NYC Smoking Ban

[anil]

One ***, and one ** restaurant in Paris, happily allows cigar smoking - and I doubt that they have designated non-smoking areas.

[mogsob]

Just got back from London where, blissfully, they still smoke everywhere. And I mean, everywhere.

Not for long!

See the thread on the London board for more info on the proposed anti-smoking legislation pending in Parliament.

[hjshorter]

If you crave smoke in public places, you can always move to Europe.

In Spain this was true, at least it was five years ago. Everyone smoked everywhere - it was so pervasive and guilt free that even though I had quit, I smoked on the trip just because we could.

There is a town near us, Friendship Heights, MD, that has considered making it illegal to smoke outdoors, not just in public buildings.

[Bux]

I can testify to the fact that smoking in Spain is far mroe prevalent than in France, at least in fine restaurants in Madrid.

[Jinmyo]

You might want to see the article linked here.

[jeunefilleparis]

If you crave smoke in public places, you can always move to Europe.

In Spain this was true, at least it was five years ago. Everyone smoked everywhere - it was so pervasive and guilt free that even though I had quit, I smoked on the trip just because we could.

There is a town near us, Friendship Heights, MD, that has considered making it illegal to smoke outdoors, not just in public buildings.

when smoking is illegal outdoors, i will take everyone to Ducasse~

I simply dont understand why smokers should have "rights" they act like they arent doing anything remotely harmfull, they are not eating carrots, they are polluting themselves, the air and everyone around them, plus, tastebuds are dying too

I have no sympathy for smokers

[jeunefilleparis]

<<

The Daily News gossip column on Thursday said Princess Caroline of Monaco lit up at the trendy Le Cirque eatery recently. "Nobody had the nerve to tell her to put out her cigarette," one observer told the tabloid.>>>

well of course Royalty can do what they want..............

[Malik]

If you crave smoke in public places, you can always move to Europe.

In Spain this was true, at least it was five years ago. Everyone smoked everywhere - it was so pervasive and guilt free that even though I had quit, I smoked on the trip just because we could.

There is a town near us, Friendship Heights, MD, that has considered making it illegal to smoke outdoors, not just in public buildings.

when smoking is illegal outdoors, i will take everyone to Ducasse~

Cool, when can are we going?

Outdoor smoking law passes.

[jeunefilleparis]

If you crave smoke in public places, you can always move to Europe.

In Spain this was true, at least it was five years ago. Everyone smoked everywhere - it was so pervasive and guilt free that even though I had quit, I smoked on the trip just because we could.

There is a town near us, Friendship Heights, MD, that has considered making it illegal to smoke outdoors, not just in public buildings.

when smoking is illegal outdoors, i will take everyone to Ducasse~

Cool, when can are we going?

Outdoor smoking law passes.

ok, let me rephrase that, when people actually abide by the "20 ft"from door rule,(which leaves me wondering, will they smoke in the middle of the street? ) hehe, then its hi ho hi ho off to Ducasse we go,,,,,,,,,lalalalla

[Basildog]

<<<In recent days, Manhattan's sidewalks have been chock full of huddled smokers taking a break from their revelries. But, it seems the new smoking ban does not apply to everybody.

The Daily News gossip column on Thursday said Princess Caroline of Monaco lit up at the trendy Le Cirque eatery recently. "Nobody had the nerve to tell her to put out her cigarette," one observer told the tabloid.>>>

well of course Royalty can do what they want..............

Princess Caroline doesn't smoke when she comes to my place......but then she never comes to my place But if she did, i would ask here to put it out!

[elyse]

I was out last night for the first time (in what used to be an awfully smoky bar) since the ban, and I must say it was nice to come home clean.

And I know smokers who won't smoke in their car or house either.

[tommy]

I was out last night for the first time (in what used to be an awfully smoky bar) since the ban, and I must say it was nice to come home clean.

And I know smokers who won't smoke in their car or house either.

what bar? (restaurant?)

back to the topic of smokers smoking at home vs. at bars. yes, certainly many smokers don't smoke at home or in their cars. however, i'm having a hard time drawing a direct parallel to smoking at home vs. smoking at a bar. it's not one or the other.

i overheard a waitress telling a customer (yesterday) that they couldn't smoke outside as the place had an awning. i'm not sure how accurate that is, but i'm curious. additionally, at least 2 servers served the table (while smoking) before a 3rd came up about an hour later and laid down "da law." hopefully we'll be seeing some consistency in the rules in the near future, otherwise there might be hard feelings.

[elyse]

Kennedy's on 57th.

Smokers who don't smoke at home don't want to be around the smell of smoke, but have no problems smoking in public where people who DON'T smoke because THEY don't like the smell (or whatever) are. I don't smoke, but used to come home reeking with little choice. My apartment would stink too. By the way, I do think smokers should have smoking bars too.

Edited May 3, 2003 by elyse (log)

[tommy]

My apartment would stink too.

so smokers' homes *do* stink of smoke. there goes that theory.

and, i think people often smoke when (because they're) around other smokers. the fact that there might be nonsmokers around is a red herring.

Edited May 4, 2003 by tommy (log)

[bourdain]

The Scene: Bar "X", a once very busy workingman's bar near Les Halles. For ten years, every morning at 10AM, the bar filled with truck drivers. elevator repairmen, off duty transit workers, electricians.. Every afternoon, 4PM, the post-shift, afterwork rush, Bar two deep with customers, reading their News and Post sports pages, nursing draft beers, Bud Lites, smoking their butts, griping and joking about work.

Now? It's empty. " The law killed us," says the bartender, spotted outside at 4pm, huffing a Parliament in the rain. "It KILLED us...Now we have NO afterwork business at all. Nothing. " I look inside. The bar is empty for the first time in years. As it is, apparently, every day now. The first tangible effect of the "protect the workers" smoking ban? They laid off the single Mom waitress. Hey. At least she won't be breathing sceond hand smoke, right? I'm sure she's grateful.

[Yaacov]

FWIW, i just saw on Ch. 1 that the health inspectors responsible for enforcing the new laws will stop working at 11:00 pm and will only issue violations if they're called out to the establishment.

-yb

[jeunefilleparis]

FWIW, i just saw on Ch. 1 that the health inspectors responsible for enforcing the new laws will stop working at 11:00 pm and will only issue violations if they're called out to the establishment.

-yb

then i guess i ll be busy on the phone post 11

[jeunefilleparis]

The Scene: Bar "X", a once very busy workingman's bar near Les Halles. For ten years, every morning at 10AM, the bar filled with truck drivers. elevator repairmen, off duty transit workers, electricians.. Every afternoon, 4PM, the post-shift, afterwork rush, Bar two deep with customers, reading their News and Post sports pages,  nursing draft beers, Bud Lites, smoking their butts, griping and joking about work.

Now? It's empty.  " The law killed us," says the bartender, spotted outside at 4pm, huffing a Parliament in the rain. "It KILLED us...Now we have NO afterwork business at all. Nothing. " I look inside. The bar is empty for the first time in years. As it is, apparently, every day now. The first tangible effect of the "protect the workers" smoking ban? They laid off the single Mom waitress. Hey. At least she won't be breathing sceond hand smoke, right? I'm sure she's grateful.

well, if our government made men pay child support or people used condoms or didnt have babies when the couldnt afford them, or offered education for people without money , she wouldnt have to have a job as a waitress in the first place,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and now, maybe when she isnt getting chemo for her chemotherapy that she cant afford, since MR BUSH is cutting health care as we speak, she ll be happy.

yeah, some businesses are going to suffer from this law, but in the long run, do you not see a connection between smoking and cancer and the fact that that costs the government and healthcare millions a year........... Maybe there will be smoking bars in the future, I think that wuold be fair to people who like to poison themselves and have no self respect, but I could care less if they have to smoke outside in the street now

[tommy]

yeah, some businesses are going to suffer from this law, but in the long run, do you not see a connection between smoking and cancer and the fact that that costs the government and healthcare millions a year...........

i'm not sure there are any hard facts and numbers on how much second hand smoke is costing the government and healthcare per year. in fact, i know there aren't. i'd be more than happy to read some, though, as i don't like paying for other peoples' hobbies.

Edited May 4, 2003 by tommy (log)

[jeunefilleparis]

yeah, some businesses are going to suffer from this law, but in the long run, do you not see a connection between smoking and cancer and the fact that that costs the government and healthcare millions a year...........

i'm not sure there are any hard facts and numbers on how much second hand smoke is costing the government and healthcare per year. in fact, i know there aren't. i'd be more than happy to read some, thoughm as i don't like paying for other peoples' hobbies.

I dont know exact numbers either, but come on, you dont think that second hand smoke causes cancer? I know a girl who did not smoke and she grew up with both parents smoking, shes in chemo now,,,,,,,,,,its poison, its pretty simple. i dont know why people make it out like they re munching on carrots, its poison,plain and simple. vive le non smoking!

[tommy]

I dont know exact numbers either, but come on, you dont think that second hand smoke causes cancer? I know a girl who did not smoke and she grew up with both parents smoking, shes in chemo now,,,,,,,,,,

i know a hundred people who grew up with smoking parents. none are in chemo.

presenting assumption as fact doesn't advance ones argument, and it's a tactic often used in emotional discussions like this one.

Edited May 4, 2003 by tommy (log)

[malarkey]

Just got back from London where, blissfully, they still smoke everywhere. And I mean, everywhere.

Smokers can also be gleeful about Italy. You encounter smokers the second you step off the plane, standing waiting for your luggage, EVERYWHERE, literally. I think people are WAY too uptight about the smoking thing. I was cringing recently listening to some avid anti-smokers excitedly talking about their plans to visit Italy in the near future. I kept thinking to myself "man, you are NOT going to cope there at ALL". I can't imagine someone coming into a restaurant/bar/anywhere and saying to someone "ick you are smoking go away stop now" The italians will give you that blank look like you are an escapee from the mental ward. And then, of course, ignore you.

The thing that really cracked me up was walking into these super high end fashion stores in Rome (Armani, Versace, etc) and seeing the girls behind the counter smoking away standing next to a rack of fur coats/suits/dresses worth thousands of dollars.

I even heard Rick Steves, that clean cut all american travel guru say that americans need to chill out about the smoking thing, or they won't enjoy Europe at all.

[baruch]

this is obviously a very emotional issue. no 1 n his rt mind could/would defend smoking; however, it does appear somewhat arbitrary 2 pass a "law" proclaiming smoking is longer allowed...

those who do not like smokey bars, should avoid going; solving THEIR problem & quit being so sanctimonious about saving OTHERS. save yourself & let others determine what they prefer.

as 2 costs of dealing with smoke related health - no 1 has yet been able 2 arrive @ any accurate figure. so, i doubt if any1 here is capable of doing what no others professionally have not been able 2 do. the ENTIRE healthcare issue is the MOST heavily debated issue n the USA 2day & nvolves huge questions, which again, NO 1 HAS BEEN ABLE 2 ANSWER; hence the ongoing debates. it strikes me odd that those who argue here, argue/debate n the wrong forum, & typically with little knowledge, but nevertheless "feel" they have the answers!! write/speak 2 your congressional representatives & make them do something nstead increasing the federal deficit. i wonder how much money is wasted with add-ons to necessary bills. if any1 really wants to tackle a serious issue, try that 1 on for size. smokers' rts pale n comparison. & while on the subject, i guess everyone is comfortable with being forced to adhere to our mayor's pet peeves than to addressing the whys of how nyc now all-of-a-sudden has such a HUGE budget deficit. no, every1 here is right - waste your time & energy on this issue than on the bigger picture.

as 2 less biz, early tallies do show less biz, with the most reasonable offered observation being people linger less, or where they used 2 arrive early for their food reservation, have a drink or 2 with smoking; now arrive @ restaurant WITHOUT having those 1-2 drinks beforehand, i.e., less bar biz.

its dreadfully clear, that those who do NOT smoke @ all obviously welcome the ban. those that smoke - OR -n many cases, smoke "socially" do not welcome the ban & spend less time & money n "bars" up 2 this point.

an interesting TEST: allow smoking past 11pm for a 2 week only period & compare revenues pre - vs - post, & the # of people who come out starting @ 11pm. of course, this would never see the lite of day, but nevertheless "may" answer the questions of business lost & whether smokers provide more business. as for the nonsmokers, they would probably be home n bed anyway being as sanctimonious as usual

Edited May 4, 2003 by baruch (log)

[elyse]

The Scene: Bar "X", a once very busy workingman's bar near Les Halles. For ten years, every morning at 10AM, the bar filled with truck drivers. elevator repairmen, off duty transit workers, electricians.. Every afternoon, 4PM, the post-shift, afterwork rush, Bar two deep with customers, reading their News and Post sports pages,  nursing draft beers, Bud Lites, smoking their butts, griping and joking about work.

Now? It's empty.  " The law killed us," says the bartender, spotted outside at 4pm, huffing a Parliament in the rain. "It KILLED us...Now we have NO afterwork business at all. Nothing. " I look inside. The bar is empty for the first time in years. As it is, apparently, every day now. The first tangible effect of the "protect the workers" smoking ban? They laid off the single Mom waitress. Hey. At least she won't be breathing sceond hand smoke, right? I'm sure she's grateful.

I'd like to reiterate my position that there should be both smoking and non smoking bars, and people should choose what type of air they breathe if it's a problem.

That said, I am sorry to hear that these patrons have lost their loyalty to "X." I hate to say it, but were they out for a drink, or to smoke? Ultimately both, but they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's not the woman with the kid's doing, but these smokers are letting the law affect the innocent people in the matter. Where are these people going now? It seems pretty petty to me, that they can't take ten steps outside to keep their favorite bar and single mother in business.

[baruch]

n addition 2 my above comments, pls read 2da's nyt's "letters 2 the editor" - pg A22