat on my own if I have to!), but only found one quick/fast/near-the-con spot with Tin Fish.

Aside from quickie eateries, I'm looking at later dinners, for about 10 people. We're staying up at 7th and Ash and car-less and welcome reccommendations. That way I can pre-program everything into my phone and can call the day of to make reservations. I hate the crush after the convention closes for the day. We're all tired and every resto is always jammed.

[Toliver]

Hi everyone! Dropping in from the Toronto, Canada boards to see what's up in San Diego. Will be there next week for the yearly nerdfest of comic-con.

I'll be there with my studio, pimping our stuff. (Let me know if you're going! Stop by and say hi!) I refuse to eat badly every day I'm there. I've apparantly covered fine dining, (Molly/Chive/Modus - I'll eat on my own if I have to!), but only found one quick/fast/near-the-con spot with Tin Fish.

Aside from quickie eateries, I'm looking at later dinners, for about 10 people. We're staying up at 7th and Ash and car-less and welcome reccommendations. That way I can pre-program everything into my phone and can call the day of to make reservations. I hate the crush after the convention closes for the day. We're all tired and every resto is always jammed.

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I am sure others will weigh in with suggestions...

You may find better options nearer the Convention Center than you will near your hotel. The Gaslamp District, across the street and closer to the west end of the Convention Center, has oodles of restaurants and bars, ranging from fine dining to casual.

That being said, Google Maps has some options for you. Go to the Maps section on Google.com and enter "restaurant near 7th & Ash, San Diego, CA" and click on "Search Maps". On the left side of the screen there will be a list of dining options near that location with tabs on the map showing the actual locations. Don't see anything good on the first page? Click on the "Next" button at the bottom of the list for page after page of options in that area. Sure, some won't be that close or some may not be the best choice (e.g., Jack-in-the-Box) but at least you will know what's in your area.

You can also narrow your search by replacing "restaurant" with the specific cuisine you're interested in and see if you get any hits.

[jenc]

awesome, I'll try that. All hail the benevolent Google! I love Google, but am afeared by the vast store of information they hold... but that's another thing all together.

[Kouign Aman]

And when you have the geographical info, you can ask here if any of us have opinions on the options. Happy food!

[kalypso]

I've (unfortunately) known this was coming for a couple of months, that it was just a matter of time until all the pieces fell into place...

Asia Vous in Escondido has finally closed for good. . This was some of the best and most interesting food in San Diego County but as they say in the real estate business, location, location, location. Escondido doesn't have the client base to support the kind of restaurant Asia Vous wanted to be, and with the horrid weekday traffic and construction on the I-15 North few in SD were willing to make the drive for dinner.

Hopefully, Riko will find a gig cooking locally, it would be our loss if he doesn't.

[ibjack]

I've (unfortunately) known this was coming for a couple of months, that it was just a matter of time until all the pieces fell into place...

Asia Vous in Escondido has finally closed for good.   .  This was some of the best and most interesting food in San Diego County but as they say in the real estate business, location, location, location. Escondido doesn't have the client base to support the kind of restaurant Asia Vous wanted to be, and with the horrid weekday traffic and construction on the I-15 North few in SD were willing to make the drive for dinner

Hopefully, Riko will find a gig cooking locally, it would be our loss if he doesn't.

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This is unfortunate. Riko is a good friend of mine and I know how much he put into this business. I hope he stays in SD.

Edited August 4, 2007 by ibjack (log)

[Honkman]

I've (unfortunately) known this was coming for a couple of months, that it was just a matter of time until all the pieces fell into place...

Asia Vous in Escondido has finally closed for good.   .  This was some of the best and most interesting food in San Diego County but as they say in the real estate business, location, location, location. Escondido doesn't have the client base to support the kind of restaurant Asia Vous wanted to be, and with the horrid weekday traffic and construction on the I-15 North few in SD were willing to make the drive for dinner

Hopefully, Riko will find a gig cooking locally, it would be our loss if he doesn't.

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This is unfortunate. Riko is a good friend of mine and I know how much he put into this business. I hope he stays in SD.

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Riko will open a restaurant in Kapalua, Maui.

[Kouign Aman]

Has anyone else here eaten at the Wine Sellar and Brasserie (sp?) on Mira Mesa?

Somehow I never think to recommend it when people ask, but the times I've eaten there (6-9 years ago... ) it was a treat.

[FrogPrincesse]

I haven't posted in a while but wanted to report on a series of fantastic meals I had at MODUS. I went there for the first time a few months ago and since then, I've become a regular... Their cocktails are original and delicious and perfect to start a nice evening ("fresh start" is champagne and rose water-based, cool love with gin and rose water, cherry poppin - a Caipirinha type cocktail with fresh cherries; I have yet to try one that I don't love! ), the food is perfectly executed and they have a lot of my favorites on the menu (rack of lamb, short ribs, seared foie gras, foie gras brulee which is fantastic, homemade rillettes, to name a few). Just stay away from the desserts and you'll have a great evening. There is a DJ on weekends and the music is usually pretty good except last time in July.

I've been to Cafe Chloe a couple of times for lunch and love that place as well. The restaurant is very nicely decorated, like a modern French bistro. The food is comfort/bistro food. Service is very friendly. There are toys for kids, and it's a really nice place to have lunch. I highly recommend it. Their mussels with saffron and frites have a nice kick and are great.

I've also been to Chive that I had stopped frequenting a few years ago due to passable meals. I agree with everyone else's opinion - that restaurant is amazing now. I was really impressed and surprised. It was the best meal I've had in a while. The fact that you order small plates is great because you get to try a variety of things on the menu. My favorites were the hamachi crudo and the tea-glazed halibut with coconut froth.

Lastly, an old favorite which has also apparently made some recent improvements. Nine Ten used to be great when it opened, and had become a bit disappointing. I've had a great meal there a couple of months ago. The braised short ribs were great, and the bittersweet chocolate "tart" was small but amazing. I have very high standards for dessert and this one was a winner. It consisted of a couple of squares of bittersweet soft chocolate "tart" served with a jasmine sorbet. I need to have this dessert again!

I am very sad to read that Asia Vous has closed. I've always wanted to try it but never got a chance due to the location that was not convenient for me. The menu always intrigued me and I used to go to Rice at the W when he was the chef there. I've never like the name though... maybe it's because I'm French but it never seemed quite right! Hopefully I will get a chance to try his new place in Hawaii.

[kalypso]

I haven't posted in a while but wanted to report on a series of fantastic meals I had at MODUS.  I went there for the first time a few months ago and since then, I've become a regular... Their cocktails are original and delicious and perfect to start a nice evening ("fresh start" is champagne and rose water-based, cool love with gin and rose water, cherry poppin - a Caipirinha type cocktail with fresh cherries; I have yet to try one that I don't love! ), the food is perfectly executed and they have a lot of my favorites on the menu (rack of lamb, short ribs, seared foie gras, foie gras brulee which is fantastic, homemade rillettes, to name a few).  Just stay away from the desserts and you'll have a great evening.  There is a DJ on weekends and the music is usually pretty good except last time in July.

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Have you noticed any differences at MODUS since Nathan Coulon left as the chef?

[FrogPrincesse]

Have you noticed any differences at MODUS since Nathan Coulon left as the chef?

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I guess not - I had no idea he had left. When did we leave? I last ate there a month ago and it was as delicious as usual.

[kalypso]

Have you noticed any differences at MODUS since Nathan Coulon left as the chef?

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I guess not - I had no idea he had left. When did we leave? I last ate there a month ago and it was as delicious as usual.

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I think he left about 6-8 weeks ago. Heard a rumor he landed at 1500 Ocean at the Del, but don't quote me on that.