Gardening: 2002-2009 Seasons

lovebenton0 · June 3, 2004

Perfect for those lighter tomato sauces also. Good idea, Susan. If it's good enough for grandma . . . :laugh:

Then you can choose to can some for salsa, basilgirl, if you want.

jschyun · June 3, 2004

It looks like a Ronde de Nice hybrid, lovebenton0. Ronde de Nice are usually round, but they have those markings.

Just a note, Ronde de Nice is open pollinated, in fact some packets have it as an "heirloom". But I do agree that Ronde de Nice is awesome!

also, on the grey zucchini thing. I wonder if lovebenton0's plants are actually the variety Harukan F1 or just regular grey zucchini?

The reason I ask, is because Harukan is claimed to have Powdery Mildew resistance, and I see the tell tale bloom of PM on her plants. Also, if it really is Harukan, then she won't be able to save seed because it's a hybrid and the seed will not grow true to the parents.

**Smithy** · June 3, 2004

Canning? Why bother. Do the easy thing. Just toss the ripe tomates into the freezer. Skin on. Take what you want from the freezer, run under water and the skin pops right off. Plus, you can take out just what you need. Why stand over a hot stove in hot weather steaming up the kitchen when you could be out having a cocktail, smoking ribs, doing something summerlike?
My grandmother was liberated once she got the chest freeze. No more canning tomatoes in 90 degree heat with 90% humidity at 2:00 in the morning.

My personal jury is still out on whether freezing or canning is better. I didn't have much luck with freezing the tomatoes individually and "popping" the skins off later under running water - no doubt it was my technique. (How much time do you give them under the water, Susan? Or does this depend on the type of tomato?) Last year I canned a bunch of tomatoes and froze a bunch more; in both cases I skinned and seeded them. The funny thing is, the freezer operation was much easier up front but the canned tomatoes have been more convenient. I rarely have the foresight to take something out of the freezer in the morning (tearing out the door, trying to get someplace, trying to make sure the cats have been fed and are inside, etc. ad nauseum). In the evening then I'm either nuking the frozen package or opening a jar. OTOH, the frozen tomatoes keep much more of their color because they haven't been cooked during the canning process.

140 tomato plants! :blink:

**andiesenji** · June 4, 2004

also, on the grey zucchini thing. I wonder if lovebenton0's plants are actually the variety Harukan F1 or just regular grey zucchini?
The reason I ask, is because Harukan is claimed to have Powdery Mildew resistance, and I see the tell tale bloom of PM on her plants. Also, if it really is Harukan, then she won't be able to save seed because it's a hybrid and the seed will not grow true to the parents.

It is possible, however note that the leaves are not curling nor yellowing.

There was a big push to get the F1 hybrid out in the market last year and again this spring.

Lowe's, Home Depot and Wal-Mart had them here.

The plain grays, locally known as "Mexican Squash" has a small leaf. When attacked by PM the leaves immediately yellow and curl.

This plant looks like it is heavily infested but doesn't appear to be suffering.

My gardener brought in a basked full of squash this morning, including a bunch of the F1.

Most of my garden is watered by drip method, however one end still has standing sprinklers and the leaves of most of the plants there have white on them, however it is borax from the soil.

One advantage is that many species of insects simply can't live in soil with this much borax.

You are correct, the hybrid will not reproduce - however it has great blossoms for stuffing and frying.

Edited June 4, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

jschyun · June 4, 2004

One advantage is that many species of insects simply can't live in soil with this much borax.
You are correct, the hybrid will not reproduce - however it has great blossoms for stuffing and frying.

Thanks for the 411 on Harukan. I admit, I haven't really looked at the plant racks lately, so I don't know what the latest fads are. Oh, and just to clarify something I said. I should have said "she won't WANT to save seed because it's a hybrid, AS the seed will not grow true to the parents". my bad.

Where do you live that you have so much borax in your soil?

Just had some more black cherry tomatoes. I like these even more than sungold cherry tomatoes, which I find amazing. Squash is coming in like crazy. Cukes starting as well. It's gonna be a good year.

**andiesenji** · June 4, 2004

Where do you live that you have so much borax in your soil?

I live in a rural area near Lancaster, California. This is known as the "high" desert because of the altitude (above 2000, whereas Palm Springs is at sea Level). This means we have hot summers, but not as hot as the low desert and much colder winters, getting at times into single digits, however it is a brief winter.

This is an ancient sea bed, where I am the sand is 600 ft deep and the borax comes from minerals that settled out of the ancient sea. Not far away is Boron where borax is mined in a huge open pit.

This area is on top of the Mojave aquifer, many miles north the Mojave river disappears from the surface but continues underground and we have great water, very sweet, but it requires a deep well, ours is 1500 ft deep, but worth it. In fact the water is so tasty that people who try it say we should sell it, however that involves too much red tape for me.

Anyway, during the rainy season in the winter, after a heavy rainfall and the surface dries, you would see what appears to be frost, that is borax (and some other alkaline materials) that are brought to the surface by the rain. Once it dries, it blows away with the first wind. (We have a lot of wind - usually out of the west - which means that all the Joshua trees - odd looking things, lean toward the east.

It is an interesting area, as long as one can irrigate, especially with a drip system, almost anything will grow. I have been augmenting my garden for 16 years and it looks rather like a jungle. This is a photo of part of my kitchen garden (nicknamed Le Potager). I have a larger garden beyond the greenhouse but I have difficulty walking in the soft earth so my gardener takes care of it.

Strawberries picked yesterday morningl

Apricots already good sized, they have a month to go. This is an heirloom variety, huge and very sweet.

chefdg · June 4, 2004

Mine is more of a question. I have planted some flat leaf parsley and it is growing nice but what is the best way to remove the stems so as to not kill the entire plant, or make it "woodsey" as I have done to cilantro in the past??? :hmmm:

**andiesenji** · June 4, 2004

Mine is more of a question. I have planted some flat leaf parsley and it is growing nice but what is the best way to remove the stems so as to not kill the entire plant, or make it "woodsey" as I have done to cilantro in the past???

I clip the stems near the base, taking about 1/3 of the clump at a time. I have several pots with the flat leaf and a couple of the curly. I rotate the "harvest" and after new leaves appear on the cut part I will cut the second third, and so on. If I am going to be taking a bunch of different herbs I take a basket with a wet towel in the bottom (on a sheet of plastic wrap) and as I cut the herbs I tuck the cut ends of the stems under the towel. This allows air to circulate around the leaves but keeps the open end of the stem moist. I find they stay fresher longer this way.

In the kitchen I just plunk them into jelly jars with water, just like a boquet.

You should use a sharp scissors to cut them. I have a pair that is only used for the herbs.

memesuze · June 4, 2004

andiesenji, when my Italian parsley starts sending up those tall sprouts in the middle of the plant that make it look as tho it's about to clower and bolt, is the plant telling me it's nearing the end of its two-year cycle and I should get a little sister coming along soon, or is it merely telling me that I haven't been pruning severely enough when I go get the makings for a very-parsleyed tabouli?

**andiesenji** · June 5, 2004

andiesenji, when my Italian parsley starts sending up those tall sprouts in the middle of the plant that make it look as tho it's about to clower and bolt, is the plant telling me it's nearing the end of its two-year cycle and I should get a little sister coming along soon, or is it merely telling me that I haven't been pruning severely enough when I go get the makings for a very-parsleyed tabouli?

It is trying to "bolt" that is, flower and set seed.

If you cut the stems near the crown (base) of the plant you can usually keep it in line.

However you can probably get more mileage out of the plant if you dig it out and divide it.

Sometimes it just gets to the end of the cycle and won't come back.

I start several new plants each spring and again in the fall which overwinter in the greenhouse.

In the spring they go out into large pots in the garden, often paired with other compatible plants.

If you let it go to seed in the fall, new plants will grow back in the spring. The curly parsley is more robust and hardy and I have one that lives outside all the time. It dies back in the winter and reappears in the early spring.

lovebenton0 · June 5, 2004

also, on the grey zucchini thing. I wonder if lovebenton0's plants are actually the variety Harukan F1 or just regular grey zucchini?
The reason I ask, is because Harukan is claimed to have Powdery Mildew resistance, and I see the tell tale bloom of PM on her plants. Also, if it really is Harukan, then she won't be able to save seed because it's a hybrid and the seed will not grow true to the parents.
It is possible, however note that the leaves are not curling nor yellowing.
There was a big push to get the F1 hybrid out in the market last year and again this spring.
Lowe's, Home Depot and Wal-Mart had them here.
The plain grays, locally known as "Mexican Squash" has a small leaf. When attacked by PM the leaves immediately yellow and curl.
This plant looks like it is heavily infested but doesn't appear to be suffering.
My gardener brought in a basked full of squash this morning, including a bunch of the F1.
Most of my garden is watered by drip method, however one end still has standing sprinklers and the leaves of most of the plants there have white on them, however it is borax from the soil.
One advantage is that many species of insects simply can't live in soil with this much borax.
You are correct, the hybrid will not reproduce - however it has great blossoms for stuffing and frying.

The white is not PM on the squash. They are quite healthy. They look like that as the water spots are drying and the flash on the camera just picked it up -- moisture and mineral water out here around the lakes, we filter our water for drinking. I'll hit them with the milk dilution if PM appears.

I don't remember whether we got these particular plants at Lowe's or Home Depot, but both places are notorious for generic marking of veg plants. We buy what we can from a special nursery way on the other side of town, Marbridge, but they don't always have everything we want when we can get there. Then we just fill in the whatevers with plants from the bigger outlets nearby or grocery stores. We ended up with a mystery pepper that way also this year that my mr thought was a serrano -- definitely not! But I'll have to let it mature before I know what it is!

GG Mora · June 6, 2004

I'm joining the party late; it's just planting time here in SoVT. Spent most of yesterday turning under the soil in my raised beds and planting out, while my husband built two new beds and the kids filled them with dirt. Won't bore you with lists or general pics unless anyone's really interested.

The real purpose of this post is to share my unorthodox technique for growing leeks. Rather than plant them in a trench and hill them throughout the season, I tuck seedlings into pre-poked holes and then leave them be, aside from weeding and fertilizing (FWIW, I water everything with a solution of Neptune's Secret throughout the season).

Goes like this:

I start by marking out a grid and poking holes. I use an iron rod for poking holes. The beds are 8" deep, so I just drive the rod in and circle it slightly to pack the sides of the hole. The holes are about 1/2" dia.

I knock all the dirt off a bunch of seedlings...

...then carefully pull out one seedling at a time. Since I'm not using all the seedlings, I choose the ones with the most vigorous, and longest, green tops. I hold the seedling by the top of the white, just below where it starts to be flimsy...

...and tuck it deep into the hole, probably 6".

Here's the planted grid:

There's enough green top to soak up sun and air to feed the roots. They take a little while to get going, but this method has several advantages: it produces leeks with plenty of the desirable white, blanched section; the leeks have less dirt and grit in the layers; they're quite fuss-free relative to "trenched" leeks. And they'll grow big and fat just the same.

Also wanted to share this:

A full box of hardneck garlic, planted last fall. Just starting to develop scapes.

Does anyone have any experience with a variety of tomato called "Black from Tula"? The tag at the nursery described it as "the ugliest, most delicious variety grown". Couldn't pass up a promise like that & brought home one plant for trials.

Edited June 6, 2004 by GG Mora (log)

JSD · June 7, 2004

My apple trees have a bit of powdery mildew. It was diagnosed by a neighbor. I was relieved because I was afraid it might be fire blight. Does anyone have an idea of what to do about powdery mildew?

GG Mora · June 8, 2004

My apple trees have a bit of powdery mildew. It was diagnosed by a neighbor. I was relieved because I was afraid it might be fire blight. Does anyone have an idea of what to do about powdery mildew?

Try spraying with a solution of Neem Oil. It's also effective against apple rusts and scab (and a host of other ills).

I've used this product from New England Hydroponics, with good results, against cabbage worm, whitefly and aphids.

lovebenton0 · June 8, 2004

If you start getting powdery mildew on your squash plant leaves, try spraying them with watered down milk. Will stop PM in its tracks. I read this hint in Organic Gardening some time ago.

You also might try this advice from jschyun for your powdery mildew.

galleygirl · June 8, 2004

I'm joining the party late;.....(FWIW, I water everything with a solution of Neptune's Secret throughout the season).

I'm joining the party late, too, and for my first time!!!!! :shock:

Please elaborate on feeding with Neptune's Secret...Where, what, and how often? Thanks..

gg

GG Mora · June 8, 2004

I'm joining the party late;.....(FWIW, I water everything with a solution of Neptune's Secret throughout the season).

I'm joining the party late, too, and for my first time!!!!!
Please elaborate on feeding with Neptune's Secret...Where, what, and how often? Thanks..
gg

Oops, my bad. It's actually called Neptune's Harvest. Kind of a slurry of rotted things from the sea...I use the fish/seaweed blend. Very mild organic fertilizer, and not terribly stinky as fish by-products go. I just dump the contents of a bottle into a hose-end sprayer/mixer – like the Ortho Dial-n-Spray. I generally set the mix to 2 tbsp/gallon. That's stronger than recommended (I think), but the sprayer isn't all that accurate, since water from the hose tends to leak into the bottle. Besides, it's such a mild elixir to begin with, there's no real danger of burning the plants or anything.

When I plant out seedlings, I water them in well with NH for a few days. You can get the "sprayer" to output sort of a heavy dribbling flow, with which I water well at the base of each plant. It helps get the seedlings past that nitrogen-deprived yellowy green they often develop sitting crammed in starter trays. Throughout the growing season, I fertilize again about every 2 weeks.

I also highly recommend using some kind of quick-release couplings for your hose and attachments. This type from Gardena, with the pull-back release, are primo (just including the link to show the type – Hell's Depot carries something similar for a lot less money). This lets you switch around your attachments without having to wander back to the faucet and turn it off every time. Between the sprinkler, the fertilizer sprayer, and the pistol-grip sprayer, I do fair bit of switching them around, so it saves a lot of wandering.

snowangel · June 10, 2004

Pity sought. As I stated earlier in this thread, we are in a new-to-us-house, with a negliected yard, owned previously by people who liked (?) overgrown arborvitae (which have been eradicated and lots of landscaping rock. Why people by rocks, I'll never know, by that's my opinion.

Anyway, I have taken plants from my former garden. Friends have donated. I have tons of stuff heeled in.

But, it won't quit raining. Every other day we get an inch or two. No window in which to get the tiller out, till up the soil, till in some good stuff, and plant a real garden. Everytime it's almost dry enough to till, it starts raining again. Yes, I know rain is a good thing. But a break long enough to get the garden tilled would be appreciated. And, outside of one day above 90 degrees, the weather has been behaving like it's April.

Meantime, I am frustrated and energized by the pics that all of you post. I do have dirt under my nails -- from removing the tons of rock in my yard -- bucket by bucket. The kids get $.50 for each bucket they dump.

memesuze · June 10, 2004

As I get older and ache-ier after long bouts of weeding, mixing compost into existing beds, and unloading pickup truckloads of mulch and compost, I dream of a few areas completely submerged in rocks, both river and boulder. No doubt the former owners weren't as judicious in their coverage as you or I might be - but I wish I had more than a few buckets of your rocks. Unfortunately, Austin, where I received over six inches of rain the last three days, is too far from MN....

GG Mora · June 10, 2004

Pity sought.

Pity given. I'm in the very same boat, having replace my tidy cottage and its carefully manicured grounds and gardens with an overgrown unlandscaped hulk. I can't even begin to establish perennial beds since nearly all of the property is to be excavated and regraded once we have the $$$. We did get the very front of the house graded in our first year, and last spring laid out wood-framed raised beds in which to do some vegetable gardening. They were quite successful (and rock- [though not stone-] free). We added two more this year. You can really overcome a multitude of sins this way.

As for all that rain...you have my deepest sympathy. A few years back, we had such a rainy spring & early summer that the soil started to grow great patches of icky yellow mold. And don't get me started on the slugs. I'll pray to the sun gods for you. :biggrin:

**andiesenji** · June 10, 2004

And don't get me started on the slugs. I'll pray to the sun gods for you.

Temps are cooler here in the high desert this week. High 70s and low 80s instead of near 100.

I haven't had much in the way of slug problems since I bought some nocturnal slug-eating toads. They patrol the garden at night (scare hell out of the dogs) and occasionally we find one when my gardener moves a large pot as they seem to prefer to burrow under the pots instead of live in the "toad huts" we placed here and there in the garden. The biggest one, observed Saturday night when the dogs went nuts, is the size of a saucer. At first I thought it was a rock but it moved and I could see it was one of the toads.

They also get some of the grasshoppers who move when the lights in the garden go on from the dogs moving around. I find the discarded hind legs (we have some huge grasshoppers) here and there before the ants get them.

The dogs know better than to bite the toads, it seems to be instinctive. You can check with a local gardening club as they usually know what benefical critters will work in your area.

I use no pesticides in my garden, only natural controls such as predatory insects, etc.

Mayhaw Man · June 10, 2004

I have about a million tomatoes turning slowly red. We have had 2 feet (literally) of rain in the last couple of weeks. I am having to pull some of the tomatoes before fully ripe due to splitting and end rot because of the rain. It is also in the nineties here in the daytime and the plants will not last much longer, so they have got to start getting ripe quickly or come off of the vine.

Any hints on ripening tomatoes off of the vine? I had an awesome crop and don't want it to go to waste from rot on the vine.

Toliver · June 10, 2004

Any hints on ripening tomatoes off of the vine? I had an awesome crop and don't want it to go to waste from rot on the vine.

Whatever you do don't ever refrigerate them. That completely stops the chemical process that makes home-grown tomatoes as flavorful as they are.

My mom always placed tomatoes that needed ripening on her kitchen windowsill. They don't need the sun anymore...it was just a place to put them so they were out of the way of day to day kitchen use, but still visible enough not to forget about them.

Once the ripening has started (I believe that happens when about 10% of the tomato is red) it's a done deal. They should continue to go all the way to full red assuming the chemical ripening process has been triggered and wasn't interrupted in any way.

jess mebane · June 10, 2004

I have about a million tomatoes turning slowly red. We have had 2 feet (literally) of rain in the last couple of weeks. I am having to pull some of the tomatoes before fully ripe due to splitting and end rot because of the rain. It is also in the nineties here in the daytime and the plants will not last much longer, so they have got to start getting ripe quickly or come off of the vine.
Any hints on ripening tomatoes off of the vine? I had an awesome crop and don't want it to go to waste from rot on the vine.

We're having the same trouble in Texas, Mr. Mayhaw, and the method listed here is good for curing green tomatoes in advance of birds or more rain:

those green tomatoes lowest on the totem can be gathered and placed on their heads in a paper bag, then stored somewhere for about 3-7 days until they've reached a color you like, or placed on the windowsill once they're orange-y green. I've also had success using an old red coca-cola crate; this enables me to stack two layers of tomatoes with red construction paper in between. Don't know if this is science or superstition, but it's worked well for me the past couple of years. I also remember some of my neighbors in Lockhart would buy the red mulch product to achieve faster ripening. Burpee can just about sell us anything at least once out in Caldwell county.

Basilgirl · June 10, 2004

I have about a million tomatoes turning slowly red. We have had 2 feet (literally) of rain in the last couple of weeks. I am having to pull some of the tomatoes before fully ripe due to splitting and end rot because of the rain. It is also in the nineties here in the daytime and the plants will not last much longer, so they have got to start getting ripe quickly or come off of the vine.
Any hints on ripening tomatoes off of the vine? I had an awesome crop and don't want it to go to waste from rot on the vine.

My sister takes the last of her tomatoes (in West Virginia, early fall) and wraps each one in newspaper and puts them in boxes in the basement. She said they last until Thanksgiving, slowly ripening.

I tried it once and they all rotted on me before they ripened. :angry: If you can keep them cool enough down there it might be worth a shot, though.