NYC Smoking Ban

[Jaymes]

Any noticeable impact (other than clean air)? Restaurants still full? Bars still in business? Coffee shops still dispensing coffee?

Or are all the smokers fleeing into hip and smoky New Jersey?

[Wilfrid]

In the bars I use regularly, smokers are dutifully wandering outside to light up. I smell fresher when I leave. It will be interesting to see whether the law is being followed in less central parts of the city, and whether it will be enforced in the longer term.

The ban went into effect at midnight on Saturday - a time which seemed gear to cause maximum inconvenience. In one of my locals, a neighbour who doesn't even use the bar looked in at 1am, saw someone smoking and called the police. These are people who give non-smokers a bad name.

Edited April 2, 2003 by Wilfrid (log)

[tommy]

In the bars I use regularly...

when the smoke cleared, 27 people (that's ~ 107 teeth for those keeping count) realized that Jimmy's had vaporized along with the smoke. they were left holding only memories and empty mugs...

on another note, it's next to impossible to find matches anymore. i mean, you used to take matches for granted. i bet even non-smokers have matchbooks from various restaurants and bars. one has to think that this tradition might disappear over the next few years, at least in NYC.

[Wilfrid]

Haven't looked in Jimmy's since the deadline. Maybe I'll be able to see the ceiling for the first time.

[tommy]

Haven't looked in Jimmy's since the deadline.  Maybe I'll be able to see the ceiling for the first time.

i'm telling you, it's gone. the smoke was holding the place together. i swear.

only one way to find out i 'spose...

[Craig Camp]

In the bars I use regularly, smokers are dutifully wandering outside to light up.  I smell fresher when I leave.  It will be interesting to see whether the law is being followed in less central parts of the city, and whether it will be enforced in the longer term.

The ban went into effect at midnight on Saturday - a time which seemed gear to cause maximum inconvenience.  In one of my locals, a neighbour who doesn't even use the bar looked in at 1am, saw someone smoking and called the police.  These are people who give non-smokers a bad name.

I hate smoke. However at the moment it might seem the New York City Police Department might have something more important to pay attention to - did they actually show up?

[coolranch]

I was visiting NYC this weekend. I was there until Monday and almost every bar I went to it was business as usual. Since they're not fining/enforcing it until May (?), most places were still letting people fire 'em up.

I imagine it will get more strict over the next couple of weeks.

Actually, we gaged the smoking OK/not OK factor by noticing if any of the staff was smoking.

Granted I was in Hell's Kitchen neighborhood pubs and LES bars most of the weekend.

At restaurants, the ban seemed in full effect: there was always a small group gathered out front puffing away.

Though I was always no more than a party puffer, I did have a few smokey treats over the weekend. I am so bad. breakin'thelaw breakin'thelaw

[anil]

It's a 30 day reprive or a warning period as I gather - By that time places with Sidewalk Cafe license will have options for their patrons.

[Wilfrid]

only one way to find out i 'spose... 

Special mission, and I know just the people to undertake it.

[Liza]

(Smug alcohol swilling bastards ) I'm so jealous.

[rozrapp]

Or are all the smokers fleeing into hip and smoky New Jersey?

If they are, that might not be for too long because state-wide smokefree legislation is currently pending in the NJ State Legislature. And, btw, the NY State smoking bans signed last week by Pataki are much stricter than those in NYC; therefore, they will supercede the NYC laws when they go into effect in a couple of months.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/27/nyregion/27SMOK.html

[Wilfrid]

Spare a thought for the businesses which reconfigured their premises to take account of the City law, but have wasted their money because the State law prohibits even sealed off areas for smokers.

[rozrapp]

Spare a thought for the businesses which reconfigured their premises to take account of the City law, but have wasted their money because the State law prohibits even sealed off areas for smokers.

It's my understanding that if a business invests in making improvements of any kind, the cost is tax deductible. Perhaps that will be the case here.

[tommy]

Spare a thought for the businesses which reconfigured their premises to take account of the City law, but have wasted their money because the State law prohibits even sealed off areas for smokers.

It's my understanding that if a business invests in making improvements of any kind, the cost is tax deductible. Perhaps that will be the case here.

yeah, it would have been tax deductible anyway. but they don't get back the money that they put into a special room that will never be used for its intended purpose.

[Jaymes]

Spare a thought for the businesses which reconfigured their premises to take account of the City law, but have wasted their money because the State law prohibits even sealed off areas for smokers.

It's my understanding that if a business invests in making improvements of any kind, the cost is tax deductible. Perhaps that will be the case here.

yeah, it would have been tax deductible anyway. but they don't get back the money that they put into a special room that will never be used for its intended purpose.

Maybe they could be like in churches - special rooms for people with kids - you know, "cry rooms."

Or for those annoying people shouting into cell phones.

[rozrapp]

Or for those women who wear way too much perfume!

[anil]

This just in - The two places I tend to hang out at - The bartenders have seen a significant drop both in tips and sales. It is still too early to tell.

[glenn]

It's a 30 day reprive or a warning period as I gather - By that time places with Sidewalk Cafe license will have options for their patrons.

True, but you'd have to be crazy to permit smoking just because there's no fine. A warning will ensure that the health dept. will return in the near future along with possibly a full blown inspecition.

As for outdoor cafes being a reprieve, it comes at a heavy price. Our fee will be just under $20k while last year it was $6k. I'm curious to see how many places won't have an outdoor cafe this year as a result of the insane fees.

And between us, I'm enjoying seeing our manager chain smoke outside -- she's never in the restaurant any more, a benefit for everyone, staff and customers.

[tommy]

2 out of the 4 "bars" that i happened upon last night were still allowing smoking. they were playing the "owner operated" card.

halfway through the performance of a decent-to-good band at the mercury lounge, the singer took an unscientific poll of how many prefered the non-smoking law. the overwhelming majority of the 20/30 something trendsetting-in-their-own-mind record label employees attending this particular show seemed to prefer the law. perhaps the results were skewed, however, as the smokers were all outside the front door puffing away and were not available during the poll.

Edited April 4, 2003 by tommy (log)

[glenn]

2 out of the 4 "bars" that happened upon last night

Slow night?

I should also mention the reason for the 1 month reprieve. According to the Restaurant Association, there is a lawsuit (I forget by what group) arguing that the law is illegal. Their basis is that a restaurant has no control whether someone lights up. Frivolous stuff, but it caused the delay in enforcing the law.

[tommy]

Slow night?

I'm just getting started.

[rozrapp]

I should also mention the reason for the 1 month reprieve.  According to the Restaurant Association, there is a lawsuit (I forget by what group) arguing that the law is illegal.  Their basis is that a restaurant has no control whether someone lights up.  Frivolous stuff, but it caused the delay in enforcing the law.

I had not heard anything about this lawsuit being the reason for the one-month "reprieve." But I had understood that the original intention when it came to enforcement was to issue at least one warning, maybe two, before actually levying the first fines.

Glenn, Does the new fee for outdoor dining apply to those restaurants with back gardens, or is it only for those with sidewalk dining?

[glenn]

Roz, I assume the new fee structure applies to any restaurant that needs an outdoor cafe license. I don't know where back gardens fit in the scheme of things, though logically, you'd think they wouldn't need a license. But it seems logic rarely has anything to do with nyc government.

[bpearis]

over the last week...

sophies on e. 5th st -- smoking like the law never happened. no signs up saying you couldn't smoke.

belvue bar on 9th and 40th -- ditto

collins bar on 8th and 45th or so -- signs up that say no smoking, but one or two guys in the back, not at the bar were smoking. but mostly the place stunk of popcorn.

rosie's greenpoint tavern in williamsburg -- previously one of the smokiest bars in the WB, they're enforcing the law. tons of hipsters forced outside in the cold to puff away.

[Pan]

A bar on 11 St. between A and B (I saw no name) was very smoky and without ventilation. I left.