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Posted

One way to get the feel for a particular type of chocolate is to melt it out completely. Raise it up to 105F for an hour and you won't have any crystals at all.

Now stir it around, lift up a ladle full and let it pour out and pool. Watch how much it bunches up and how long it takes to settle down flat again. That is as thin as it will ever be, so if you want it that thin or thinner you will need to add cocoa butter and get the feel again.

Now seed it. Use just enough fresh chocolate to get a good temper test. Then repeat the above feel exercise to imprint what "Tempered" feels and looks like for this chocolate. When you notice it acting thicker you will know that you should melt out some of the excess crystals.

Since dark chocolate crystalizes at 94F and you will be holding it around 92F it will continue to thicken over time. That is why you can briefly run it up to 95-96F. Some of the extra crystals will melt out, but it takes time for them to melt and in doing so they will lower the temperature back down.

I like to make the ice water analogy in my classes. Imagine you have ice cubes floating in a water bath at 30F and a room temperature of 25F. Over time the ice will grow and use up the water. Now you can heat up the water to 36F and the ice won't immediatley melt, some of it will melt and lower the temperature back down to 32F. Only if you keep adding more heat for a long time will all the ice melt out. If you stir the water the ice will melt faster than if you just let it sit still.

Tempering isn't as good a term as pre-crystalization because it is about three things: Temperature, Time, and Movement. Just running the water up to 36F and immediately taking the temperature might convince you that all the ice was gone if you couldn't see it and didn't know that it takes time AT temperature to have an effect. That's why so many people are frustrated working with chocolate, they only consider one of the three aspects of crystalization.

Now it's much easier with ice because you can see the crystals, but it's the same with chocolate. Actually to complete the analogy you have to add dirt to the water to make mud. The dirt represents the cocoa solids and the water cocoa butter. The proportion of water to dirt determines how viscous it's going to be when "in temper".

Posted

Thanks. I think I read somewhere about someone using a heating pad to keep the bowl warm. I think my wife has one and I'll have to break it out.

Comparing them to some quality professional chocolates by Theo and John DePaula today, I think I was being a little hard on them. I think I just expected them to be shinier like molded chocolates if they were truly done right. But I think that's just an unrealistic expectation.

Posted
Thanks.  I think I read somewhere about someone using a heating pad to keep the bowl warm.  I think my wife has one and I'll have to break it out.

Comparing them to some quality professional chocolates by Theo and John DePaula today, I think I was being a little hard on them.  I think I just expected them to be shinier like molded chocolates if they were truly done right.  But I think that's just an unrealistic expectation.

Dipped chocolates will be glossy - but not shiny. Shiny is reserved for chocolate that sets up against a shiny surface such as a mold or acetate.

Posted

Sort of a tempering question:

I have some Valrhona Caraibe and Manjari pistoles that are probably 2-3 years old. Some are in a plastic canister that was kept in a freezer and some kept in a pantry in a bag that was rolled shut, but not sealed. Can these still be successfully tempered, or do they go "off" for this purpose? Would it be better to use them for a ganache?

Posted

I just took four days of chocolate classes from a chef who was very adamant about not relying on thermometers, they only tell you what the temperature is, not whether the chocolate is in temper/properly pre-crysatllized. I am motivated to try to wean myself off the thermometer - the two I bought today are for other candy, I swear! You do have to get to know your chocolate, how it looks when it is right, and test very frequently. Having nice half hotel pan melters and a heat gun really helps with the whole program, it gets to be such a bigger pain to keep it in the working zone without proper equipment. I dream of proper equipment... :rolleyes:

Posted

I have to admit I haven't use a thermometer in a long time to temper chocolate. The way I temper my chocolate is just by feeling, smell and appearance I guess. I have noticed when I get used to a certain type of chocolate then I have to relearn all of the above when I switch. I envy people that can actually explain what they do and how, for me I am kinda of a chocolate savage! LOL, things just work for me my way, but I think that may be the way it works for eveybody more or less.

Vanessa

Posted

I reguarly eat Valrhona's Chuao from 2003 -- over 6 years old -- and because it was properly stored it's still quite nice flavor-wise and texture-wise, without bloom.

I picked up the CIA's Chocolates and Confections yesterday and I'm loving all the basic and more advanced information there. I like that they have a "troubleshooting" section where problems are listed with possible causes/solutions. I think most of the CIA books are only decent, but this one seems especially good and I haven't seen a confections book so systematic.

I'm sure it's familiar territory for those of you who are experienced professionals, but I think for the amateur and novice to intermediate professional, it's worth a look.

Grabbed a bunch of cru savage pistoles to play with. Figure if I'm going to practice, I better really enjoy my mistakes.

Posted

I temper by the "it looks good to me" method. I'm probably wrong more often than I think. I rarely make chocolates though and things seem to work out pretty good the majority of the time for what I do with it. One of these days I'll find the time to have someone who knows what they're doing shake their head sadly and tell me to step away from the chocolate. :biggrin:

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

Posted

Since I took Kerry's class a couple of years ago, and also, since I don't make chocolates, but temper almost daily for cookies and other stuff, I do all of my melting in the micro and watch the viscosity. My instant read thermometer just isn't instant enough for my pace and I'm not looking for sheen, just snap, and I get it every time. The few times that I do want sheen, I'm just much more careful about what I'm doing (translation - patient).

Posted

My tempering technique is very standard with chefs. I have it listed below...

Tempering for Dark Chocolate:

1) Melt Chocolate in a bowl over a double boiler to 120 degrees F.

2) Let cool away from heat to 105 F in the same bowl.

3) At 105 F add the seed chocolate.

4) Keep seed chocolate in the melted chocolate until it reaches 89 degrees. Remove any chocolate that has not melted.

5) The chocolate is now tempered.

If you have the chance at any time, go to see chocolate actually tempered by a professional. I actually just taught a class in Salt Lake City this week and I had a lot of questions that I see on this thread. Once you see it done it is a lot easier to accomplish.

Have a great day,

Posted

I use a thermometer, the laser one to check my temp. For years I used the lip test for temperature. I find that by using a thermometer, I am able to get a better shine from my chocolate when moulding. the temperature is critical for a good shine...and there is a difference between tempering and then accurate tempering. I also find if I bring the final temp to the upper range 31-32.5 degrees is where I get the best sheen. Very tricky to do.

  • 3 months later...
Posted

Yesterday I hand seeded a kilo of 100% cacao pate in order to make bars for a client. I have done this many times before. This is the second time I get a strange bloom. It does not look like fat or sugar, but cacao powder- looking. It happens on the places in between the squares of the "big" bar and not at all on the smaller bar (50g) and not on my "temper test". Any ideas? I am very curious what I did wrong or why this happened.

gallery_53591_4944_61331.jpg

same batch same time:

gallery_53591_4944_248299.jpg

temper test:

gallery_53591_4944_24785.jpg

thanks!!

Posted

Lior, are you using a cooling fan in your refrigerator to allow them to set properly (and fast) to avoid what Kerry mentioned - latent heat of crystallization.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

Posted

Hi. The molds are clear but not yellow/ed. They are about 120-130 gram bars-not so big. Since it happened once before I decided to do a half filling wait a minute and then fill the rest of the way-perhaps this caused it! The warmer threw the cooler out of temper... Although it was only a minute or so. I don't have a fan. I usually leave the mold out and when it starts hardening, place in fridge for a short while. The bloom is just like cocoa powder- same color. I don't think the mold is unusually thick and I have used them many times before also for other types of chocolate.

Thanks

Posted

the exothermic reaction untempered your chocolate, put it in the frigde right away and pretty cold (about 4c) put the molds on a precooled sheet and you should be fine....

cheers

t.

toertchen toertchen

patissier chocolatier cafe

cologne, germany

Posted

the heat the chocolate gives off ? Is there a reason why it happens on the big bar, and why with 100% and not other types? Could it be connected to the cocoa butter amount/density? And why on the lines between the squares?

Thanks Schneich and everyone!

Posted

what's most likely occurring is that the 'ribs' of the moulds are much thicker than the rest of your mould. The reason i asked the color is that it helps me understand what it's made out of - the clear or yellow ones can be particularly bad about heat transfer. Because it's thick plastic, it doesn't remove the heat very effectively. When your liquid chocolate cools, it forms crystals. When crystals form, they release heat - it's called the latent heat of crystallization. When this heat is released during crystallization, it is either:

1) transferred to the mould and carried away (thick plastic make this difficult)

2) absorbed by the mass of chocolate - sometimes this works well, other times it causes problems (some of which are very interesting, i'll explain shaling or honeycombing sometime later)

3) is released into the air and carried away (hence the reason for cooling tunnels and airflow (some use fans).

Since you're using chocolate liquor, it's got a much higher fat % than the chocolate you normally use. More fat = more cocoa butter = more crystals = more heat. You can try:

1) different moulds

2) moulding your chocolate in layers (a little bit at a time)

3) cooling your mould a little (this one's awfully tricky to get right)

4) keep your liquor on the slightly undertempered side (hard to measure if you don't have a tempermeter)

Posted

sorry sebastian but cooling the mold is just plain wrong, because your NEVER EVER cool your mold. the opposite is right you have to slightly warm your mold to match the temp of the chocolate!!

molding in layers ?? i have never heard of that technique either...

;-)

t.

toertchen toertchen

patissier chocolatier cafe

cologne, germany

Posted

I understand. Molding in layers is sort of what I did, as I filled one third of the cavity, waited a bit and when it was just hardening filled the rest.

Which molds are better than theclear or yellow ones? Mine is a typical CW one.

A tempermeter sounds very good. Where can I source one-it may be worth the price! I like gadgets...

Also, I did slightly warm my mold-like Scheich suggests-a quick blow with my hair dryer a quick shine up with cotton and then I filled 1/3.

I have ordered the science of chocolate book by Beckett as Minifie is too expensive right now. Perhaps here I can learn about shaling and honeycombing!!

If the mild sits on a frame so that there is airflow underneath-would this be of any benefit?

Thank you both so much- I am so thirsty for chocolate knowledge!!! I can't wait for my book!! :smile:

Posted (edited)
sorry sebastian but cooling the mold is just plain wrong, because your NEVER EVER cool your mold. the opposite is right you have to slightly warm your mold to match the temp of the chocolate!!

molding in layers ?? i have never heard of that technique either...

;-)

t.

Ordinarily, i'd agree with you Sneich. My guess is the vast majority of what you're moulding is, essentially, akin to shell moulding, where your chocolate layer is relatively thin. If you're doing bars, my guess is that they're also relatively thin (ie, < 15 mm?), so in either case, the heat capacity of your chocolate itself is very small. From the photos Lior posted, it appears that the bars are very thick, and from the description of the moulds she using, it also appears that the ribbing is thick - which means that the heat capacity of the chocolate is high and the heat transfer ability of the moulds is low (note we're not talking temperature, we're talking heat, which is a very different thing...). As i noted, it's a tricky approach - frankly it's easier to get new moulds, but that's not always practical or a viable option. I am, however, quite certain it's not 'plain wrong' 8-)

Moulding in layers is often used when solid moulding, say, a very large santa, or easter egg, or (insert large moulded object of your choice here). It's not commonly applied to bar manufacture (in fact, i've never seen it done on a production scale, and i've been in almost every chocolate plant in the world), but there's no reason it can't be an unusual, but practical - solution given what she has to work with. (edit - scratch that - actually i have seen one place do it - they're not doing it for bars, but they are applying the chocolate in layers)

Lior - certainly there can be an advantage to setting the mould on a frame to provide air flow under the mould. will it help in your c ase? it's so hard to troubleshoot over the internet or phone w/o actually being there, but i'd certainly try it! With chocolate, there's really only a few variables that are important - time, temperature, and heat - if you can control those three things, you've got 95% of your issues resolved! You can get a tempermeter from Tricor (company), for about 7000-10,000 USD.

Edited by Sebastian (log)
Posted

Ok, I'm in torsten's camp i.e. I agree with schneich: never cool the bar mold.

Lior, I'll go out on a limb and say that the following will fix your problem:

1) Do not use a heat gun to warm your mold. The risk of "hot spots" is too great and that will definitely de-temper your chocolate. Instead, put the molds in a warming cabinet and heat close to the working temperature of your chocolate, say, ~29C for dark. Check this with an IR thermometer (if you don't have one, get one! :biggrin: ) I do not have a warming cabinet (though I would love to have one...) so I am improvising by using either a spare 6kg Mol d'art melter or (and you're gonna love this...) I use my oven by turning it on its lowest setting briefly; I use my IR thermometer to make sure it's not too hot (say < 50C); I wrap up the molds in tea towels to provide more even insulation on top of a couple of cookie sheets; then I "soak" the molds in the gentle heat for about 30 minutes while I prepare other things. You'll have to play around with your setup to see what works.

2) When you fill your trays, you'll find that the warmed trays REALLY help to prevent bubbles. conversely, cooler trays help to CAUSE bubbles... You can wait until the chocolate has just begun to set around the edges, then put the tray into a refrigerator on top of a grill or shelf that has air flow all around, top and bottom. You can buy an inexpensive computer fan + adapter to hang inside the cooling unit to keep air flowing.

Hope this helps.

John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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