Opening and operating a retail bakery

[Chris Amirault]

As for a sandwich place, those can be as tough or tougher than a bakery. You're suddenly in competition with everyone from Panera to Taco Bell. All of whom make huge quantities of food in centralized commissaries to distribute to individual locations.

And who make huge quantities of cash money that they will use to try to Rub You Out.

[Edward J]

Eyen...

A while back I was lookng for a new kitchen for my catering biz. I had operated 7 years at the curent location and it was getting too small AND the landlord kept eying and drooling over my cash register. For me, it didn't matter WHERE I located, as I had built up a customer list over the past 7 years. What mattered was that I had the proper infrastructure and a fairly central location, since 99% of my goods were delivered.

When times are good and people want to spend 8-10 bucks on lunch, the coffee/sandwich place makes sense, when times are lean and you can deliver $50.00 sandwich trays, B'fast pastry trays, etc,office catering/wholesale makes sense. If you can get a few restaurants to get cakes and pastries from you on a weekly basis, it makes sense to make the stuff. If you can get 40 or 50 people per day to buy $5.00 loaves of really good bread, then it makes sense to make really good bread.

If you're in the automotive industry, then you know about buying used cars. If you're a competant mechanic, have the time and tools, and a good family car, then you don't think much about buying a "project car" like a '72 Cutlass Supreme. IF you have a bakery and buy used refrigeration SPECIFICALY for say, canned beverages, AND you have an ice machine, then you don't really care that much about the refrigeration.

BUT IF you buy refrigeration to store dairy, perishables, and finished/semi finished products in, then the last thing you want is to come in at 3am only to open the fridge door and find the fan blowing warm air at you, a hundred bucks of iventory to throw out, and to get someone to repair the thing (@$70/hr plus travel time and parts--if they have them.) This goes for freezers and anything mechanical like dishwashers, mixers, bread slicers etc.

Basically, if you buy used refrigeration, sooner or later, you'll become a "reluctant student of refrigeration", and you'll start to cost out how much that 2nd hand p.o.s really cost you.....

[Tri2Cook]

I'm going to switch "don't buy used equipment" to "be cautious if buying used equipment". Using the used car example from above, my grandmother had two cars and she doesn't really drive much anymore. About two years ago, I was on the phone with her and she told me she'd decided to sell one of them. It's nothing exciting, a '95 Ford Taurus, but it had less than 70,000 miles on it, was kept in a garage, had just had the timing belt replaced as preventive maintenance, was immaculately serviced and maintained (with records) as only an elderly lady who really didn't want to be broke down on the side of the road does (you know, if the mechanic says it needs to be done then do it) and she was going to sell it for $1000. I was already thinking it might be nice to have a more comfy, good gas mileage vehicle to supplement my Jeep but didn't want to dive into another car payment at that time so I told her I'd buy it. Two years later I've had to invest $0 into it other than normal maintenance and adding a block heater for the winters we have here. If it fell to pieces tomorrow, I'm still ahead. My point is, if you're determined to give this a shot and the only thing standing in your way is not being able to afford a lot of brand new equipment, a little careful shopping in the used sector can get you some good time-for-your-money equipment to get going with. The way I look at it, if I buy a $2500 piece of used equipment instead of the $9000 new one and it dies within a couple years with a couple hundred dollars of product in it, I still didn't do too bad. By that point, hopefully I'm stable enough to buy the new one if I want to. Is it a bit risky? Yep... but so is doubling your monthly payment to the bank to buy all new equipment for a high-risk business when you don't even have income on it yet. Good used equipment buys more than the equipment, it buys time. Time to have a cash flow and time to see if things aren't going to work out after all and leave you paying for a bunch of new equipment that you don't need and will have to get rid of at a large loss. Then you'll be the person someone like me will be looking for on the used market. Someone with good used equipment that they really need to get rid of.

[Edward J]

Maybe I'm not clear...

A refrigeration guy is $70/hr plus transport time, and if you're lucky he has parts. Costs maybe $400 to have the impellor/pump motor on a d/w replaced, and to have the burners in a gas convecion oven replaced about the same. If you have back-up equipment you can afford to wait for an ideal time for repairs. I am stressing all MECHANICAL equipment here, and yes, Hobarts can have the crap beat out of them too.

The people buying mechanical equipment at auctions and on Craig's list etc., fall under the categories of:

1)People who know where the equipment came from and how it was used.

2)People with mechanical/hvac experience

3)Suckers thinking they're geting a deal

and the biggest ones are:

4)used restaurant equipment dealers, who give said equipment a shave and wipe down it's armpits to re-sell back to suckers who think they're geting a deal

With refrigeration, the biggest problem is the coil. Acidic foods like tomatoes, salad dressings, condiments and especially yeast will corrode the coil in very short time.

Second biggest problem is not enough amperage, and you put stress on the compressor, which fails prematurely.

Third biggest thing with refrigertion is they keep on changing the gasses. Half of the gasses are illegal to obtain

now, so with stuff 5, 7 and 10 years old, you have to convert to a new gas when the unit breaks down.

Fourth biggest problem is when newer refrigeration doesn't get used (place shuts down) the gasses sit in the coil or in the lines and start to corrode and leak. "Been used only 6 mths and then sat around for a year" can be problematic

Since day 1 I have bought used non-mechanical equipment: Prep tables, sinks, d/w tabling, shelving, smallwares, attachments for Hobarts, etc. The logic is simple: Either it's broken or it isn't.

Gas equipment like stoves and broilers are usually a safe bet, and the stuff is very low-tech, so replacing a thermostat or thermo-coupler is dead-nuts simple and painless. Convection ovens usually have the crap beat out of the doors, but many of them are very low tech and it is easy to replace the burners.

Hate deepfryers. Never bought one yet, and never hope to.

Murphy's law will always dictate that equiipment breaks down when you need it the most.

There is no feeling like the one you get walking in to work one morning and seeing a puddle of liquid on the floor and warm air blowing out of a fridge or freezer.

Be warned..........

[Tri2Cook]

All of which is why I said "be cautious". Auctions and craiglist don't fall under being cautious unless you are person #1 and/or #2 on your list. Failing businesses that have been open a year or three that started with new equipment and are trying to send what they can out the back door are excellent places to look. It's not bargain basement stuff but it's frequently good condition stuff at much better than new prices.

[Edward J]

Sigh.......

Look, I just gave a very detailed list on why NOT to buy used refrigeration.

Now, stop and think how I got this information......

[Tri2Cook]

No need to sigh... I'm sure you got your information the same place I got mine, from personal experience. Why are your bad experiences more valid than my good experiences as reference points to base opinions on?

[Edward J]

Fair enough....

My last episode cost me:

Cost of throwing out goods was arund 150 bucks, including labour

About a half an hour mucking out the fridge, time I should have spent prepping

Total cost of repairs was 300 bucks

About 3 hours total making the replacment doughs, mousses, sponges, etc

Figure in maybe 40 bucks for the ingrdients

Figure in maybe 150 bucks for lost sales during this time

[helenjp]

Regarding staff for eat-in/take-out businesses...an eat-in business is a SERVICE business, and service = staff.

I saw a perfect example of this kind of problem last year - a roadside bakery running a cafe in a room off the sales area. The food was better and more interesting by far than most roadside bakehouses...the owners obviously knew what they wanted to create, and weren't afraid to do things their own way.

However, the cafe side of the business was a wreck, and could have easily compromised a customer's impression of the quality of the food and hygiene standards of the bakery. It was a small town, and no doubt staff would be hard to come by...but if customers can't eat what they've paid for, there's a problem!

This particular bakery/cafe stayed in my mind, because the quality of the food was exceptionally good, yet the quality of the eating area and service was beyond bad.

The counter girl offered to heat up our selections, but I said no, because I could see that she was busy with regular lunch customers who wanted to be out of the shop as soon as they possibly could. Customers were already looking mildly irritated because it took her a few short seconds longer to load our items onto plates instead of stuffing them into take-out bags. So already, both cafe and take-out customers' needs were in conflict.

Too many tables had crumbs on them, and chairs were haphazardly pulled out from tables where departing customers had left them. In the end, our drinks simply never arrived...we ate, chatted, and went back to the counter for a refund - our cups were still sitting, empty and untouched, on a tray near the coffee-machine. The bakery staff were frantically re-stocking display case shelves, and the counter girl was too busy ringing up sales to even turn around...customers in the cafe area were simply out of sight and out of mind. I'm sure the owners thought that there were enough staff overall for "somebody" to work the cafe, which may have been true at 10 am, but certainly wasn't true at peak times, and cafe staffing is surely all about peak times!

Also, the cafe looked very much like "somebody" (nobody) was in charge - food businesses need to be more than clean, they need to LOOK clean, which means spotlessly neat and hospitable, as well as "clean enough".

Take-out businesses with customer seating probably regard the seating as a free giveaway, because they presumably sell take-out and eat-in items at the same price, and have only the drinks sales to generate income to cover the additional costs of providing eat-in facilities. I don't know whether businesses find it more profitable to keep seating to a bare-bones minimum ("Well if you INSIST on eating here..."), or to compete with cafes with more profitable items such as an attractive drinks menu, fancy plating for desserts, sides such as soup or salads etc.

[khilde]

I HIGHLY recommend San Francisco Baking Institute. I have taken all of their one-week courses on bread, pastry and viennoiserie over the course of three years. Like you, I started out thinking of opening up a bakery, but after taking several courses and seeing some fellow students open up bakeries, have decided against it. It truly is extremely hard work, and I was personally concerned that I would lose my passion for baking. Instead, I have a very small home-based business where I make various croissants for a couple of the coffee houses here in my home town. It's a great outlet for my passion, but not overwhelming! The teachers at SFBI are all terrific. Also, Michel Suas (the owner) also has a second business (TMB Baking) that sells baking equipment. They are extremely helpful to their students who wish to open up a bakery. They'll sit down and plan it all out with you -- what kind of equipment you'll need, etc. Good luck!!

[eyensweets]

point taken on the refrigeration.

helen.. i pride myself on my staffing process.. currently i have 12 people working under me.. 9 of them are girls in their early twenties.. they may be a bit eccentric and talk too much at times but their work is excellent and i have had 0 complaints from customers and other managers about their work ethic.. begging for food is another matter.. =) i miss a couple of times but i act quickly.. but point taken..

what about farmers markets..?? how helpful are they in getting my name out to the community..?? especially if they are small ones..

Edited January 28, 2010 by eyensweets (log)

[FeChef]

We live on a main street, lots of traffic. Bus stop and right next to a gas station. Our home (we own) is zoned both commercial and residential. The town is actually activly trying to bring more businesses. We are just wanting to cross our T's and dot our I's before we go to the township for approval. (we dont want to look like idiots) My wife has 16 years of bakery experience. She was at one point a Bakery mananger for a retail chain grocery. But we are newbie's when it comes to running our own bakery. Any advice on steps to take before going to the township would be greatly helpful.

[pastrygirl]

You have commercial zoning but do you have a commercial kitchen?  3 compartment sink, grease trap, possibly a hood depending on your oven power and if you're cooking with gas. 

 

The bus stop sounds promising, lots of people would grab a coffee or a bite while waiting.  Is there parking and easy access to/from the main street?

[FeChef]

16 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

You have commercial zoning but do you have a commercial kitchen?  3 compartment sink, grease trap, possibly a hood depending on your oven power and if you're cooking with gas. 

 

The bus stop sounds promising, lots of people would grab a coffee or a bite while waiting.  Is there parking and easy access to/from the main street?

We have not installed any commercial equipment yet. Figured its best to get the "go ahead" before investing in renovation/equipment. And yes the house is setup for gas. There is a huge public parking lot behind the house, and we live right aside a gas station which also has a parking lot (but no parking only signs) which will probably change when we are open for business.

Edited February 9, 2019 by FeChef (log)

[pastrygirl]

Then are you building a separate kitchen or hoping to use your existing?  I’ve had gas stoves in apartments with a tiny home exhaust fan but when you get into commercial ranges you need a commercial hood. Type 1 with fire suppression if you’re doing any deep frying but type 2 should be ok for light duty. (Type 1 is heavy duty to withstand a grease fire). Here, electric ovens 6kw or lower don’t need to be under a hood, but a gas oven might need one or at least a dedicated vent to outside . Check with your health department (to see what is required) and your homeowners insurance (to see what they’ll allow).  And your fire dept & building codes while you’re at it.  And you might need to upgrade gas lines & connections for higher volume. 

[FeChef]

Building a commercial kitchen separate from the rest of the house. I am hoping this won't require a separate gas meter/lines. 

[KennethT]

I would assume it would. Plus, commercial rates differ from residential.

[pastrygirl]

A lot of commercial appliances come with a 3/4" gas connection, though you may be able to find 1/2". 

 

Might be a good idea to keep utilities separate for business purposes