Bread Served in Restaurants

[menton1]

As per Tommy's suggestion, I think this is a topic worthy of the General Topics board. We had some discussion in NJ becuase of a recent experience at a New Jersey restaurant.

This is a place that is touted as one of the "better" restaurants in the state. They brought us bread tightly wrapped in a linen cloth-- but upon unwrapping, the bread was "cold" (Room temperature). (Why was it wrapped up?) When I asked for the bread to be heated, they were somewhat nonplussed and we never got the bread back for 15 minutes, and had to ask twice more for it!!

Some contend that heating dries out the bread, which has never been my experience, especially if heated properly, as in a warming oven. This bread situation actually put a damper on this restaurant experience.

My feeling is that good bread always tastes better warmed, and should ALWAYS be served that way at a "finer" restaurant. Comments?

[Suzanne F]

Oh, Tommy's just an instigator. But it IS a good question.

Some places do indeed have a temperature-and-humidity controlled warming drawer built into the waiters' stations, where the bread is kept. This should ensure that the bread is warm but not dried out.

Wrapping "cold" bread may be done for a "classier" presentation, to keep it from drying out (although it still will, if it sits around much), or to fool the customer into thinking that it will be warm. Useless pretense, IMO.

I agree that warm bread is more appetizing, especially when the butter (if served) is cold. And you're also right about a mediocre bread experience detracting from the meal. My preference for first-class service, though, is for a bread server circling through the room with a wrapped tray of warm bread. That way there's no basket to take up room on the table.

Edited January 27, 2003 by Suzanne F (log)

[claire797]

I've always considered myself somewhat of a bread snob, but I'm not going to take off points for bread served room temperature so long as it's good. Sure. A warm loaf gets extra points, but a basket of very delicious bread served at room temperature is fine with me.

My biggest pet peeve is when I have to ask the waiter to please bring the bread or worse, when the bread shows up with the entree.

[Holly Moore]

Depending on the bread, room temperature is fine by me, though I have fond memories of the restaurants of yore that used to serve popovers fresh from the oven. Haven't seen that for years and years.

What elevates my dander is rock hard cold butter - butter that tears at the bread as one tries to spread it. Never ever a need for that to happen, but it does in all level of restaurants.

[macrosan]

My own preference is for cold bread, for three reasons.

First, I dislike the butter melting when it's spread. )A fine restaurant will not serve rock-hard butter, they will serve it at proper spreading temperature).

Second, I have never thought of bread as a warm item of food I'll eat toast warm, but somehow I've always thought of bread as something to be served cold. I love the smell of hot bread straight from the baker's oven, but that's for the nose, not for the taste-buds

Third, I find I prefer the taste of good bread when it's cold. I think the practise of warming bread in restaurants was to help overcome the likelihood of it being stale, but I think it makes bread taste more bland.

As a matter of interest, now I think about it, I feel that most good restaurants seem to serve bread (and rolls) cold.

[tommy]

i'm wondering how many home cooks serve bread before a meal, and if they do, if it's warm. the whole bread-before-ordering thing seems a bit dated. if i want a great bread experience, i'll go to a great bakery. i don't necessarily need it before my braised short ribs or foie gras.

[JAZ]

Warm or room temp is okay with me, but as long as we're on bread-related pet peeves, I don't understand the trend to present the table with a length of baguette or batard, sliced only three-quarters of the way through but leaving the bottom quarter, which, of course, includes the particularly recalcitrant bottom crust, intact. It leaves the diners no option but to tear off pieces, mangling the entire chunk of bread in the process.

[menton1]

i'm wondering how many home cooks serve bread before a meal, and if they do, if it's warm.  the whole bread-before-ordering thing seems a bit dated.  if i want a great bread experience, i'll go to a great bakery.  i don't necessarily need it before my braised short ribs or foie gras.

I don't agree; the main dish is the star, but the supporting cast should be of a top standard as well-- a great main dish could be spoiled by overcooked side vegetables, tasteless appetizers, and bad bread. It always adds to my dining pleasures when the bread is top notch AND warm!! It is one of the elements to a great meal.

[tommy]

i'm wondering how many home cooks serve bread before a meal, and if they do, if it's warm.  the whole bread-before-ordering thing seems a bit dated.  if i want a great bread experience, i'll go to a great bakery.  i don't necessarily need it before my braised short ribs or foie gras.

I don't agree; the main dish is the star, but the supporting cast should be of a top standard as well-- a great main dish could be spoiled by overcooked side vegetables, tasteless appetizers, and bad bread. It always adds to my dining pleasures when the bread is top notch AND warm!! It is one of the elements to a great meal.

i was saying that i don't see a reason for bread to begin with. obviously if it's going to be served it should be good. was the bread at the restaurant in question good, aside from not being at the temperature that you prefer?

[menton1]

i was saying that i don't see a reason for bread to begin with. obviously if it's going to be served it should be good. was the bread at the restaurant in question good, aside from not being at the temperature that you prefer?

[Bux]

Macrosan is correct. His preference is for cold bread. Actually I suspect it is for room temperature bread and I join him in that preference. If I were the sort to decide what's correct for others, I'd say that's the right way to serve bread.

First I'd say that a lot of restaurants serve warmed bread to make it appear fresher, i.e. straight from the oven, to a segment of their audience. A lot of other restaurants serve the bread rewarmed precisely becuase it's stale. Somehow enough diners have begun to see that as a service and now expect, desire, or demand warm bread.

I don't believe I've ever been served warm bread in France and can't recall being served warm bread in a top restaurant in France. Warm bread has not been a part of fine dining. The exception is toast served with foie gras or pate, or a hot dish such as saucisson en brioche.

It may be that some American breads do take well to being reheated and served warm. That would just widen the gulf between those whose palates and preferences are honed in France and those who dine in most parts of the states. I've seen any number of customs and preferences vary from locale to locale.

In repsonse to other posts on the thread, butter should not be too cold to spread easily on a cold slice of bread. Bread isn't sliced until it's sliced all the way. I don't get that one either.

[Bux]

Menton, in France where bread with meals is perhaps more important than it is in the US, do you recall being served warm bread?

[Suzanne F]

i was saying that i don't see a reason for bread to begin with.

But Tommy, isn't it a bit gauche to lick the plate in a fancy restaurant? Especially if one has a beard.

[menton1]

Menton, in France where bread with meals is perhaps more important than it is in the US, do you recall being served warm bread?

Bux, I have thought about that issue but did not mention it, because we expect different things in an American restaurant. No, the bread is never served warm in France, and never served with butter. Restaurant bread in France is usually quite unremarkable, something like a "vin du table". But in France, is is normal to spend 2- 2 1/2 hours dining, with long waits between courses, as you "savor" the dining experience. If an American restaurant took 25 minutes from the time you finished an appetizer until the main course, American diners would be pounding their fists on the table. I just can't compare dining in the US with dining in France, it is such a different experience. (Wish I could be on tonight's flight to Nice!!)

[tommy]

the behavior of the restaurant staff was inexcusable-- they "punished" me for asking to have the bread heated, not bringing it back for 15 minutes

i have a hard time believing that.

Bread at the table is an American custom, and we expect it to be served-- it is part of American restaurant culture.

is it really? i could do with out it. i don't expect it to be served, especially at home. whether it should or shouldn't be served, however, doesn't seem to be the issue here. it's more of a matter of personal preference regarding the temperature of the bread. i'm guessing that there aren't many people at that restaurant who complain about the bread, or else they'd change their policy.

[menton1]

the behavior of the restaurant staff was inexcusable-- they "punished" me for asking to have the bread heated, not bringing it back for 15 minutes

i have a hard time believing that.

Well, that is EXACTLY what happened, no exaggeration either.

[claire797]

Menton, I don't think they were punishing you. They probably had to throw the bread back in the oven to warm it properly and then got busy with other things. Bad excuse, but I think the bread "course" would be way too early in the meal for the waiter to start punishing you. They usually don't start punishment until they've figured out that 1) the customer is a jerk whose patronage they could do without and 2) they're not going to get a good tip anyway. So I doubt you were punished.

As for bread, what I REALLY like is when they bring a basket of assorted rolls -- a little focaccia, a slice of French.....maybe something with rye.

[tommy]

Well, that is EXACTLY what happened, no exaggeration either.

so you were able to look into the mind of the server to see that he/she was punishing you. brilliant.

[menton1]

Well, that is EXACTLY what happened, no exaggeration either.

so you were able to look into the mind of the server to see that he/she was punishing you. brilliant.

When I put "punished" in quotes, I was only talking about the way I felt, not the wait staff's intentions!!! We need to be so careful with our grammar here!!

[Bux]

Bux, I have thought about that issue but did not mention it, because we expect different things in an American restaurant.  No, the bread is never served warm in France, and never served with butter.  Restaurant bread in France is usually quite unremarkable, something like a "vin du table".  But in France, is is normal to spend 2- 2 1/2 hours dining, with long waits between courses, as you "savor" the dining experience.  If an American restaurant took 25 minutes from the time you finished an appetizer until the main course, American diners would be pounding their fists on the table.  I just can't compare dining in the US with dining in France, it is such a different experience.  (Wish I could be on tonight's flight to Nice!!)

I don't expect that much difference between an American restaurant and a French one, but then again I live and eat in NYC.

I suppose I should watch out of they'll lock me in a room with Plotters.

As for butter, it may well depend on where you are. Two and three star restaurants customarily serve butter on the table and damn good butter at that. Around Nice, I wouldn't expect to see butter on the table except at the multi starred restaurants, but in Normandy or Brittany, I suspect butter appears more often. My friends in the Languedoc rarely put butter on the dinner table, breakfast maybe, but not dinner. My family (daughter's in-laws) usually have butter, at least when we're there, but then my son-in-law will have purchased some farmer's butter at the market that makes Plugra taste like Crisco. I've not seen farm butter at the stalls in Provence. I suppose we agree that dining varies as one travels.

As for the speed of service, my wife is always telling me to slow down because she feels the restaurant is rushing us and will have the next course on the table as soon as we finish the first one.

[Fat Guy]

I prefer sliced bread from large loaves to be room temperature, assuming it is very fresh, or toasted if it is to be served as part of a dish.

I prefer rolls and baguettes to be served warm. They almost universally taste better to me that way because of their high proportion of crust. I don't care if nobody in France has ever done it; they still taste better warm.

I do serve bread at home with meals, and I usually warm it.

[Bux]

Admittedly, there's a high tolerance for cold toast as well in France.

[Jinmyo]

Room temperature. Warm bread at a restaurant is stale bread.

Cool but spreadable butter.

Some breads, such as Pepin's French country bread, need to cool and rest for three or four hours to be at their best.

[Fat Guy]

A point of clarification: Warm bread is not the same as bread that has not been allowed to cool. Most good restaurants that serve warm rolls get them from a commercial bakery, where they have been fully cooled on racks in accordance with good baking procedure. In a typical New York fine-dining restaurant, the bread delivery comes twice a day, after the early and late bakes. The correctly cooled bread is then warmed for service. In my opinion, this often has the effect of making a roll more pleasurable to eat. It especially improves the crust.

[hjshorter]

Depending on the bread, room temperature is fine by me, though I have fond memories of the restaurants of yore that used to serve popovers fresh from the oven.  Haven't seen that for years and years.

Check out Normandie Farm, if you're ever in Potomac MD. They still serve hot popovers.