Mustard-forward Chinese dishes

[shain]

Are there any Chinese dishes which are mustard-forward? Ideally a noodle dish or a saucy one. I have some possible flavor combinations that I'd like to play with, and would appreciate having some existing dishes to get some more ideas.

[liuzhou]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:13 PM, shain said:

Are there any Chinese dishes which are mustard-forward? Ideally a noodle dish or a saucy one. I have some possible flavor combinations that I'd like to play with, and would appreciate having some existing dishes to get some more ideas.

 

The only time I've seen mustard used in Chinese cuisine is in the form of leaf mustard. It isn't used as a condiment if that is what you meant. The only mustard I can buy here is Dijon or sometimes  that strange, sweetish, yellow stuff from America - both from the very expensive foreign import store.

Edited February 16, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

@liuzhouI think this is a good entry for the misconceptions about Chinese food thread.  Growing up, when one first sat down at the table in a Chinese restaurant in suburban NYC, they would put down the dish of fried noodles discussed elsewhere, along with the "duck sauce" and "Chinese mustard" which is like a tan/yellow mustard with either horseradish powder mixed in or something like that - it was sinus clearing.  Many people would use the Chinese mustard to season their dishes...

 

Even today, in NYC (not in Chinatown) when I get Chinese takeout/delivery, they include a handful of packetized sauces including soy sauce, "duck sauce" and the Chinese mustard.

Edited February 9, 2021 by KennethT (log)

[liuzhou]

22 minutes ago, KennethT said:

@liuzhouI think this is a good entry for the misconceptions about Chinese food thread.  Growing up, when one first sat down at the table in a Chinese restaurant in suburban NYC, they would put down the dish of fried noodles discussed elsewhere, along with the "duck sauce" and "Chinese mustard" which is like a tan/yellow mustard with either horseradish powder mixed in or something like that - it was sinus clearing.  Many people would use the Chinese mustard to season their dishes...

 

Even today, in NYC (not in Chinatown) when I get Chinese takeout/delivery, they include a handful of packetized sauces including soy sauce, "duck sauce" and the Chinese mustard.

 

 

Thanks for that! I've never heard of it! I can buy fake wasabi (actually horseradish), but again it is seen as 'foreign'.

Edited February 9, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[Eatmywords]

Wait, Ty Ling's not over there?

 

 

 

And I'm not ashamed to admit I enjoy egg rolls dipped in a combo of the duck sc (similar to plum) and the mustard.  Not bad in wonton egg drop soup too.  

[shain]

@liuzhou Thanks! I did mean mustard seeds used as a flavoring for dishes, not as a condiment. When I tried researching a bit for it, I could only find the condiment @KennethT mentioned,d which didn't seem very traditional.

From what I could find, it seems horseradish isn't used much either.

[liuzhou]

Just now, Eatmywords said:

I'm not ashamed to admit I enjoy egg rolls dipped in a combo of the duck sc (similar to plum) and the mustard.  Not bad in wonton egg drop soup too.  

 

No reason why you should feel ashamed. But it isn't Chinese!

[liuzhou]

Just now, shain said:

I did mean mustard seeds used as a flavoring for dishes

 

I've never seen mustard seeds on sale here. I could probably get them online, but again from specialist 'foreign food' vendors.

[liuzhou]

Actually, I just remembered I did once buy mustard seeds online - imported from India!

 

[Eatmywords]

15 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

No reason why you should feel ashamed. But it isn't Chinese!

 

So this isn't accurate? - https://www.thespruceeats.com/about-chinese-hot-mustard-695079

 

"Many Chinese appetizers are accompanied by Chinese hot mustard, a condiment that will provide a real bite. You'll definitely feel the sinus-clearing heat with just a touch of this potent spice. You'll find this mustard served at Chinese restaurants both in the U.S., China, and Taiwan".

 

"Mustard has been grown in China for thousands of years, with the brown mustard seed plant (Brassica juncea) being native to the Himalayas. The first use of mustard powder and prepared mustard in China is not recorded".

 

 

[shain]

I managed to find one dish that makes use of mustard - http://news.cnwest.com/sxxw/a/2021/01/31/19473314.html - Shaanxi cold buckwheat noodles with mustard and sesame paste. 

[liuzhou]

 

 

12 hours ago, Eatmywords said:

So this isn't accurate?

 

All  I can  say is that in 25 years of living in and travelling all over China, I have never come across mustard sauce as a condiment. I can't say there is isn't a restaurant somewhere dishing it up.

 

Not one of my local supermarkets (or any other supermarket I've seen) has mustard on its shelves.

 

I just did a quick search of the largest online shopping site and there is nothing Chinese. Dijon, American and Wasabi-type stuff as I mentioned.

P.S. I've never seen mustard served in Chinese restaurants in Europe, either. It seems to be American.

Edited February 10, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

13 minutes ago, shain said:

I managed to find one dish that makes use of mustard - http://news.cnwest.com/sxxw/a/2021/01/31/19473314.html - Shaanxi cold buckwheat noodles with mustard and sesame paste. 

 

Hmmm.

 

It isn't clear in that article what the recipe is using. It simply says 'mustard' (or maybe 'horseradish' - the Chinese for either is the same). Is it seeds? paste? greens?

Certanly, I never came across it when I lived in Xi'an 20+ years ago, but then I never sampled everything!

 

[shain]

9 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Hmmm.

 

It isn't clear in that article what the recipe is using. It simply says 'mustard' (or maybe 'horseradish' - the Chinese for either is the same). Is it seeds? paste? greens?

Certanly, I never came across it when I lived in Xi'an 20+ years ago, but then I never sampled everything!

 

 

Those two pages seem to refer to the same dish and use mustard seeds:

 

https://lightorangebean.com/mustard-paste-buckwheat-noodle-salad/

https://home.meishichina.com/recipe-200467.html

 

It seems pretty similar to what i had in mind - garlic, mustard, sesame paste, vinegar over noodles.  I didn't plan on using soba, but can't see a reason not to, I also planned to include a bit of sugar, soy sauce and green chilies.

[liuzhou]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:45 PM, shain said:

Those two pages seem to refer to the same dish and use mustard seeds:

 

https://lightorangebean.com/mustard-paste-buckwheat-noodle-salad/

https://home.meishichina.com/recipe-200467.html

 

Actually, the recipes use mustard paste (which is made from seeds). The second link suggests using mustard oil, if you don't have mustard paste. It doesn't mention making it from seeds. I've only seen mustard oil once here - in that now famous 'foreign food' store!

 

Any way, I look forward to reading your impressions when you make it. I'm not keen on buckwheat noodles or I'd give it a go myself (if I could find the mustard!)

Edited February 16, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[Eatmywords]

Googling around there's not much as a recipe ingredient.  It's purpose appears to be as a condiment.  If its true that it was cultivated here, it should rank high on the 'American bastardization of Chinese food' chart.  

[blue_dolphin]

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

@liuzhouI think this is a good entry for the misconceptions about Chinese food thread.  Growing up, when one first sat down at the table in a Chinese restaurant in suburban NYC, they would put down the dish of fried noodles discussed elsewhere, along with the "duck sauce" and "Chinese mustard" which is like a tan/yellow mustard with either horseradish powder mixed in or something like that - it was sinus clearing.  Many people would use the Chinese mustard to season their dishes...

 

Even today, in NYC (not in Chinatown) when I get Chinese takeout/delivery, they include a handful of packetized sauces including soy sauce, "duck sauce" and the Chinese mustard.

 

Yes, that mustard as a condiment is pretty ubiquitous in Cantonese-style restaurants in this area as well. 

 

Back to @shain's question, Irene Kuo's The Key to Chinese Cooking (eG-friendly Amazon.com link), sadly out of print, has a recipe that uses mustard - the prepared paste made from mustard powder - as part of a sauce for shrimp, with a variation listed for chicken.  She says it can be served hot or cold.

 

From @liuzhou, we know this is not Chinese, but if you'd like the rest of the recipe, let me know and I will PM it to you.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by blue_dolphin (log)

[shain]

20 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Actually, the recipes use mustard paste (which is made from seeds). The second link suggests using mustard oil, if you don't have mustard paste. It doesn't mention making it from seeds. I've only seen mustard oil once here - in that now famous 'foreign food' store!

 

Any way, I look forward to reading your impressions when you make it. I'm not keen on buckwheat noodles or I'd give it a ago myself (if I could find the mustard!)

 

One of the links above starts with brown mustard seeds. I'm pretty sure it will work with any noodle - so you can give it a try if you'd like I might not get to it in a while, since the current weather is not one which get me carving cold noodles, but I'll surely share when I do.

 

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

Thanks for that!

I am astounded. I had just assumed that Chinese mustard was a thing even in China.😂 if I was inclined to look I’m positive I would find some in my house right now. 

 

 

[shain]

@blue_dolphin Sounds nice and simple. I guess the sherry is there to sub for rice wine.

[blue_dolphin]

3 minutes ago, shain said:

@blue_dolphin Sounds nice and simple. I guess the sherry is there to sub for rice wine.

I suspect so. 

Found a link to the chicken version of the recipe. 

[liuzhou]

8 minutes ago, shain said:

@blue_dolphin Sounds nice and simple. I guess the sherry is there to sub for rice wine.

 

Sherry is often listed as a sub for rice wine - especially in older cookbooks. I've never been convinced how close they are, but then I have easy access to the real thing.

[weinoo]

25 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Sherry is often listed as a sub for rice wine - especially in older cookbooks. I've never been convinced how close they are, but then I have easy access to the real thing.

 

Indeed - and pale dry sherry at that. Like in Irene Kuo's. Some sweeter sherries may also be suggested as a sub for mirin.

 

48 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

Irene Kuo's The Key to Chinese Cooking (eG-friendly Amazon.com link), sadly out of print, has a recipe that uses mustard - the prepared paste made from mustard powder

 

Funny - I was just referring to that book the other day. My first edition long gone and replaced...it was a seminal book for cooking Chinese food in America.

 

 

 

 

 

[liuzhou]

11 hours ago, weinoo said:

it was a seminal book for cooking Chinese food in America.

 

or for cooking Chinese-American food?

Edited February 10, 2021 by liuzhou (log)

[blue_dolphin]

7 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

or for cooking Chinese-American food?

 

Your opinion, perhaps, but not mine.  It's written in English and for the American market but it's about Chinese food.

A more about the book: How America Lost 'The Key to Chinese Cooking'

My bible when I was learning to cook Chinese food in the early '80's, along with inspiration and shopping assistance from my Chinese colleagues.  They generally approved of the book but thought it was unnecessarily detailed - too many words!