Melanger experimentation

[jimb0]

8 hours ago, EsaK said:

Has anyone ordered melangers from Chocolate Melangeur? They offer free shipping whereas from Melangers.com it would be almost 50% extra to the price. However I'm struggling to find out whether they're a reliable place to buy from? On Facebook there's just 3 reviews, and one of them from 2018 isn't that positive. Or alternatively, if someone knows European shops that have for example the Premier melangers (or others of similar quality), then please do let me know! 😊

 

It's erroring out for me right now, but if I recall correctly the last time I checked that site they didn't stock any of the chocolate specific models, I don't think, just the standard wet grinders.

 

In that vein is Melangers.com the standard for Canadian people? I tried messaging Premier on Amazon.ca because the chocolate-specific models used to be available on there, but they misunderstood my question and didn't really answer.

[Tri2Cook]

1 hour ago, jimb0 said:

In that vein is Melangers.com the standard for Canadian people? I tried messaging Premier on Amazon.ca because the chocolate-specific models used to be available on there, but they misunderstood my question and didn't really answer.

I can't speak on behalf of all Canadian people but I've been nothing but happy with the customer service I've had from them. They've answered any questions I've had quickly and helpfully even when it wasn't something that would financially benefit them. If you're having difficulty getting them to understand what you need via email, give 'em a call. 

[EsaK]

Their website seems to have been down when jimb0 you were looking, it's up again now. So they have for example Premier 11lbs tilting model and Premier 8lbs model available, others as well in the chocolate category actually. It rings some alarm bells when for example the reviews on those machines are half a dozen and according to the site, all posted on the same date. Unless there are some who have bought from them then probably better to try and find it from another source. Happy to hear if anyone know any with reasonable shipping to Europe! 

[jimb0]

7 hours ago, EsaK said:

Their website seems to have been down when jimb0 you were looking, it's up again now. So they have for example Premier 11lbs tilting model and Premier 8lbs model available, others as well in the chocolate category actually. It rings some alarm bells when for example the reviews on those machines are half a dozen and according to the site, all posted on the same date. Unless there are some who have bought from them then probably better to try and find it from another source. Happy to hear if anyone know any with reasonable shipping to Europe! 

 

Yeah they list them in the chocolate category but Premier makes a series of their grinders specifically designed for chocolate refining, with better venting and theoretically other upgraded components (and premier supports running them for hours on end). These aren't them. The chocolate refiners have a badge that says chocolate refiner on  it. I think this is a website that's trying to capitalize on the recent popularity and selling standard wet grinders.

 

Here's the rub: can you use them for chocolate refining? I mean, yeah, at the end of the day they're the same basic machines and the recent explosion in American craft chocolate has been driven by the wet grinders. Especially if you're willing to put in some DIY modifications. But they aren't supported and may more easily overheat, especially on the timescales that it takes to use one of these for refining (i.e., minimum 24 hours of constant running, likely). Add in the reviews issue (I also noticed this the other day) and I'd avoid the website. 

 

I'm not sure if Amazon.co.uk ships to Finland, but they are listed on that site (note the red bases): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ss-Premier-Chocolate-Refiner-Melanger/dp/B07B9Z7VH2

[EsaK]

9 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

 

Yeah they list them in the chocolate category but Premier makes a series of their grinders specifically designed for chocolate refining, with better venting and theoretically other upgraded components (and premier supports running them for hours on end). These aren't them. The chocolate refiners have a badge that says chocolate refiner on  it. I think this is a website that's trying to capitalize on the recent popularity and selling standard wet grinders.

 

Here's the rub: can you use them for chocolate refining? I mean, yeah, at the end of the day they're the same basic machines and the recent explosion in American craft chocolate has been driven by the wet grinders. Especially if you're willing to put in some DIY modifications. But they aren't supported and may more easily overheat, especially on the timescales that it takes to use one of these for refining (i.e., minimum 24 hours of constant running, likely). Add in the reviews issue (I also noticed this the other day) and I'd avoid the website. 

 

I'm not sure if Amazon.co.uk ships to Finland, but they are listed on that site (note the red bases): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ss-Premier-Chocolate-Refiner-Melanger/dp/B07B9Z7VH2

 

Jimb0, that is all extremely helpful, thank you. Hadn't noticed the badge before, good to know. I'll leave that site out now then, not worth trying one's luck. 

 

I should've checked all the Amazons too more carefully but had missed that one! Should always go through at least .co.uk, .de, .com to see what has what you're looking for.. Anyway, Amazon.co.uk and .de do ship to Finland. It looks like there's no shipping costs from Amazon.de, which is rather peculiar since it does say they're shipped from the US.

[jimb0]

 

On 5/10/2020 at 8:10 PM, Tri2Cook said:

I can't speak on behalf of all Canadian people but I've been nothing but happy with the customer service I've had from them. They've answered any questions I've had quickly and helpfully even when it wasn't something that would financially benefit them. If you're having difficulty getting them to understand what you need via email, give 'em a call. 

I’d psyched myself up to purchase one, but shipping is an additional $80USD. I get that they’re heavy but I wasn’t quite expecting that. That would push it well above $500CAD. That’s disappointing; I wish there was some canadian stockers. The refiners used to be available on Amazon.ca, but the shipping wasn’t quite as high. I think I might unfortunately have to wait until the border reopens. Definitely a topic to discuss with my partner. 

[jedovaty]

Have any of you used one to grind down dry spices only?  Is there a drawback to this?  I tried an internet search, and all I found was "it can't do it".. but I don't understand why.  I know these can be used for making curry pastes and things, which I've done, but haven't tried dry grinding.  In another thread, I read some people use it on sugar only to break it down to powdered sugar, so... ???

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, jedovaty said:

Have any of you used one to grind down dry spices only?  Is there a drawback to this?  I tried an internet search, and all I found was "it can't do it".. but I don't understand why.  I know these can be used for making curry pastes and things, which I've done, but haven't tried dry grinding.  In another thread, I read some people use it on sugar only to break it down to powdered sugar, so... ???

 

I can attest you can make powdered sugar.  The problem is there is then a layer of sugar dust over everything in the kitchen.  I would expect the same issue with dry spices.  Plus you would need to use a very large quantity of spice.

 

[Tri2Cook]

4 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I can attest you can make powdered sugar.  The problem is there is then a layer of sugar dust over everything in the kitchen.  I would expect the same issue with dry spices.  Plus you would need to use a very large quantity of spice.

It does make nice powdered sugar. I've only done it once for the initial cleaning so it had a bit of grey tint to it but it was a fine batch of powdered sugar otherwise. I was worried about the lid not being enough to contain the sugar cloud so I pulled one of those little white plastic bags from the grocery store over the top when I did it. No mess. That said, I can't imagine the quantity of spices a person would need to be grinding for buying one of these to dedicate to that purpose to be worthwhile... but I bet it would do a damn good job of it.

[Kerry Beal]

Spoke with Bhavani a couple of days ago - he's figuring that he'll have units in Amazon.ca in the next few weeks. Just working on getting them shipped to the fulfillment center here. 

[jedovaty]

@JoNorvelleWalker and @Tri2Cook thanks.  I couldn't find my blade grinder, and was looking to do a very small quantity, so seems like this would be a bad way to go.  I rarely do spice grinds, so was looking to use something I already had in the house (way too lazy to use the m&p).  Ended up borrowing a relative's blade grinder.  They work all right sifting.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, jedovaty said:

@JoNorvelleWalker and @Tri2Cook thanks.  I couldn't find my blade grinder, and was looking to do a very small quantity, so seems like this would be a bad way to go.  I rarely do spice grinds, so was looking to use something I already had in the house (way too lazy to use the m&p).  Ended up borrowing a relative's blade grinder.  They work all right sifting.

 

Very bad way for a small quantity of anything.  But the only method I have found of making truly smooth nut butters.

 

 

Edit:  @nathanm says you can use a colloid mill.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Spoke with Bhavani a couple of days ago - he's figuring that he'll have units in Amazon.ca in the next few weeks. Just working on getting them shipped to the fulfillment center here. 

 

Any word on a better fitting lid for the small attachment?

 

[Kerry Beal]

6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Any word on a better fitting lid for the small attachment?

 

Well - he said the cost to make was too high - so I’d say no

[jimb0]

16 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Spoke with Bhavani a couple of days ago - he's figuring that he'll have units in Amazon.ca in the next few weeks. Just working on getting them shipped to the fulfillment center here. 

 

Hotttttt diggity. It's times like this that I appreciate having such an understanding SO....

 

I've been keeping extensive lists of projects to try, haha.

Edited May 22, 2020 by jimb0 (log)

[Rajala]

So I made a batch of lingonberry "chocolate" today. The one change I did was to add 5 grams of sunflower lecithin to the recipe (380 gram cocoa butter, 100 gram lingonberry powder,  520 gram caster sugar.) And that made all the difference in the viscosity. I'm eager to try my blackcurrant chocolate again, with some lecithing to see how it turns out.

[Tri2Cook]

Getting ready to take my first serious shot at the fruit couverture thing. I wasn't really tempted to try making the already existing flavors because, honestly, they taste good and it's cheaper to buy it than make it. But I got my hands on some freeze dried banana and peach powders so I'm gonna give those a shot. From what I've been able to dig up, the primary acid in peaches is malic. Is there any reason adding it to the mix would be a bad idea? I'm not convinced I can get a peach flavor I'll be happy with if it doesn't have that acid balance.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tri2Cook (log)

[Kerry Beal]

3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:

Getting ready to take my first serious shot at the fruit couverture thing. I wasn't really tempted to try the already existing flavors because, honestly, they taste good and it's cheaper to buy it than make it. But I got my hands on some freeze dried banana and peach powders so I'm gonna give those a shot. From what I've been able to dig up, the primary acid in peaches is malic. Is there any reason adding it to the mix would be a bad idea? I'm not convinced I can get a peach flavor I'll be happy with if it doesn't have that acid balance.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Douglas K]

On 1/11/2021 at 3:26 PM, Tri2Cook said:

Getting ready to take my first serious shot at the fruit couverture thing. I wasn't really tempted to try making the already existing flavors because, honestly, they taste good and it's cheaper to buy it than make it. But I got my hands on some freeze dried banana and peach powders so I'm gonna give those a shot. From what I've been able to dig up, the primary acid in peaches is malic. Is there any reason adding it to the mix would be a bad idea? I'm not convinced I can get a peach flavor I'll be happy with if it doesn't have that acid balance.

So, as a former winemaker, I can tell you that malic acid is just another organic acid. If you’re making chocolate, then I can’t see that because the fruit base contained more malic acid, that it would create any flavor issues for you. Malic acid is a less strong tasting acid, so it won’t be cutting through the chocolate as much. In winemaking we’d do malolactic fermentation for two reasons. First for stability in reds, so it happens in barrel or tank rather than in bottle, second mainly for Chardonnays to get the buttery flavor (which I hate) from diacetyl which is a byproduct depending on what bacteria you used. Long term it isn’t an issue in reds since it breaks down over time in the acid environment. Likely too much information, but there you go. Make on and don’t worry.

[Tri2Cook]

4 minutes ago, Douglas K said:

So, as a former winemaker, I can tell you that malic acid is just another organic acid. If you’re making chocolate, then I can’t see that because the fruit base contained more malic acid, that it would create any flavor issues for you. Malic acid is a less strong tasting acid, so it won’t be cutting through the chocolate as much. In winemaking we’d do malolactic fermentation for two reasons. First for stability in reds, so it happens in barrel or tank rather than in bottle, second mainly for Chardonnays to get the buttery flavor (which I hate) from diacetyl which is a byproduct depending on what bacteria you used. Long term it isn’t an issue in reds since it breaks down over time in the acid environment. Likely too much information, but there you go. Make on and don’t worry.

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with working with malic acid. I have a little collection of acids and do a little reading on which ones and in what ratios are in whatever fruit I want to work with. I've just never had reason to want to incorporate it into the chocolate making process. Wasn't sure if anything evil might happen in the melanger. I was gonna try it anyway but after a couple of positive replies, I'm no longer worried. Thanks!

[SweetSymphonybyM]

Has anybody experienced a strong plastic/chemical smell with their premier melanger bowls? It barely had a smell at first, but when washing it with water after the sugar cleanse it appeared and I'm worried it will contaminate any praline I attempt to make in it((.

[paul o' vendange]

On 1/12/2021 at 9:24 PM, Douglas K said:

So, as a former winemaker, I can tell you that malic acid is just another organic acid. If you’re making chocolate, then I can’t see that because the fruit base contained more malic acid, that it would create any flavor issues for you. Malic acid is a less strong tasting acid, so it won’t be cutting through the chocolate as much. In winemaking we’d do malolactic fermentation for two reasons. First for stability in reds, so it happens in barrel or tank rather than in bottle, second mainly for Chardonnays to get the buttery flavor (which I hate) from diacetyl which is a byproduct depending on what bacteria you used. Long term it isn’t an issue in reds since it breaks down over time in the acid environment. Likely too much information, but there you go. Make on and don’t worry.

 

Douglas, were you in the industry by any chance?  My cousin is a CA winemaker, though he left working for the big concerns when consolidation killed any hope of quality (he ran Jekel, until it was bought by bourbon guys and collapsed all capacity into mass-wine).

 

It’s a shame, I love his wine.  Pretty crazy, I used to work for a craft brewery (Goose Island, pre-Bud), and during that time my wife and I won a trip to England, dinner with the late Michael Jackson (all things malt writer, not the King of Pop) in London and a tour of breweries throughout England.

 

Pretty cool, after tour of Fuller’s in London, in their adjacent shop, lo and behold I see a small mountain of his wines on display.  They gushed, I was and am deeply proud of him.

Edited February 11, 2021 by paul o' vendange (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, SweetSymphonybyM said:

Has anybody experienced a strong plastic/chemical smell with their premier melanger bowls? It barely had a smell at first, but when washing it with water after the sugar cleanse it appeared and I'm worried it will contaminate any praline I attempt to make in it((.

 

Nope.

 

Only complaint was sugar dust in places I didn't know I had.

 

[Tri2Cook]

Is there a baseline for sugar when making fruit couvertures? I have some freeze dried banana powder I'm going to try. I ran into some issues when I made a batch from freeze dried corn that still has me wondering if starch can be an issue but assuming that doesn't prove to be the case with banana, I have no idea where I should start with the sugar level.

[EsaK]

17 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

Is there a baseline for sugar when making fruit couvertures? I have some freeze dried banana powder I'm going to try. I ran into some issues when I made a batch from freeze dried corn that still has me wondering if starch can be an issue but assuming that doesn't prove to be the case with banana, I have no idea where I should start with the sugar level.

 

Not sure if there's a baseline per se, but I think somewhere around 40% seems to be fine. Can go higher for really punchy flavours, and lower for more subtle ones. Haven't tried banana, but could imagine it being a tough one to bring out the flavour? Interested to hear if you have issues with the powder getting stuck (guessing that was the issue with corn?).