tip on top of service charge

[glenn]

First time confronted with this dilemma --- customer included a 25% tip on top of the 18% service charge. The waiters are supposed to make every effort to let the customer know when a service charge is included. It's printed on the menu, but it's easy to miss. Sometimes it's not practical to let the customer(s) know verbally about this. The waiter claimed he didn't know who was paying and the party left before he picked up the check. The service charge was circled, but this could have been done after the fact. The waiter is not the most trustworthy person. No phone number for customer as it was a walkin. I'm inclined to refund the tip. Do any of you restaurateurs have a policy about such things?

Edited May 2, 2003 by glenn (log)

[Basildog]

If you are taking a 18% service charge, how can you accept tips on top? Thats having your cake and eating it too!.You should pick one or the other, and put it boldly on your menu.

[glenn]

Sometimes people wanna leave more than 18%. However, the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to refund the tip; no one leaves a 45% tip. And yes, I agree it should be clearer on the menu.

[Basildog]

Personally, i think you should raise your prices by 18%, loose the service charge, and let people tip what they want.Services charges just piss me off.

[Jinmyo]

Glenn, yes. Refund the tip.

Adrian,

[Basildog]

no one leaves a 45% tip.

got to disagree...i have had a 100% tip ( meal was £50, left £100), and i argued with them , but they insisted.Lone diner aswell.It takes all sorts i guess

Jinmyo.... right back at ya!

[Chef/Writer Spencer]

I believe in karma, in every aspect of your life. This untrustworthy lout should be shaken down for the tip, made to personally call the customer and inquire (in front of management) about the intentions of the extra bump, and/or be dismissed based on the findings. The last thing you need as a restaurateur is a lone gun waitron unit squirreling away undeserved funds from paying customers. There's enough dishonesty going on anyways without dicking the people that are paying your bills. I was a waiter once, and partook of such backhanded behavior on a regular basis--that was back when I was losing my wallet every other day and getting held up at gun point in front of my own abode. Paybacks are a bitch.

And hey, you can PR the fuck out of yourself as an owner if you try to amend a situation like that. Swindlers never win.

[glenn]

Personally, i think you should raise your prices by 18%, loose the service charge, and let people tip what they want.Services charges just piss me off.

Grouch! To open a can of worms (again?), unfortunately the service charge is a necessary evil, at least in NY and in my opinion. I've seen servers get screwed all too often -- sometimes people simply look at the dollar amount of what 18% of a large bill comes out to and decide that's too much money to leave. You also need to consider that large parties linger longer and the table might not get turned. Last, blame the Europeans, every offense intended :)), for not conforming to local customs and often leaving a 10% tip or less.

And yes ma'm Jin, will be done Monday.

Spencer, sounds like a great idea, but there's no phone number for the guy. It just so happens we have a waiter trailing now and we intend to replace "the lout".

[Basildog]

Turning tables sucks aswell

No offence taken, when i have visited the US i have fallen in with the local custom of tipping 15-20%.My point is having a service charge AND taking tips is a can of worms

[Bux]

No phone number for customer as it was a walkin. I'm inclined to refund the tip.

Do you need my credit card number for the refund. I'd return 18% on the belief that the diner intended to leave 25%.

[aliwaks]

I think you can refund with the credit card number ...I am at odds with the service charge, for parties over 6 I add 18% unless during the course of the meal they seem unhappy about anything (esp. service) at which point I tell the server not to add gratuity 'cause I don't want anyone to feel obligated to tip for serviuce they are unhappy with (had that happen where a now former server was ignoring a tbale of six, I eneded up moving them to another table & buying them a bottle of wine so I told him under no circumstances was he to add a tip and I was taking the cost of the wine out of whatever they left him...btw they ended up leaving a 20% tip.

Also have had guests add on top of the service charge I just suppose that they had a wonderful time & wanted to express thier delight also maybe they are on an expense account ( remember those?)

In defense of the service charge there is nothing worse than busting your ass for a large table and ending up with a bad tip..and yes esp. if the guests are foregein ( why is there no spell check on this thing!!!!) had a Russian Party the other day who had us runnning around in circles and (BIG MISTAKE) I gave them the benefit of the doubt and the tipped horrifically

[Holly Moore]

Grouch!  To open a can of worms (again?), unfortunately the service charge is a necessary evil, at least in NY and in my opinion.  I've seen servers get screwed all too often -- sometimes people simply look at the dollar amount of what 18% of a large bill comes out to and decide that's too much money to leave.  You also need to consider that large parties linger longer and the table might not get turned.  Last, blame the Europeans, every offense intended :)), for not conforming to local customs and often leaving a 10% tip or less.".

Consider the worm can opened.

As I understand it, a mandatory service charge is put there to protect the servers from being, horror of all horrors, undertipped. This occasionally happens with large parties for any number of reasons, and it is the resauranteur's responsibility to make sure that the servers (whom he probably pays less than minimum wage) don't get stiffed. So:

1.) It doesn't matter whether the server gives poor service to a large party, he still gets his mandatory 18 percent. Is the purpose of the tip to motivate / bribe the server into giving good service or is it to make up for the very low hourly rate paid the server by the restaurant?

2.) If 18 percent is the proper gratuity, then apply it across the board. Servers earn no more or no less than an 18% tip. Anything over that is refunded or given to charity. Doesn't seem fair that the server shares all of the rewards and none of the risks. This way, no 10% tips, but no 25% tips either.

3.) How would you handle it if at the end of the meal I said I was very dissatisfied with the service and only wanted to leave 10%. How would you handle it if at the end of the meal I said I was delighted with the service and wanted to leave 30%? If the answer in either case is that you would allow me to adjust the tip, then why the rule in the first place?

[glenn]

3.)  How would you handle it if at the end of the meal I said I was very dissatisfied with the service and only wanted to leave 10%.  How would you handle it if at the end of the meal I said I was delighted with the service and wanted to leave 30%?  If the answer in either case is that you would allow me to adjust the tip, then why the rule in the first place?

The answer is yes to both. If the customer had a good reason for not wanting to leave the 18%, i.e., bad service, legitimate or not., if it were my place (and it ain't), I'd agree to 10%. And I go back to my other post to justify a "service charge" - foreigners who do not know the local customs, ignorance in basing the tip on dollars and not percentage and not being able to turn over the tables. Tipping sucks and in a perfect world the 18% or whatever would be built into the prices as Basil said. But that's not reality. The system is set up so that restaurants need to do what they can to ensure the service staff makes a "fair" wage. Blame it on the system.

[Basildog]

Blame it on the system.

You are the system.

[glenn]

Blame it on the system.

You are the system.

hahaha. I think the system is more like Daniel and company; at least they probably have the ability to change it. We'd get laughed out of business, though that's happening anyway :)).

[Basildog]

i would put a huge sign in the window, with something like....

WE WILL BE INCREASING OUR PRICES BY 18% NEXT MONTH.THERE WILL BE NO SERVICE CHARGE, WE WILL BE PAYING OUR WAITING STAFF A REASONABLE WAGE WITH THIS INCREASE.YOUR NIGHT OUT WILL COST THE SAME,BUT OUR WAITERS WILL BE HAPPIER, AND YOU WILL KNOW WHAT YOUR BILL IS GOING TO BE!

It may even be good for buisness, think of the publicity.

[elyse]

I also disagree with the service charge. My tip always reflects service, and I am happy to tip well (25%+) for a smooth meal.

I am curious though, what is done with the service charge when wine is involved.

[glenn]

I am curious though, what is done with the service charge when wine is involved.

I doubt computerized systems differentiate what is ordered (unless they're cutstomized) and the service charge is applied on the entire order.

[elyse]

Isn't that dishonest?

[Chef/Writer Spencer]

Isn't that dishonest?

Elyse, in general, though every restaurant has their own annoying little idiosyncratic policies, the percentage you pay, or should pay is based on your total bill. I'm sure some customers only tip on the food...but here in the states the unspoken rule is the total bill. Wine service, for some waiters, is a nerve wracking thing. For me, I freeze up, choked with premonitions of broken corks, and all eyes on my hands as they shake the cork free. So, I always feel obliged as a customer to consider that.

[elyse]

Sorry, I've always heard the opposite... here in the states. 20% on $1000 of wine? Not at my table. It shouldn't be the customer's problem that the waiter gets nervous.

[tommy]

there have been a few discussions on tipping on wine. i'll try to find them. as one might expect, there are pretty strong feelings on both sides.

here's a bit.

a bit more here.

Edited May 4, 2003 by tommy (log)

[elyse]

Thanks, Tommy.

[Bux]

Blame it on the system.

You are the system.

hahaha. I think the system is more like Daniel and company; at least they probably have the ability to change it. We'd get laughed out of business, though that's happening anyway :)).

For what it's worth I knew someone who opened a house account at Daniel. The first time he used it, he left what he thought was an appropriate tip in cash on the table, only to have a waiter or captain come over to him and tell him that a service charge would be added to his bill and that there was no reason for him to leave a tip. I believe the charge was 20% and I believe it was on the total bill.