Best coffee in town

[Walnuts]

To all the restaurateurs and chefs out there, which supplier do you find has the best coffee other than Illy? For the hotel, I order from Caffe Creme in Little Italy, but I also use Astoria at some of my other places.

[Gary Soup]

Best coffee is tough because the coffee in Montreal is -- generally -- excellent. You really notice this when you go the the States.

Come to San Francisco, specifically North Beach. We're the only part of town with no Starbucks, simply because we displayed a little ATTITUDE about coffee at a couple of public hearings the chain had to go through. The Planning Commission wasn't cowed, but $tarbuck$ got cold feet.

I refuse to drink espresso that's made by a machine that weighs less than I do

[riboflavinjoe]

i admit, tim horton's RARELY lets me down. i can only remember having one or two bad coffees from them. i swear to deity.

[jersey13]

Tim Horton's? Which "deity" do you worship Joe? And to think I was starting to respect you! LOL After all this talk about Illy and Italy, etc, I was almost embarassed to say I like Starbucks!

Edited July 28, 2003 by jersey13 (log)

[riboflavinjoe]

i knew i would be putting myself out on a limb by saying that, but i dont give a damn. the best coffee is at home, and the place i prefer to have coffee outside of home is tims. you can take the illy (as raspoutine says, that's how you say overrated in italian), the allongés, the lattés, and all that jazz, give me the tims. sure, i enjoy a good espresso from café italia, too... but a fresh (every 20 minutes, baby!!!) cup of tims does me a world of good.

[jersey13]

Fair enough. Truthfully, it does the job when I'm headed down the 401. Beats Second Cup. But then again, how hard is that?

[Culatello]

I'm new to this forum , and I'd like to reply to this topic.

Being Italian and also in the restaurant biz. it's important to know your espresso, although we all have our different tastes . My favorite place for (un cafe) is Milano Bar in St.Leonard and Trattoria Gildone in St.Micheal Louie makes

a serious ESPRESSO !!! In Little Italy it's Cafe Zanetti they

use Segafredo. But like I said everyone has there own tastes,some like a lightly toasted bean like Segafredo mild,some like a perfectly toasted bean like Illy,I love Hausbrantd dark ,choclatey & smooth .It's a line that Dr.Illy

had started a while back.

[Tabatha]

In my humble opinion the best coffee is fair trade coffee. I like to take my caffeine with a clear conscience. So far, the only really tasty fair trade I've found in the city is Cafe Rico on Rachel (see above). You're dead on Champignon: a little Kawa in the Pavoni in the morning is sweet lovin'.

Ask yourself tomorrow morning: "Do I know where my coffee came from?"

[carswell]

Gee, I hope he uses real live beans (I actually bought some while I was there, though that doesn't preclude the pod theory).  I would feel a little embarassed if I thought coffee made from pods was that good.  I have to confess, however, that one of the better espressos I have found here in L.A. is at a place that uses an automatic machine (I believe it's a Cimbali) where you only have to press a button and the machine grinds the beans and pulls the shot.  (To some extent, it's a reflection on the poor quality of coffee here in L.A.)  Let me know what you find out about Benelo's coffee.

Yes, I like Sun Ra, but the arkestra is really for Horace Tapscott's Pan African People's Arkestra.  If you haven't heard of him and are into jazz, you should check him out.  See also Jon Jang's Pan Asian People's Arkestra, which incorporates some traditional chinese classical music.  Pretty interesting stuff.

Ari, on Saturday I finally got around to having an espresso at Benelo and am pleased to report that it was first rate: rich, sweet, good crema, long aftertaste. And there wasn't a pod or hermetically sealed envelope in sight; the coffee was ground directly into the portafilter. They special-import the beans, a custom blend, from Italy (don't recall the roaster's name; it started with an R). Their grinder and three-group semi-auto machine are made by Saeco.

Have had no luck finding the Arkestra disks you mention in Montreal, though the jazz rack at Archambault on Berri/Ste-Catherine has a divider with Tapscott's name on it. With unknown (to me) artists, I like to try before I buy, so I guess my initiation will have to wait until I'm next in NYC, DC or Boston. Thanks for the tip, though.

Edited September 15, 2003 by carswell (log)

[arkestra]

Carswell, thanks for the update on Benelo. I am relieved that it turned out they use real beans and that you liked it. Living in the States, I miss the coffee I had there every morning. I hope to have it again soon and to try out some of the other places mentioned on this thread, like Cafe Italia.

As for the Horace Tapscott's Arkestra, his stuff is not always easy to find even in the U.S. If you're interested, you can listen to some samples on Amazon, though not all his albums are listed and the samples are too short. I'd recommend starting with either "Aiee! the Phantom" (relatively tame) or "The Dark Tree, Vols. 1 and 2" (a masterpiece, but the music is more "outside.")

Take care

[onionbreath]

My vote goes to caffe d'Italia because of their long history of serving consistent coffee.

For great coffee info check out coffeegeek.com or whotelattelove.com.

[Culatello]

No offence ,to people who like coffee from cafe Italia ,

but the coffee there is an example of what not to serve as a good espresso .I've been there often ,not because the coffee was good but of the ambiance. People look at the place and makes them think "this place is so Italian the coffee must be good".The coffee is too bitter,too liquidy and it's missing love.

If you want a good Cafe in little Italy go to

Cafe Zanetti on Shamrock

Cafe International on St.Laurent

In the East end go to

Cafe Milano on Jarry & Lacordaire

Tratorria Gildone on St.Micheal & Sauve

And in the West end

Opening soon 48 on Monkland

[carswell]

No offence ,to people who like coffee from cafe Italia ,

but the coffee there is an example of what not to serve as a good espresso .I've been there often ,not because the coffee was good but of the ambiance. People look at the place and makes them think "this place is so Italian the coffee must be good".The coffee is too bitter,too liquidy and it's missing love.

There's no disputing taste. But please don't ascribe motives to others when you, in fact, have no idea what their motives are. To tell the truth, I don't much care for the ambience, such as it is, at Cafe Italia. I go there because of the brew which, by any objective standard, is good: good crema, good aroma, good body and good flavour, to my palate balanced and avoiding the common pitfalls of bitterness and sourness. Have never tried Zanetti's wares, but I'll take an espresso from Italia over one from International any day of the week (plus your clothes don't reek of cigarette smoke like they do after 15 minutes at Cafe Italia).

And if you really want "an example of what not to serve as good espresso," try Starbucks or Second Cup. Their drinks absolutely require milk to be palatable.

And in the West end

Opening soon 48 on Monkland

Hmmm. How do you know what the coffee's like if they haven't opened for business?

Edited October 1, 2003 by carswell (log)

[Kenk]

Cafe Italia has as good a coffee as can be had in Montreal. I have coffees at other places that are comparable and at time even better but slagging it is a bit much. I can believe that it may not be to the taste of some people, or that the coffee was not prepared the way you prefere it but hey!!!

I was there this week and although the coffee in my esprsso might have been a bit long it usually is just right. This is just being picky.

I was at the Bridgehead(coffee chain) in the new Mountain Equipment COOP(next to Krispy Kreme) and noticed they use FRANKE automatic machines. In my experience these machines given good ingredients and set correctly make very good espersso and capuchino. I didn't try the coffee. I had some good tea though. If there are any granola crunching coffee freaks out there that need a espresso/capuchino fix as they buy the latest in MEC fashions, how was the espresso/capuchino.

[champignon]

Cappuccino.

Anyway, I've recently been going to Benelo on Crescent and I've been very pleased. Ask for a cappuccino in an Illy cup or you'll get a gigantic tall glass, perhaps to your taste but not mine. Included is a delicious milk chocalate square, and a very toasty warm space to huddle in. Cafe Italia is all about ambience, not coffee, which I find to be just acceptable. Far better is the coffee at Olive et Gourmando, especially if you avoid peak lunch period. Order a brownie alongside and put yourself into orbit. Also the cafe latte at Reservoir is super, especially when it comes with brunch.

[Culatello]

Dear Carswell sorry for the comment I made about the motives,your right I shouldn't assume that of other people.

But tell me something ,how long have you been drinking espresso, how many different places did you drink espresso

in Montreal ,in how many different regions of Italy did you

drink espresso in, for your palete to avoid the pitfalls of

bitterness & sourness.

And for 48 on monkland

he also is the owner of Trattoria Gildone on St.Micheal

I'm not an expert on espresso but I've drank enough to know a good one when see & taste one.

I'm also not critisizing other peoples taste I'm just giving my

honest opinion and experiance

[identifiler]

Although you'll notice upstream my comments on cafe Italia, who makes a mean espresso. It is true that it is more liquidy and lacks love. I still think the espresso there is "mean" in cafeine content and boost but it is true that it tastes a bit watery some times. I can only explain by the fact that the water used is not filtered and that the bean grinding might be uneven with time. The ambiance, on it's own, does give a boost to the coffee.

If you are lucky to have the mother in charge of the coffee, then it does have a bit more love to it.

[Lesley C]

I'd love to hear what people consider the best restaurant coffee in town? I've had some majorly shitty coffee in restaurants here, save for one I had at Les Caves St-Joseph. The food wasn't great but the coffee was.

[Culatello]

Hi Lesley,

One of the best espresso I had in a resturant was at Le Latini back in 1995 when Moreno had the Illy before everyone else did .

But now I've kind of grown sick of Illy ,I preferer a more robust,chocolaty,rich & smooth like the one at Trattoria Gildone ask

your husband or even John L. they've had it.

[riboflavinjoe]

set correctly make very good espersso and capuchino

Cappuccino.

to-ma-to. to-mah-to.

Krispy KapuCheeno.

yuo knwo, it desont mttaer waht odrer yuo ptu the lettres in, or if yuo missplle, as lnog as yuo udnerstnad waht i am syaing. mmmm.... canneloni.

[Lesley C]

Culatello, I first tasted the coffee at Guildone back in 1996 when I was teaching near by at Pius X. We went there from time to time for lunch, usually chanterelle pasta.

And I agree about the Latini coffee, though I don't think Moreno uses Illy anymore. Ask Moreno about coffee and you'll get a 25 lecture.

[ABG]

And for  48 on monkland

he also is the owner of Trattoria Gildone on St.Micheal

Thank God... Monkland needs more coffee places for the hipster crowd.

[carswell]

But tell me something, how long have you been drinking espresso

More than 30 years now.

how many different places did you drink espresso in Montreal

Haven't been keeping count. 50? 100? (And what does Montreal have to do with it anyway? Throw in other places and we're definitely talking hundreds.) I also grind and brew my own espresso at home.

in how many different regions of Italy did you drink espresso in for your palete to avoid the pitfalls of bitterness & sourness

Only in northern Italy, unfortunately (or not, because from an espresso standpoint I prefer the northern style to the southern). But I don't consider an Italian pilgrimage prerequisite to espresso appreciation any more than I think one has to spend time in France to appreciate French wine or cooking. Coffee, like wine, can be and is judged according to objective criteria. Assuming one is using good beans, bitterness and sourness are symptoms of brew water that is either too hot or too cold respectively. Along with unwarmed cups, stale and/or inferior beans, improperly ground and/or tamped coffee and badly timed pulls, off-temperature water is one of the main reasons so much espresso these days is dreck. And don't get me started on milk-foaming...

[Culatello]

ABG 48 on monkland won't be a coffee place it will be a resturant.

Carswell so I see you have lots and lots of coffee knowledge . Your right about the stale coffee beans but I doubt that to be the case at Cafe Italia since they turn over a lot of coffees and the rotation must follow and about the water not being filtered I also doubt that because they have a water softner attached to the Cimbali , maybe the the grinder but that wouldn't affect the taste I think It's the blend to begin with the fact that she Pre-grinds the coffee and puts it into the wooden box & lets it run to much into the cup (not short enough).Which regions of northern Italy have you been in, and what where the different brands youv'e tried.

Lesley your right Moreno is not using Illy anymore. & he does give his philosophie on espresso and the cups that go with it.

Who would you go to Gildone with Chef Johnson And gang (just kidding)

[onionbreath]

Culatello:

Mali Cafe on St. Laurent sells machines and some private import coffees. They are knowledgable about blends and quality. Their coffees are milder than most espressos because they prefer lighter roasting methods.

I really admire their dedication to coffee but I truly hate the results. What i do like at Cafe d'italia is the real richness of flavour and subtle bitterness. Everyone there pulls a very tight shot. Their big weakness is some of their milk drinks, where they tend to start with a thin allonge.

I have had some horrible restaurant coffees here. I rarely have desserts or coffee at home, so it is a real bummer when some restos with very imaginative desserts DESTROY the experience by serving coffee that would have them killed in a civalized society. Two recent examples of this blemish are Lemeac and Brunoise.

Sending back $3-4 coffees to people who just don't get it is a very aggravating way to end a nite out.

P.S. does anyone sell culatello in Montreal or must I go back to Parma for a fix?