Apple (or pear) pie - questions about improving results

[PetarG]

I have a couple of questions regarding apple pie that I hoped some more experienced members can chime in. I've made an apple pie with the intention of slathering it in salted caramel sauce. The filling and the streusel topping is basically using the technique from Sally's baking addiction recipe for the apple pie bars - the only difference is that the crust is not shortbread, but pie crust. The pictures are shown below, one with and one without caramel sauce (apologies for grainy photo, it is late where I am). I used 3 apples, 2 Granny Smith and one ... uh .. red one (don't know what type).

 

So - after baking and cooling, I've noticed some stuff that irked me, and I got some questions I'd like comments on:

1. The filling felt a bit dry - how would you amend that? I'd like it to be juicier. I coated the apple slices (thinly cut, a few mm thick) in flour and sugar, but they did not sit out for too long. Can I pre-cook the apples, sautee them in some butter, basically making an apple syrup? The day after though, the filling felt a lot better - the apples melded together and mellowed, especially the more acidic Granny Smith.
2. In that case, do I pre-bake the shell more, since the apples are partially cooked?
3. The pie crust - I try to keep the dough cold while rolling it out, but what I get is that the outer wall gets kinda hard and brittle, not flaky. The base is not flaky since it soaks in the apple juices, but I kinda like it. Can the base be flaky even with that much wet filling? I prick it and weigh it down with rice when pre-baking. I just can't seem to get that flaky quality, which is weird since I use the same technique in Galettes and there I get a beautiful flaky crust. Is the geometry to blame? The metal frame?

 

So yeah, a rambly question. I hope I get some insightful comments. Don't get me wrong, the pie is not bad (especially after a day), I would rather it exists than not.

 

[JeanneCake]

Welcome PetarG!

 

An excellent book that goes through the different types of pie crusts (explaining the different results you get with different fats) and an exhaustive list of fruits/amounts of sugar per pie,  is The Pie and Pastry Bible by Rose Levy Beranbaum.    If you are able to get a copy, it will go a long way to furthering your understanding and get you closer to the result you want.  Are you  letting the crust "rest" once it's mixed?  Do you chill the crust? for how long?

 

with the thinly sliced apples, I would suggest using only sugar (I myself use a 2:1 ratio of brown to white granulated sugar) and toss the apples in the sugar and let them sit for about an hour.  This will get them to exude some juices and after you remove the slices to another bowl (or just pour out the juices) you can either reduce the juice in a glass bowl in the microwave if you want to concentrate it or pour the juice over the apples once you put them in the pie shell.  It depends on how much juice there is    You can sprinkle some flour (or arrowroot) on the bottom of the pie crust before you put in the apple slices to help the bottom from getting soggy .  Par baking the crust can't hurt but I haven't done that with apple pies.

 

Are you using the same crust recipe for galettes as you are for the pie?   It's possible you worked it more when making the pie than the galette and that contributed to the pie's crust being "tougher" than the galette.

[PetarG]

Once I mix it, I shape it a bit (not too much, to keep it cold) and throw it into the freezer after wrapping in cling film (2 days this time, I usually make pie or cookie dough in the evening before bed). Then I let it defrost in the fridge for 6 or so hours, and then let it become a bit pliable on room temperature, at which point I roll it between two pieces of parchment paper. The crust breaks a bit at the edges, and if I notice the dough to be too soft I put it into the fridge again.

 

You say that you don't par-bake the crust with apple pie? How long do you bake it then for? How much sugar is needed for the apple slices?

 

Yes, i use the same recipe for the galette as for the pie, and it is possible I worked it more, I do not know how I'd measure the difference. I'll look at how I could ... uh ... "acquire" the book.

 

One difference could also be that I made the galette on the same day as the crust - it was in the fridge for long enough to firm up a bit. Thus, it is possible that when I use pie dough, I do not let it thaw out enough in the fridge, and as a result the surface is warmer than center, which a) makes rolling tougher, necessitating harder rolling which b) melts some butter and develops gluten. What do you think?

Edited January 30 by PetarG (log)

[JeanneCake]

I'd put the dough in the refrigerator to rest overnight before rolling it; if you flatten it to a disk shape you can leave it out (still wrapped) for an hour or so and t then roll it out.  Maybe you need to make more dough so you can roll the circle larger (to fit in the pie tin) than for the galette (I am thinking your galette is smaller than the pie but I could be wrong about this).  You can chill the rolled/shaped pie dough until you are ready to use it, or you can freeze it (well wrapped) so you can have pie whenever the mood strikes.   I usually make two crust apple pies so I make a whole pie and freeze it raw; then I bake it from frozen when I want.  I am  not very precise when I'm  using the sugar mixture; I keep some ready made in a container (1# brown sugar to 8 oz white sugar) and just eyeball the amount based on the apples I have.  I also like to dust the apples with cinnamon.  Usually the raw frozen pies take about an hour or so to bake; if you saute your apple slices and use a par baked crust you won't need as much time in the oven.

 

I work in a bakery and we will make the streusel topping and keep it (unbaked) in the freezer so we have some whenever we need it.

[PetarG]

Yes, that could be it - not enough time for the disc (thickness usually 3 cm) to equilibrate throughout. Seems more forethought is necessary to take it out sooner. I'll see what happens.

[Pete Fred]

Regarding the filling, maybe try making an apple stock with the cores and peelings (as described in this post and pdf). Haven't tried it myself; it's on my to-do list.

[PetarG]

Apple stock?? Stocks can be made with sweet ingredients?? I have much to learn it seems. The link seems to be for subscribers only. No paying necessary though, thanks!

 

EDIT: When I google apple stock I get the goddamn stock market graphs.

EDIT2: Ah, I see the PDF file.

Edited January 30 by PetarG (log)

[AAQuesada]

3 minutes ago, PetarG said:

EDIT: When I google apple stock I get the goddamn stock market graphs.

Try Googleing pectin stock instead 

[PetarG]

2 hours ago, Pete Fred said:

Regarding the filling, maybe try making an apple stock with the cores and peelings (as described in this post and pdf). Haven't tried it myself; it's on my to-do list.

 

I see that this recipe calls for two apple types - one for base and one for flavor. Don't know what a Bramley is, so I take it a Granny Smith could be used for base and some flavorful ones like Honeycrisps for flavor?

[Pete Fred]

23 minutes ago, PetarG said:

 

I see that this recipe calls for two apple types - one for base and one for flavor. Don't know what a Bramley is, so I take it a Granny Smith could be used for base and some flavorful ones like Honeycrisps for flavor?

Bramleys are the most popular cooking apple in the UK. They break down quickly into a fluffy mush with quite a sharp, intense flavour. I’ve never really understood what differentiates a cooking apple from an eating/desert apple, though. Alternatives to the Cox’s would include Gala, Pink Lady or Braeburn, but any decent tasting (good luck with that!) apple you have in your part of the world I’d imagine would be fine. 

[rotuts]

@PetarG

 

as suggested by @JeanneCake

 

Rose Levy Beranbaum's books are excellent.

 

Im not much of a baker , so all I can do is suggest some good books.

 

another book is Bakewise  , by Shirley O. Corriher 

 

BakeWise: The Hows and Whys of Successful Baking with Over 200 Magnificent Recipes Kindle Edition (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

the book emphasizes the effect of variations on the results

 

she also has Cookwise 

 

CookWise: The Secrets of Cooking Revealed Paperback (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

KitchenWise

 

KitchenWise: Essential Food Science for Home Cooks (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

all excellent.

 

 

[Elle Bee]

Count me in as another Rose Levy Beranbaum and Shirley Corriher fan. I have all of Beranbaum's books, as well as Corriher's Bakewise and Cookwise, and all are well used. I'm also a frequent pie and tart baker. My go to crust for regular pies is Julia Child's pâte brisée fine (page 381 in The Way to Cook), made in the food processor. I think the recipe is just a bit skimpy for a double crust pie, plus my family loves the leftover pastry scraps baked with butter, sugar, and cinnamon, so I usually increase the recipe amount by 50% and then everyone is happy.

 

I agree that parbaking a bottom crust can minimize its tendency to get soggy and I do this sometimes with single crust pies. But I confess that while I love a crispy, flaky pie crust, I also actually LIKE the contrasting character of a soggy bottom crust in a fruit pie—and this is one of the main reasons I almost always make my fruit pies with a double crust. Of course now I want one with caramel sauce.

 

But speaking of Rose Beranbaum... here's a terrific article she wrote for Food 52 on concentrating fruit juices for pies. In the microwave. Easy and delicious.