Gardening: 2002-2009 Seasons

[suzilightning]

Yes, you did.  Jinx us, that is.  A fresh 6" here today -- wet and heavy, but beautiful with the snow on the tree branches.

well? how abotu now. We're less than 1 week away fromt he official start of Spring. I think it's nearly safe to say the "S" word.

I see a dethatching rake in my future, and a few hours spent behind my tiller.

Ooh, the smell of fresh, most earth...cannot be too far away.

Course, we're only expected a high of 36?F today.

But June is right around the corner!!

NO NO NO NO NO.

BAAAADDDDD hopleaf.

i got the first half of my gurney's order(monkeyflowers) and my new, self watering window boxes yesterday. today - 4-8 inches of snow.

hope the hostas don't freeze when they get here next week

[Hopleaf]

it snowed the very night I posted that. I awoke to a dusting and it really hasn't stopped since.

I've offended the gods and they won't let this one slide.

It can stop snowing now. I've learned my lesson. No really, anytime is good. No more snow. please, I...I...I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

I hereby swear never to use the "S" word prior to...prior to...um, I have no idea when it's safe so I'll just never use it again. Not even in reference to a trampoline.

I'm sorry.

[suzilightning]

hopleaf

going to school in fredonia ny we had the saying that it could snow anywhere from 15 october to 15 may - and it did so bad one year that rt 17 was closed and we had to go home the thruway which only had one lane open.

here in northern nj all the new officers who come to the arsenal are told not to put their flowers out until 15 may. it 's so funny to see their confusion since most of them are moving here from places like radford, va; ft. sam houston, tx; blevoir, va. and they put them out and have to replace them when they are frost killed.

let us say no S word until...20 may?

[tsquare]

Seattle is back into cycles of doom and gloom rain alternating with strong winds and sunshine. If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes.

Despite this, my sugar snap peas are about two inches tall - planted seeds in late February. Sweet peas are following behind.

Ate the overwintering broccoli, pulled out the bolted chinese greens but am letting the arugula go to seed.

Raspberry and blueberries are unfurling their leaves.

Tarragon and loveage are bright and beautiful.

I may have killed the fig last fall .

Strolled the garden center last weekend and picked up vegetable seeds - multi-color beets and chards, and assorted other stuff. Time to get those beds ready!

[mongo_jones]

people,

forgive me if i'm just starting over here (19 pages is a lot to read--i made it till the third page of the thread):

i want to begin a herb garden--however it can't be in the backyard proper since we have deer constantly in there and they will eat anything that grows. also, we are renting and a) i don't want to invest in fences etc. in someone else's house and b) i'd like to take my herb garden with me when we buy our own house (in a year or three). thus i am thinking of crates which i imagine can be deer-proofed a little easier/cheaper. my questions are the following:

1. how easy/feasible is it to grow herbs in pots/crates? can you grow anything else in them?

2. we live in colorado (boulder)--what herbs are feasible in this climate? (early spring this year.)

3. how/where do i begin?

thanks in advance!

mongo

[fredbram]

Hi Mongo, being in Denver, I've got the same climate issues as you. Herbs do really well in Colorado in general. There are a few herbs, like rosemary, marjoram and summer savory, which are perennial in warmer climates, but need to be brought inside to winter over in Colorado. But we grow chives, tarragon, thyme, winter savory, oregano, sorrel among others. I haven't grown herbs in containers--my concern would be the winter season. I am guessing that you might need pretty large containers to have the plants survive the winter, but I'm not sure. Or bring them inside for the winter. maybe others have some experience with container herb gardening.

[fredbram]

We have had a very warm, dry March in Denver. I planted lettuce last weekend (the 20th), and we have arugula, lolla rossa, escarole, a couple of different mesclun mixes, mustard, spinach and head lettuce up already. We also planted, for the second year, a lettuce called crispy frills, which is very similar in eating texture to iceberg, but shorter growing season and greater heat tolerance.

I have never been able to get a lettuce crop in and up this early, I'm so excited. I hope to be eating salad in 2-3 weeks.

I also have lettuce plants just sprouted indoors and placed a chile plant order for an array of chile plants, we decide to put a bunch of peppers in this year to see what we like besides our standards--peppers are not something that we have had consistent success with in the past--anyone have techniques to share for successful chile growing?

[jschyun]

Geez, it's so hot here, I want to die. 88 degrees and counting. My lettuces and such are done. Thank God I put in the tomatoes early this year. This is going to be one hot summer.

I just pulled the last of the baby "Mokum" carrots of the year. Brittle, sweet, and tiny, I'm going to grow them again. I wish I was patient enough to let them grow full size.

[mongo_jones]

We have had a very warm, dry March in Denver. I planted lettuce last weekend (the 20th), and we have arugula, lolla rossa, escarole, a couple of different mesclun mixes, mustard, spinach and head lettuce up already. We also planted, for the second year, a lettuce called crispy frills, which is very similar in eating texture to iceberg, but shorter growing season and greater heat tolerance.

I have never been able to get a lettuce crop in and up this early, I'm so excited. I hope to be eating salad in 2-3 weeks.

I also have lettuce plants just sprouted indoors and placed a chile plant order for an array of chile plants, we decide to put a bunch of peppers in this year to see what we like besides our standards--peppers are not something that we have had consistent success with in the past--anyone have techniques to share for successful chile growing?

hey fred,

sounds good--i'm going to have to get tips from you at the denver egullet dinner in a few weeks.

mongo

[mongo_jones]

I haven't grown herbs in containers--my concern would be the winter season. I am guessing that you might need pretty large containers to have the plants survive the winter, but I'm not sure. Or bring them inside for the winter. maybe others have some experience with container herb gardening.

quick and probably foolish question:

why would containers be a bigger question-mark than outdoor planting in cold-winter climate places (as opposed to california)? wouldn't fixed plants be more consistently exposed to cold than plants in containers which can be moved?

anyone have luck with herbs in larger containers in cold places?

[fredbram]

I think that in a container plants tend to be more susceptible to temperature and moisture fluctuations. Quick ups and downs in temp and dryness are more dangerous to perennials than very cold temps. But I'm not a botanist, even though I play one on TV. In other words, I could be making this theory up from stray facts and fictions floating around in my head.

[sparrowgrass]

Whoo-hoo!! Spring smells like garlic here. Long ago, when the first settlers came in with their sacks of seed wheat, they brought along the little bulblets of wild garlic, and it has really made itself at home. When you mow your lawn that first time in the spring, the smell makes you hungry. I haven't eaten it--I understand that if you put a few sprigs in your shoe and walk for an hour, you can smell garlic on your breath--stout stuff.

The fields in the Mississippi bottoms, still not tilled, are a blue green haze--wild garlic. Of course that is not the only color in the palette. Greens predominate, with a bright lime from the winter cress with the yellow flowers, and kelly from the fescue coming up so strong in this cool wet weather. There are drifts of white from the white flowered cress, but most amazing is the red dead nettle, which covers whole acres in bright magenta.

I tilled the garden with my new Troy Built Super Bronco. If it is possible to love a machine, this is my heartthrob. One pass leaves the garden looking like potting soil. I have peas, lettuce, spinach and potatoes up, and if the chickens would leave the broccoli and cabbage alone, it would have some leaves on it. I put the electric fence up, but a couple of the girls just slip right under, and walk the row pulling every leaf off the seedlings. "Soup!" I say, as I chase them out.

I cut my first asparagus yesterday, and ate morels that my sis and I found. I love spring.

[GG Mora]

Here in South Central VT the garlic is sprouting! Yippee! The raised beds are finally clear of snow as of yesterday, but still too firm for tilling. Time to get some seedlings started...

[chickenlady]

Being up here in the just-barely-not-frozen-anymore north, I'm am happy to report that the garlic has sprouted. That's it and will be it for some time. I will be starting my seeds this weekend--the traditional planting time here is Memorial Day and people will think you're crazy if you try any sooner. I'm going to push it with some of the cool season crops this year though.

Mongo, I can't think of any herbs that can't be grown successfully in containers. Even though I have tons of room and not much of a deer problem, I usually plant up at least one wine barrel full of herbs (in addition to what's in the yard). It looks beautiful and it's convenient to have some of the more commonly used herbs close by. I don't put perennials in the barrel, though; I'm just too lazy to move them indoors and those that are hardy are more likely to survive if planted in the ground. There are also many herbs that deer don't prefer (although they'll eat anything if hungry enough), including sage, thyme, mints, lavender, nasturtium, borage, chives, rosemary, oregano, savory, and tons more. I'm sure your Cooperative Extension office would be able to steer you the right direction and they want you to call--it's how they prove they are worth funding (plug from a NY Master Gardener here).

[mongo_jones]

Mongo, I can't think of any herbs that can't be grown successfully in containers. Even though I have tons of room and not much of a deer problem, I usually plant up at least one wine barrel full of herbs (in addition to what's in the yard). It looks beautiful and it's convenient to have some of the more commonly used herbs close by. I don't put perennials in the barrel, though; I'm just too lazy to move them indoors and those that are hardy are more likely to survive if planted in the ground. There are also many herbs that deer don't prefer (although they'll eat anything if hungry enough), including sage, thyme, mints, lavender, nasturtium, borage, chives, rosemary, oregano, savory, and tons more. I'm sure your Cooperative Extension office would be able to steer you the right direction and they want you to call--it's how they prove they are worth funding (plug from a NY Master Gardener here).

chickenlady,

thank you. i'm thinking crates though--since those'll be easier to fit into the trunk of a car come moving time; is a crate too shallow to be of use? the herbs i'm mostly interested in to begin with are a couple of varieties of basil, cilantro, italian parsley, mint and tarragon. i take it these would be highly container friendly. i am happy to plant some rosemary if only to thumb my nose at those greedy deer. i suppose another way to deer-proof might be to kill one of them and mount its head on a stake as a warning. mmm venison...actually, the herd in question was mostly born in our backyard years ago (as per our landlord and neighbours) and they know that they were here first. mmm lyme disease...

now, what is a cooperative extension office? and how do i find one near me.

and i may have asked this before but does your screen-name have a kids in the hall connection or are you just someone who likes poultry?

regards,

mongo

[Rhea_S]

Checked my little herb garden this weekend and the sage, french tarragon, chives, oregano, marjoram and lovage have all come back and are doing well plus a huge clump of lemon thyme that didn't really die back too much this winter. The pineapple sage looks dead but maybe it's just slow. I still have my fingers crossed for the lemongrass. I definitely lost the lavender and rosemary. I found some 2-year old herb seeds and decided to scatter them around and see what I get this year.

[fredbram]

thank you. i'm thinking crates though--since those'll be easier to fit into the trunk of a car come moving time; is a crate too shallow to be of use? the herbs i'm mostly interested in to begin with are a couple of varieties of basil, cilantro, italian parsley, mint and tarragon. i take it these would be highly container friendly. i am happy to plant some rosemary if only to thumb my nose at those greedy deer. i suppose another way to deer-proof might be to kill one of them and mount its head on a stake as a warning. mmm venison...actually, the herd in question was mostly born in our backyard years ago (as per our landlord and neighbours) and they know that they were here first. mmm lyme disease...

now, what is a cooperative extension office? and how do i find one near me.

and i may have asked this before but does your screen-name have a kids in the hall connection or are you just someone who likes poultry?

regards,

mongo

The extension service is run by CSU in fort Collins--Boulder county phone number is 303-776-4865.

Basil and Cilantro are annuals, you will need to replant every year no matter what so you could plant them in containers or in the ground, you won't have to move them unless you move in the middle of the summer.

Parsley, tarragon and mint are all perennials and they will come back year after year, but I still have doubts about how well they will do in a container, no matter what type.

[jackal10]

Spring is here. Dirt under the fingernails.

So far I have

- sown Tomatos (Sungold, Gardeners Delight, Fireworks and some oddities)

- sown Thai Dragon hot chilli

Planted out broad beans, and sown sucesseion

Planted out overwintered Purple peas + sucession

Planted out lettuce (Buttercrunch) + sown sucession

Sown Radish, early carrots, rocket

Sown (inside) pumpkin, courgette, squashes

Put the potatoes to chit (Arran Pilot, Purple, Pink Fir Apple)

Garlic and shallots are coming up nicely. Too early for Asparagus.

Soft fruit - lots more raspberries this year coming on. Strawberries flowering in the greenhouse

Looks like some of the apple trees that the rabbits ringed are budding. The next month will see if they have survived. Certainly lost a couple, but planted some more - Charles Ross and Norfolk Beefing. Norfolk Beefing is a curiosity - dark purple thick skin, and the classic apple for drying. In olen times people would make "biffins" - pu the apples in a very slow oven, traditionally the bakers oven, under an iron weight, whole. The skin stays whole, and the texture turns custardy and cinamon flavoured apparently. There are references in Dickens.

Herbs mostly look after themselves, but have sown three sorts of Basil.

Lots to do in the flower garden too. The main border (about 200yds long 10 yds deep) is mostly old roses, and cardoons, but it goes a bit dull in August, so I've been putting in perrenials for then.

The garden tasks are never ending. The recent winds brought down a two trees in the wood, so out with the tractor and chain saw. We've also built, from old pallets, three luxurious new compost bins. There is a big heap of last years grass cuttings to be shoveled into them, to be mixed with the heap of apple pomace left over from the juice pressing.

[Arey]

[

Parsley, tarragon and mint are all perennials and they will come back year after year, but I still have doubts about how well they will do in a container, no matter what type.

Parsley is a biennial, the first year it germinates, puts down a thick taproot, and puts out a lot of leaves. The second year it flowers and dies. Some people say that first year parsley has a superior flavor to second year parsley. I plant it new every year, but always let a few overwinter to go to seed the next year. It reseeds itself well. Right now it's cold, damp and overcast in So. Jersey, perfect parsley planting weather, since Parsley doesn't like hot humid summers. After planting the seed, I pour boiling water over the rows to encourage germination.

This is also the time for planting dill. When picking either parsley or dill you hjave to carefully look them over for small swallowtail caterpiller instars, and relocate them to the parsley and dill plants you aren't going to harvest. That's where the second year parsley plants come in handy.

It's best to plant mint in containers if you plan on staying where you are for any length of time since it is extreemly invasive and difficult to get rid of.

[Arey]

the herbs i'm mostly interested in to begin with are a couple of varieties of basil, cilantro, italian parsley, mint and tarragon. i take it these would be highly container friendly.

I had two Rosemary plants in containers for years. The variety was Arp, and the containers are about 11 inches square at the top, and 8 inches deep. Each year I'd bring them in in the Fall and take them back out in the Spring. Since I'm not into the level of commitment that house plants require I decided to plant one outdoors on the south side of my goldfish pond where it could be warm and sheltered. It seemed to do well here in coastal So. Jersey, about 6 blocks from the ocean. The other one I gave to my sister-in-law who lives on the bay side of So. Jersey, and she planted it in her garden. Well, the Winter of 2002-2003 seriously damaged mine and slightly damaged hers. This past winter has just about done mine in and seriously damaged hers.

You could also grow thyme in pots, but from whatI've read, tarragon doesn't take kindly to containers. I've grown basil in containers with no problems. For a plant with a brief growing season, growing it in a contaioner allows you to dump it when it's growing season is over and use the container for something else like basil.

Landscaping With Herbs by Jim Wilson, published by Houghton-Mifflin has a good section on growing herbs in containers. You might also check out the garden web forums which probably has a forum for gardening in Colorado along with herb gardening forums.

[sparrowgrass]

Hey, Mongo, Extension is a part of your state's land grant university. We make information from the university available to people in the county, and it can be ANY kind of information, from child development to insect identification to septic tanks to livestock production to small business and other financial information, using the resources and research from the university. We also do 4-H, and some states still do extension homemaker clubs. You can usually find it in the phone book, in the county seat, under "_____ County Extension".

You can also access lots of extension info on the web at www.reeusda.gov.

You got questions? We got answers.

This commercial was brought to you by the Iron County (MO) Extension Service.

[devlin]

Brand new to gardening. Have some questions I hope won't sound totally lame or haven't already been asked and answered or otherwise discussed.

We're in southern Indiana (bordering Louisville, KY), just moved into our new place several months ago but have been so busy putting up acres of fence and building out the barn that we've only now gotten time to sit down and wonder how in the world to think about approaching gardening. We want to do everything at once (unrealistic, of course), but feel compelled first to do some landscaping around the front yard which has not one bit of it yet. We've ordered a variety of fruit trees for the front few acres between the street and front yard, and we're designing a walkway from front stairs to drive, together with a garden and trees all round that area, all of which we're doing ourselves. But we also want to start a kitchen garden in the back, herbs, etc., and a vegetable garden as well.

Here's one of the stupid questions. How late is too late to start a vegetable garden? And things like garlic. Is it too late to start garlic? Can you tell I know nothing? I'm afraid by the time we research the stuff we'll be off by too many months. Should we just focus on learning as much as we can now and plan for next year? Not to mention we've got the wood-fired brick oven to build immediately to start up my bread business. This is beginning to sound insane as I type, but my husband is hell-bent on doing everything now. Which is probably just as well, otherwise the horses might be living in the basement.

And speaking about manure. I've always heard that horse manure is one of the best things you can put in a garden -- horse manure turned fertilizer, that is. But early in the thread someone suggested something to the contrary, or at least cautioned that it may not always be the best thing. True? Not true? If it is true, is it okay to use manure without compost? Is there any vegetation you shouldn't use in compost? I've got three fast growing piles of horse manure out back, and we've planned to use the stuff in the gardens once it's all broken down completely.

And an aside in response to an earlier comment about manure: I don't think three months or even 6 months is enough time for horse manure to break down to the fertilizer stage. It usually takes many months more than that to break down completely. Or anyway that's been my experience.

[fredbram]

It is not too late to put a vegetable garden in this year. Your area is a little different than where we are (Colorado), but many of the things that you may want to grow can't go outside until the last frost date, which, I.m guessing, is in May sometime for you. Garlic, I think you put in in the fall, for harvest next year, but tomatoes, peppers, cukes, beans, squash, eggplant and more can't go in yet. It may be too late for spring lettuces and peas, but you could do a fall crop.

For your sanity (and your back!) however, you may want to create modest goals for yourself this year and expand next year.

I use much more compost in my garden than manure, but maybe others will have opinions on that. You should also check out gardenweb.com--they have garden geeks that rival the food geeks here.

[lovebenton0]

I used to have great success in my veg garden with "manure tea." Let the manure break down a bit, mixed with straw or compost. Put about 2 gallons worth in a five gallon bucket, fill with water. Let that set for a week or so. Then water well with fresh water and feed around your plants with the liquid tea. It doesn't stink, just looks like the blackest tea you've ever seen. You don't have to wait the usual 9-10 months or so that it takes the manure to break down sufficiently. I would continue to refill the water and brew more tea. Feed the plants every week or so, depending on the size of the plant; bigger plants more often, smaller no more than every two or three weeks until they grow bigger.

[chickenlady]

chickenlady,

thank you. i'm thinking crates though--since those'll be easier to fit into the trunk of a car come moving time; is a crate too shallow to be of use? the herbs i'm mostly interested in to begin with are a couple of varieties of basil, cilantro, italian parsley, mint and tarragon. i take it these would be highly container friendly. i am happy to plant some rosemary if only to thumb my nose at those greedy deer. i suppose another way to deer-proof might be to kill one of them and mount its head on a stake as a warning. mmm venison...actually, the herd in question was mostly born in our backyard years ago (as per our landlord and neighbours) and they know that they were here first. mmm lyme disease...

now, what is a cooperative extension office? and how do i find one near me.

and i may have asked this before but does your screen-name have a kids in the hall connection or are you just someone who likes poultry?

regards,

mongo

I guess the crate issue depends on the size. Are you planning to transplant to the garden once you've moved or grow all season in the crate? I've grown all the herbs you've listed in containers successfully, but you really need to make sure your container is big enough. Of those you mention, tarragon would probably need the biggest pot, but I wouldn't go less than 8" depth for any of them. Also, where are you getting your tarragon? Don't try to start it from seed--buy an already started plant and taste it first!!

Others have answered the Cooperative Extension question much more ably than I could. They are a great resource and will give you all kinds of free information. I also second the GardenWeb recommendation as a place to talk to knowledgeable plant geeks.

Chichenlady is what my neighbors call me: I have a flock of chickens that roam my backyard. They also make a daily pilgrimage to the church across the street. The neighbors all think it's cool, but the truth is that I am quite obsessed with chickens.