Chocolate Shells Shiny, But Not Releasing From Mold

[wannabechocolatier]

Where have I gone wrong?

 

I heated the chocolate up to about 110F, cooled it down with seed, stirring all the time. There was plenty of seed remaining by the end of this, which I took as a good sign, knowing I didn't blow away all my type 5 seed crystals.

 

I then kept it at around 87F to 89F for a while, taking it on and off bain marie.

 

Poured some of it into a cavity, smacked it while upside down a few times, scraped excess off, and placed the mold upside down in a room with an ambient temperature in the mid 60s F. 

 

I put another mold in the fridge and another one in the freezer. Each of these molds are being used for the first time.

 

The only one that pulled away was the one in the freezer. The one in the fridge needed coaxing with my finger and the one in the room, left alone for an hour plus, needed coaxing to semi release, then needed time in the fridge, and eventually still needed forcing out of the mold.

 

They all had shine good shine, though, so I'm confident the temper was good. The excess chocolate that I cooled on a baking mat also has a hard snap.

 

There might also be something I'm missing there, since I'm pretty new to this. Is there anywhere else I could've gone wrong? How long do you guys generally wait until the chocolate releases, and at what temps?

Edited August 22, 2021 by wannabechocolatier (log)

[Kerry Beal]

What mold are you using?

[wannabechocolatier]

@Kerry Beal

 

Room temp mold: https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=61499

Fridge mold: https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=59601

Freezer mold: https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=3428

Edited August 22, 2021 by wannabechocolatier (log)

[curls]

Are you trying to release chocolate shells (no filling) or shelled, filled, and capped chocolates?

[wannabechocolatier]

6 minutes ago, curls said:

Are you trying to release chocolate shells (no filling) or shelled, filled, and capped chocolates?

 

Empty. Seen plenty of videos of them releasing empty, so don't see why this should be an issue.

 

Also, since it just occurred to me that this would also be relevant, here is the chocolate I was using: https://www.callebaut.com/en-US/chocolate-cocoa-nuts/60-40-38nv/60-40-38

[Kerry Beal]

Those two molds are definitely the kind that are difficult to release at the best of times - but much worse empty. The pyramid mold usually releases fine. 

[wannabechocolatier]

35 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Those two molds are definitely the kind that are difficult to release at the best of times - but much worse empty.

I'll take that into account the next go round. Thanks.

[Jonathan]

I’ll second Kerry, these moulds are the bane of my existence. They look so innocuous and yet are such a pain to demould. I made this batch earlier today and still crushed 3 of them when demoulding but I knew I got the temper right. I think it’s the depth + smoothness

[wannabechocolatier]

10 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I’ll second Kerry, these moulds are the bane of my existence. They look so innocuous and yet are such a pain to demould. I made this batch earlier today and still crushed 3 of them when demoulding but I knew I got the temper right. I think it’s the depth + smoothness

 

Did you force them out with your finger or did you give the mold a tap and just had them fall out?

 

What's the ambient temp you're working at?

 

Did you use the fridge? If so, did you leave them at ambient temp for a bit before that?

 

What temp do you pour the chocolate?

 

Do you think it helps that you coated with cocoa butter first? Maybe it behaves the same way a filled chocolate would, with the white chocolate pulling the set cocoa butter back a little further.

 

Sorry for the interrogation! Just trying to get everything right.

Edited August 22, 2021 by wannabechocolatier (log)

[Jim D.]

I will second what others have said about domes.  They are also the bane of my chocolate existence.  They are beautiful, make decorating with cocoa butter a pleasure, look great after unmolding.  That is, if they unmold.  Following @Kerry Beal's rule, all shells should be refrigerated after they have begun to crystallize at room temp so as to dissipate the "latent heat of crystallization."  When I have filled domes, sealed them, and am ready to unmold them, I leave them in the fridge for a long time, hours even.  This idea (thanks @pastrygirl) has helped a great deal.  Putting them in the freezer for a few minutes is the last resort, but it usually releases the really stubborn ones.  Of course, the "solution" I omitted was to tap them (pound them actually) on the counter--fortunately polycarbonate is very sturdy.

 

Unless I am using a mold that is fairly shallow (demispheres, the so-called quenelles, or flattened domes), I don't have a lot of luck releasing just made empty shells.  Experience suggests getting them out is not a reliable indicator of how they will eventually release after being filled.  When someone like Andrey Dubovik picks empty shells out and shows off the shine of his decoration, he is almost always using a demisphere.

 

So I would recommend getting some demispheres or molds of shapes other than domes.  And for domes, if you can find a mold you like with a design, even a small feature, in the bottom, they will release much better.  I just came across Chocolate World 1016 and ordered a lot of them; in preliminary tests, they released without a hitch.  Same for a "cinnamon bun" design (Cabrellon 6442)--though Cabrellon molds are difficult to find in the U.S.--bonbons just fall out of the mold.  And finally CW 2207--a somewhat flattened dome--is also easier than a non-flattened shape.

 

For a really thorough discussion of the problem of releasing dome molds, you might check out this thread --from 2009, so it's a longstanding issue.  In that discussion, it was Kerry who mentioned the fact that domes are so smooth that they "get kind of a suction effect going."  I think it's always consoling to see that others, even very talented others, have these same issues.

 

Aside from giving domes more time to contract from the sides of the cavities, I have found only two solutions:  always make extras because you will probably lose some of them or find domes with a design in the bottom.

 

[wannabechocolatier]

32 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I will second what others have said about domes.  They are also the bane of my chocolate existence.  They are beautiful, make decorating with cocoa butter a pleasure, look great after unmolding.  That is, if they unmold.  Following @Kerry Beal's rule, all shells should be refrigerated after they have begun to crystallize at room temp so as to dissipate the "latent heat of crystallization."  When I have filled domes, sealed them, and am ready to unmold them, I leave them in the fridge for a long time, hours even.  This idea (thanks @pastrygirl) has helped a great deal.  Putting them in the freezer for a few minutes is the last resort, but it usually releases the really stubborn ones.  Of course, the "solution" I omitted was to tap them (pound them actually) on the counter--fortunately polycarbonate is very sturdy.

 

Unless I am using a mold that is fairly shallow (demispheres, the so-called quenelles, or flattened domes), I don't have a lot of luck releasing just made empty shells.  Experience suggests getting them out is not a reliable indicator of how they will eventually release after being filled.  When someone like Andrey Dubovik picks empty shells out and shows off the shine of his decoration, he is almost always using a demisphere.

 

So I would recommend getting some demispheres or molds of shapes other than domes.  And for domes, if you can find a mold you like with a design, even a small feature, in the bottom, they will release much better.  I just came across Chocolate World 1016 and ordered a lot of them; in preliminary tests, they released without a hitch.  Same for a "cinnamon bun" design (Cabrellon 6442)--though Cabrellon molds are difficult to find in the U.S.--bonbons just fall out of the mold.  And finally CW 2207--a somewhat flattened dome--is also easier than a non-flattened shape.

 

For a really thorough discussion of the problem of releasing dome molds, you might check out this thread --from 2009, so it's a longstanding issue.  In that discussion, it was Kerry who mentioned the fact that domes are so smooth that they "get kind of a suction effect going."  I think it's always consoling to see that others, even very talented others, have these same issues.

 

Aside from giving domes more time to contract from the sides of the cavities, I have found only two solutions:  always make extras because you will probably lose some of them or find domes with a design in the bottom.

 

Fantastic! Thanks for all that info, glad to see this is a common issue. My biggest concern was that I was going terribly wrong somewhere. Thank you for the workaround advice as well.

[pastrygirl]

Oddly enough, I was molding with the CW 2295 today, had a few pieces that looked like they weren't going to release but came out just fine after a few whacks on the marble.  I almost took some pics or video but didn't, otherwise I could show you the stages of release. 

 

There's no real rhyme or reason - I shelled and filled 4 molds of the flavor mentioned above yesterday afternoon, refrigerated overnight and pulled them out and capped them today.  After capping, 2 molds looked mostly released and 2 didn't, so back into the fridge for a while - maybe an hour?  By then the other 2 molds had mostly released except for a couple of pieces here and there.  I got 100% yield on that flavor but had a little CB stickage on a few other flavors that unmolded more easily.  So who knows.  Make extra and don't be in a hurry

[wannabechocolatier]

43 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Oddly enough, I was molding with the CW 2295 today, had a few pieces that looked like they weren't going to release but came out just fine after a few whacks on the marble.  I almost took some pics or video but didn't, otherwise I could show you the stages of release. 

 

There's no real rhyme or reason - I shelled and filled 4 molds of the flavor mentioned above yesterday afternoon, refrigerated overnight and pulled them out and capped them today.  After capping, 2 molds looked mostly released and 2 didn't, so back into the fridge for a while - maybe an hour?  By then the other 2 molds had mostly released except for a couple of pieces here and there.  I got 100% yield on that flavor but had a little CB stickage on a few other flavors that unmolded more easily.  So who knows.  Make extra and don't be in a hurry

Yeah, I think I might need to work on longer timescales. Having to temper over a double boiler twice on two different days for the same batch seems like a hassle, though

Edited August 23, 2021 by wannabechocolatier (log)

[curls]

13 hours ago, wannabechocolatier said:

 

Empty. Seen plenty of videos of them releasing empty, so don't see why this should be an issue.

 

Also, since it just occurred to me that this would also be relevant, here is the chocolate I was using: https://www.callebaut.com/en-US/chocolate-cocoa-nuts/60-40-38nv/60-40-38

Yup, it is an issue.  😆 

[Jonathan]

12 hours ago, wannabechocolatier said:

 

Did you force them out with your finger or did you give the mold a tap and just had them fall out?

 

What's the ambient temp you're working at?

 

Did you use the fridge? If so, did you leave them at ambient temp for a bit before that?

 

What temp do you pour the chocolate?

 

Do you think it helps that you coated with cocoa butter first? Maybe it behaves the same way a filled chocolate would, with the white chocolate pulling the set cocoa butter back a little further.

 

Sorry for the interrogation! Just trying to get everything right.

Yep, I have to coax them out a little

 

Ambient temp here would be around 18-20 at present

 

I use a wine fridge at 12 degrees to crystalize, straight in after moulding

 

White choc I brought up to 29 celcius as working temp

 

I’m honestly not sure, I haven’t gone without cocoa butter for a long time but I don’t think it’s made a huge difference? For what it’s worth they do look like they contract from the mould but it’s a mission to get them to pop out even after filling sometimes

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jonathan (log)

[pastrygirl]

To clarify, I don't normally leave un-capped bonbons in the fridge overnight, that was the last batch of the day, it was almost 80F in the kitchen, and I was late for dinner.  It was surprising that 2 molds still looked un-released after so long.  I made other flavors start to finish both Sat & Sun, out of 18 molds I lost half of one due to cocoa butter sticking and most of another due to dropping it on the floor 🤭

 

When it's above 70F I use the fridge a lot more, in a few months it'll be cool enough to work mostly at room temp (low-mid 60's)

 

You pretty much always have to re-temper for capping, even in a melter the chocolate will thicken over time at working temp.

[Anthony C]

Hi there... my tuppence worth....

 

I use the CW2295 dome molds as well. One other thing to maybe consider is the thickness of the shell. A thin shell will not release easily. Then again no-one wants a really thick shell. For added info, I also use a wine fridge to cool my shells (normally operating at between 11 and 15°C)

 

I often use a dark chocolate with 5 droplets (Cacao Barry - Tanzanie) for molding, and it is so fluid that it sometimes results in shells that are too thin and won't release. A while ago it got to the point where I started to weigh each mold after shelling to ensure there is enough chocolate to contract and release. In a CW2295 mold, I aim for between 90 and 110 grams of chocolate in total for my shells, so each shell is between about 2.8g and 3.5g. Anything less than about 80g total and the release can become difficult/impossible and also some of my bonbons might crack depending on the fillings, as the shells are a bit thin (usually fruit based ones I find.. maybe they expand and crack the shell 🤔). Anything over the 110g and the shells are a bit thick for my liking though this is an individual choice I guess. I find that couvertures with 4 droplets are ideal for obtaining shells of my desired thickness. I still have days where I have to whack the mold to get some bonbons to release, and the occasional one that needs a few minutes in the freezer, but hardly any compared to where I was a year ago 👍

 

I am probably too fussy in my production, with all the weighing etc. I guess it comes from being an analytical chemist in my days before chocolate. Standard procedures, accuracy, precision and all that 😝

[Jim D.]

43 minutes ago, Anthony C said:

I am probably too fussy in my production, with all the weighing etc. I guess it comes from being an analytical chemist in my days before chocolate. Standard procedures, accuracy, precision and all that 😝

 

No such thing as "too fussy" in my book.  Thanks for your insights.  Although I love the "mouth feel" of thin shells, I too had come to realize that shell thickness is important.  But it's very difficult to judge from just looking at the shell.  Frankly I had never thought of weighing it.  If you have one that is too thin (that is, underweight), do you fill the cavities again and do the whole scraping process a second time?

[Anthony C]

7 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

No such thing as "too fussy" in my book.  Thanks for your insights.  Although I love the "mouth feel" of thin shells, I too had come to realize that shell thickness is important.  But it's very difficult to judge from just looking at the shell.  Frankly I had never thought of weighing it.  If you have one that is too thin (that is, underweight), do you fill the cavities again and do the whole scraping process a second time?

 

Yes Jim, I basically shell them twice if they are too thin... but it doesn't happen too often as I have learnt to leave the chocolate in the mold longer for before inverting the mold and emptying the chocolate. The first mold of the day is a bit of guess work... why can't chocolate just behave the same every day 😆

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, Anthony C said:

 

Yes Jim, I basically shell them twice if they are too thin... but it doesn't happen too often as I have learnt to leave the chocolate in the mold longer for before inverting the mold and emptying the chocolate. The first mold of the day is a bit of guess work... why can't chocolate just behave the same every day 😆

 

The issue of overtempered chocolate is relevant here.  If nothing is done to deal with too many crystals, the first shell of the day differs a huge amount from the last one.  Since I started dumping my chocolate into a melter and thus recycling it back into the tempering machine (a Chocovision Delta), I have had more success with keeping the chocolate at more or less the same consistency.  But without a temper meter (very expensive and--as far as I know--quite time-consuming to use), it's still guesswork.

[Anthony C]

10 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

The issue of overtempered chocolate is relevant here.  If nothing is done to deal with too many crystals, the first shell of the day differs a huge amount from the last one.  Since I started dumping my chocolate into a melter and thus recycling it back into the tempering machine (a Chocovision Delta), I have had more success with keeping the chocolate at more or less the same consistency.  But without a temper meter (very expensive and--as far as I know--quite time-consuming to use), it's still guesswork.

You are not wrong there Jim. This is one of the reasons I weigh every mold after I shell it. I can see the masses increasing through my shelling run and reduce the standing time accordingly and also raise the working temperature of the chocolate in my melter slighly as the run progresses and the crystals keep forming. After a couple of hours though I tend to give up and will retemper the chocolate. I think the most molds I shell in one go is about 50 on a good day. Sometimes when I have maybe overtempered the chocolate a bit, I give up after about 15 molds 🙄