NYC Smoking Ban

[Cheese]

The thriving bar and nightclub scene in (smoke-free) California suggests, however, that the business in NY will eventually fully adjust to the smoking ban.

I can't seem to find it online but I read a news article recently that said Cali's smoking ban has gone un-enforced by police and ignored by many bars.

[Squeat Mungry]

The thriving bar and nightclub scene in (smoke-free) California suggests, however, that the business in NY will eventually fully adjust to the smoking ban.

I can't seem to find it online but I read a news article recently that said Cali's smoking ban has gone un-enforced by police and ignored by many bars.

This was at least partially true for about a year after the ban was enacted, but rigorous enforcement of the ban has pretty much brought everyone around to compliance. With the exception of the sole-proprietor places I mentioned above, it's been quite a while since I've seen anyone light up in a bar during business hours.

[mjr_inthegardens]

The thriving bar and nightclub scene in (smoke-free) California suggests, however, that the business in NY will eventually fully adjust to the smoking ban.

I can't seem to find it online but I read a news article recently that said Cali's smoking ban has gone un-enforced by police and ignored by many bars.

This was at least partially true for about a year after the ban was enacted, but rigorous enforcement of the ban has pretty much brought everyone around to compliance. With the exception of the sole-proprietor places I mentioned above, it's been quite a while since I've seen anyone light up in a bar during business hours.

It becomes a cultural accomodation after a while.

I remember a lot of NYers being weirded out at first and I imagine Californians were in the same boat, but they got used to it and used to not violating it.

I still go to bars where late at night in NYC the law falls by the wayside but the fact is that in NYC you can go into any bar/restaurant during primetime, that is pre-2am and not see a lit cigarette inside.

-mjr

[tommy]

That said, most of the bars I pass on the UWS during drinking hours seem to be packing them in just like they always did.

"drinking hours" are from about 10 am to 4 am in a good portion of the city (the UWS is probably an exception). people aren't staying as long and aren't drinking as much. this, of course, is according to these owners, rather than any completely unscientific analysis based on observation on my part.

i think people *have* suggested that business wouldn't be hurt and people wouldn't lose their businesses. but i don't feel like reading through the thread to find any examples.

Edited April 2, 2004 by tommy (log)

[slkinsey]

Some interesting new data has come up with respect to restaurant and bar smoking bans. This article, which was recently published in the Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine (46(9):887-905, September 2004. Repace, James MSc) and covered in many newspapers (Newsday, for example) had the following to report:

Real-time measurements were made of respirable particle (RSP) air pollution and particulate polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PPAH), in a casino, six bars, and a pool hall before and after a smoking ban. Secondhand smoke contributed 90% to 95% of the RSP air pollution during smoking, and 85% to 95% of the carcinogenic PPAH, greatly exceeding levels of these contaminants encountered on major truck highways and polluted city streets. This air-quality survey demonstrates conclusively that the health of hospitality workers and patrons is endangered by tobacco smoke pollution.

This would seem to put several of the key health-related anti-ban arguments to rest. It was especially interesting to read that air filtration systems can't exchange air fast enough to effectively reduce smoke levels.

I also found this emphatically debunked the argument that smoky bar/restaurant air can't be all that bad compared to normal levels of air pollution in cities like NYC:

Repace found an average level of respirable particles of 231 micrograms, or millionths of a gram, per cubic meter of air in the eight Delaware venues. That's 15 times the 15-microgram U.S. Environmental Protection Agency limit for outdoor air, 49 times the rush-hour average on Interstate 95 in Wilmington and even tops the 199-microgram rush-hour level at Baltimore Harbor Tunnel tollbooths.

The eight venues' average PPAH level was 134 nanograms, or billionths of a gram, per cubic meter -- five times the level in the air outside, which Repace also tested. By comparison, the average rush hour levels of PPAHs on Interstate 95 in Wilmington and in Boston's Roxbury neighborhood, heavily polluted by diesel and truck emissions, were 7 and 18 nanograms, respectively.

Levels of both cancer-causing substances dropped 90 percent or more after the smoking ban in all locations tested, with the air quality in the venues nearly indistinguishable from outside air.

[Stone]

But smoking is still cool.

[Marlene]

Are there still cigar bars and the like? I mean after all, it's damn cold in NY in February I hate smoking on the sidewalk. Ladies don't, after all.

[slkinsey]

There is an exemption, apparently, for places that do a certain percentage of their business selling tobacco products.

[coolranch]

There is an exemption, apparently, for places that do a certain percentage of their business selling tobacco products.

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Circa Tabac is one of those that comes to mind. According to their website, it is one of five. I've also had luck at certain dive bars who just don't care...

CircaTabac

[M.X.Hassett]

There are still a number of places in NYC mostly in Brooklyn that you can still get away with having a smoke. Most nightclubs (at least a year ago) allowed smoking in certain areas

[dan.]

Yeah, not sure the ban still exists after midnight in a good number of bars I frequent.