Par cooking chicken wings SV

[KennethT]

I was hoping there were some people  who've had experience making chicken wings in a similar way to what I'm thinking of.  I was looking to make THIS this weekend which is an Indonesian grilled chicken.  Typically, you'd swab the chicken parts or spatch-cocked chicken with some salt and turmeric mixed in a little water and then grill so that the chicken is par cooked (it doesn't really develop any color at this stage but I guess the skin does render a bit of fat and tenderize).  Then, the chicken is swabbed with the spice paste (which, in typical Indonesian fashion, is already precooked) and grilled until the chicken is done which is about the same time that the spice paste gets  a nice char on it.

 

I'm going to be making this for a bunch of people and only have a small, roughly 12x12", grill pan so I imagine I'd have to grill them in batches which would take a long time if I had to do from raw.... so I was thinking I'd parcook the wings SV with the turmeric/salt/water in the bag a few days before and chill until Sunday when I would slather them with the spice paste and grill the rest of the way.

 

Thoughts on this?  Temp/time for the SV step?

[ElsieD]

Not s/v but I have read of boiling the wings for 7 minutes, then patting dry and finish in the oven.  If interested, I can send you the blog link.

[KennethT]

10 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

Not s/v but I have read of boiling the wings for 7 minutes, then patting dry and finish in the oven.  If interested, I can send you the blog link.

hmmm.... that might be better as the boiling water would better render any fat under the skin than SV would...  It seems pretty straightforward - I don't need the blog link.

[Deephaven]

I confit mine before frying or grilling.  Could easily do that.  Basically poach them in oil.

[KennethT]

1 minute ago, Deephaven said:

I confit mine before frying or grilling.  Could easily do that.  Basically poach them in oil.

I did that way back when I first got Modernist Cuisine.  But to tell the truth, I found the wings a bit dry after 24 hours in the bath, but the bones slipped right out.

 

Plus, doing it in oil will create a problem for the spice paste to adhere later, and the spice paste will need some time to char/caramelize to develop the flavor fully.

 

So, with that in mind, if I SV poached them in water/salt/turmeric, what time/temp would you use to not go so far as to debone like in MC (it's a slow/pita process anyway) but still render some of the fat and make the skin tender?

[FeChef]

I use my instant pot to par cook chicken wings before i drop them in the deep fryer or air fryer. 10 min high pressure 10 min natural release.

[Dave the Cook]

I haven't tried grilling afterwards (not because I don't think it's a good idea, but because we didn't have a grill set up), but I've had success with 165°F for an hour, followed by 20 minutes in a really hot (maybe 450°F?) oven. Needless to say, a good plan for drying the wings before grilling/roasting is essential.

 

In case it matters, this was done under the supervision of not-yet Top Chef Richard Blais, after sort of failing at a chicken-wing "confit, which involved giant pots of whole wings and enormous amounts of chicken fat, cooked in a restaurant oven overnight, using only the heat from the oven's pilot light.

[KennethT]

9 minutes ago, FeChef said:

I use my instant pot to par cook chicken wings before i drop them in the deep fryer or air fryer. 10 min high pressure 10 min natural release.

Are you pressure steaming on a rack above the water, or are the wings submerged?

[ElsieD]

10 minutes ago, FeChef said:

I use my instant pot to par cook chicken wings before i drop them in the deep fryer or air fryer. 10 min high pressure 10 min natural release.

Do you put them on a rack or straight into the pot?

[Deephaven]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

I did that way back when I first got Modernist Cuisine.  But to tell the truth, I found the wings a bit dry after 24 hours in the bath, but the bones slipped right out.

 

Plus, doing it in oil will create a problem for the spice paste to adhere later, and the spice paste will need some time to char/caramelize to develop the flavor fully.

 

So, with that in mind, if I SV poached them in water/salt/turmeric, what time/temp would you use to not go so far as to debone like in MC (it's a slow/pita process anyway) but still render some of the fat and make the skin tender?

I only cook them until the meat is done.  Basically barely covering them with oil in a pot, bring to boiling and the instant the wings are cooked stop.  At that point take them out and cool them, season and get ready for grill or refrying.

[FeChef]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

Are you pressure steaming on a rack above the water, or are the wings submerged?

 

2 hours ago, ElsieD said:

Do you put them on a rack or straight into the pot?

1 Cup of water with steaming rack inside.

[scott123]

Two words. Peking Duck. The lower temp drying process they do for Peking Duck is, imo, the secret to super crispy and tender poultry skin with meat that hasn't been overcooked.

My process is always evolving (and probably always will), but right now, I'm closest to the approach @Dave the Cook uses.  I start the wings in the oven at about 200 and then cycle the oven on and off for about an hour, making sure the internal wing temp stays below 135. Obviously, since the wings start at fridge temp, I can give them more heat at the beginning than the end. It's effectively a dry sous vide.  I use an infrared thermometer and make sure the outside doesn't exceed about 140.  The oven is typically off way more than it's on. It's a similar approach to the one I use to proof dough, but a bit warmer. If you make wings enough times, and stick to about the same quantity, you can dial in the drying process so it doesn't require constant attention.

 

After that I'll either deep fry them or bake them in a 500 degree oven.

 

This gives me the crispness that I'm looking for, but, the skin likes to stick to the bone joints, which I'd like to avoid. I also get slightly different results between the wingettes and the drumettes, so I might end up cooking them separately for the final cook.

I've done 200 degree oil for 1 hour, and those were very similar, but, because the wings released so much of their juices, you have to toss the oil on the first 200 degree cook and start with fresh oil for the final fry.  Once you've dialed in the process, an oven achieves the first cook exponentially easier and without the cost of the oil.

Edited August 2, 2023 by scott123 (log)

[&roid]

34 minutes ago, scott123 said:

Two words. Peking Duck. The lower temp drying process they do for Peking Duck is, imo, the secret to super crispy and tender poultry skin with meat that hasn't been overcooked.

My process is always evolving (and probably always will), but right now, I'm closest to the approach @Dave the Cook uses.  I start the wings in the oven at about 200 and then cycle the oven on and off for about an hour, making sure the internal wing temp stays below 135. Obviously, since the wings start at fridge temp, I can give them more heat at the beginning than the end. It's effectively a dry sous vide.  I use an infrared thermometer and make sure the outside doesn't exceed about 140.  The oven is typically off way more than it's on. It's a similar approach to the one I use to proof dough, but a bit warmer. If you make wings enough times, and stick to about the same quantity, you can dial in the drying process so it doesn't require constant attention.

 

After that I'll either deep fry them or bake them in a 500 degree oven.

 

This gives me the crispness that I'm looking for, but, the skin likes to stick to the bone joints, which I'd like to avoid. I also get slightly different results between the wingettes and the drumettes, so I might end up cooking them separately for the final cook.

I've done 200 degree oil for 1 hour, and those were very similar, but, because the wings released so much of their juices, you have to toss the oil on the first 200 degree cook and start with fresh oil for the final fry.  Once you've dialed in the process, an oven achieves the first cook exponentially easier and without the cost of the oil.

Interesting @scott123, I’ve often done the confit method so would like to give this dry process a go. 
 

I’ve got a combustion inc thermometer, am thinking if I can find a reliable enough way of inserting it into a wing I can recreate this process. Might be stretching it a bit with the size of a chicken wing but will give it a go next time. 
 

For those unfamiliar with the CPT, it gives a really accurate of view of internal, surface and ambient temps using eight different sensors in a single probe. 

[scott123]

22 hours ago, &roid said:

Might be stretching it a bit with the size of a chicken wing but will give it a go next time. 

 

Perhaps if the wings are big enough.

 

In my experience with this technique, precision isn't that critical.  A 120 internal temp will get the job done, it will just take a little while longer. And even as high as a 165 internal temp doesn't ruin it. I'm sure that just about everyone's confit process in this thread, including the 200 degree confit that I did, hits 165 internally.

[rotuts]

a current view is that Wings don't get crispy 

 

because of the fat.     this is partially true

 

thus :  par-boil :  an example

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COE96TlsCZ

 

however , par=boiling removes at least some Ck flavour.

 

a long time ago I learned to trim wigs

 

of the extra fat :  its a rope-like area on both the dummies and the flat

 

if you have good trimming skills and a sharp knife

 

works well 

 

sorry I couldn't find a ref w a pic , as its easier to see 

 

than describe .

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by rotuts (log)

[ElsieD]

@KennethT. What did you end up doing?

[KennethT]

Just now, ElsieD said:

@KennethT. What did you end up doing?

I'm in process.  I decided that I would brush the wings with the water/salt/turmeric slurry and then pressure steam.  They're now on a rack in the fridge.  Tomorrow, when it's time to grill, I'll slather with the spice paste and grill from cold which will hopefully give me the developed flavors I'm looking for but will shorten the grill time.  I wound up disregarding a lot of the advice above since these are not really meant to have crispy skin but really, I wanted to par cook just to shorten the grill time so the skin would be tender and render some of the fat which it wouldn't have time for with a shorter grill time.