Need help containing cocoa butter overspray

[no10]

Does anyone have any experience with this spray booth by CakeSafe https://www.cakesafe.com/store#!/Master-Spray-Booth-Tall-Basic/p/56321024/category=15076001? The webpage states that the booth is "* Intended for use with airbrush guns appropriate for the baking industry. Not for use with high volume automotive spray guns.", which means that this booth cannot/isn't designed to handle the overspray generated by HVLP systems like the Fuji Platinum Q4. Each fan moves 650 cfm of air (which is a considerable volume of air). Can your makeshift spray booth handle the overspray generated by the Fuji Platinum Q4, @Jim D. (I think I've seen you write in another post that you have this spray system.)? @tikidoc, could you share what spray system you use?

Edited May 8, 2023 by no10 (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I have the half size of this one - I was spraying plain cocoa butter yesterday and there was a bit of an issue, in part because the front filter was probably overwhelmed already, but I have used it with the Fuji with no issue (I find the Fuji tends to result in less overspray than my other airbrushes). 

[Jim D.]

9 hours ago, no10 said:

Does anyone have any experience with this spray booth by CakeSafe https://www.cakesafe.com/store#!/Master-Spray-Booth-Tall-Basic/p/56321024/category=15076001? The webpage states that the booth is "* Intended for use with airbrush guns appropriate for the baking industry. Not for use with high volume automotive spray guns.", which means that this booth cannot/isn't designed to handle the overspray generated by HVLP systems like the Fuji Platinum Q4. Each fan moves 650 cfm of air (which is a considerable volume of air). Can your makeshift spray booth handle the overspray generated by the Fuji Platinum Q4, @Jim D. (I think I've seen you write in another post that you have this spray system.)?

 

Yes, I do have the CakeSafe spray booth, and I have been very pleased with it.  With it, very little cocoa butter gets on me (and presumably into my lungs).  Almost no c.b. is expelled by the fan into the air of the room, meaning that the various filters are absorbing it.  The one factor that I simply had to accept is that the "pre-filter" (the easily replaceable first filter) gets saturated with c.b. rather quickly and must be replaced after a few molds.  I bought a roll of filters, cut the material into pieces of the correct size with a paper cutter, and keep a stack near my spray booth.  The side panels also get covered with c.b. and require washing, demonstrating how much c.b. they are stopping from getting into the room.  The fan is quite powerful and rather noisy, but then so is a compressor or the Fuji turbine.

[no10]

That's great to hear that the spray booth can accommodate the Fuji's overspray. @Jim D., do you have a Fuji Platinum Q4 or Q5?

 

The cost associated with replacing the pre-filters is also a concern of mine. @Jim D., do you know approximately how many pre-filters you can cut from the 150 foot filter roll (I would calculate this on my own, but I don't know the dimensions of the fan's opening.)? I'm also curious about the grade number on their filters. They don't provide this information on their website unfortunately. Does anyone know the the size range of cocoa butter overspray particles? 2-6 microns, maybe?

 

Also, @Jim D.when you say the pre-filters need to be changed after spraying "a few molds", does "a few molds" mean about 3 molds? And is that what you observe when spraying with your Fuji or what you observe when using some other spray system?

 

Apologies for the many questions. I'm just trying to figure out if this spray system is monetarily sustainable.

Edited May 11, 2023 by no10 (log)

[Jim D.]

9 minutes ago, no10 said:

That's great to hear that the spray booth can accommodate the Fuji's overspray. @Jim D., do you have a Fuji Platinum Q4 or Q5?

I have the Q4.  I recently took an online course by Kalle Jungstedt, and he was praising the Q5, but it turned out that the advantage of the Q5 (that the pressure of the spray can be regulated on the machine itself) was not important--he said he regulated the pressure on the connection between hose and gun.

 

11 minutes ago, no10 said:

The cost associated with replacing the pre-filters is also a concern of mine. @Jim D., do you know approximately how many pre-filters you can cut from the 150 foot filter roll (I would calculate this on my own, but I don't know the dimensions of the fan's opening.)? I'm also curious about the grade number on their filters. They don't provide this information on their website unfortunately. Does anyone know the the size range of cocoa butter overspray particles? 2-6 microns, maybe?

The filters are about 12" square, so you can cut a lot from a roll.  It's difficult to say how fast they need to be replaced as it depends on the color you are spraying, how heavily you spray, and how much overspray the color generates (the Chef Rubber colors differ in viscosity quite a bit).  But yesterday I sprayed about 20 molds and used 3 filters.  My Grex airbrush generates less overspray than the Fuji, but you pay a price for the speed of the Fuji by using more cocoa butter.  The two inner filters are Merv8 and Merv13 (does that help you judge their effectiveness?).  The inventor of the product and co-owner of the company answers email questions about technical details, so you could write him.

 

21 minutes ago, no10 said:

Apologies for the many questions. I'm just trying to figure out if this spray system is monetarily sustainable.

No need to apologize.  I did a great deal of research before I purchased.  By the way, I have only one box and have never felt the need to add more height or width.  Did you see the video of chocolatier Sydney on the CakeSafe site?  Her enthusiasm for the product was very convincing, but I was skeptical, so I got her number from the owner of the chocolate shop where she works and had a long conversation with her.  She was just as enthusiastic on the phone as she is in the video.  She uses very few pre-filters--said something like a couple of them used for a day's work (and the shop appears to be a fairly large one), but she has a double-size booth.  I am not on the payroll of CakeSafe, but I really like the product, especially compared to the cardboard box + furnace filter + large fan I was using previously.  And I like not having to clean cocoa butter out of an exhaust fan.  Incidentally I also use a respirator (mine is made by 3M).

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, no10 said:

That's great to hear that the spray booth can accommodate the Fuji's overspray. @Jim D., do you have a Fuji Platinum Q4 or Q5?

 

The cost associated with replacing the pre-filters is also a concern of mine. @Jim D., do you know approximately how many pre-filters you can cut from the 150 foot filter roll (I would calculate this on my own, but I don't know the dimensions of the fan's opening.)? I'm also curious about the grade number on their filters. They don't provide this information on their website unfortunately. Does anyone know the the size range of cocoa butter overspray particles? 2-6 microns, maybe?

 

Also, @Jim D.when you say the pre-filters need to be changed after spraying "a few molds", does "a few molds" mean about 3 molds? And is that what you observe when spraying with your Fuji or what you observe when using some other spray system?

 

Apologies for the many questions. I'm just trying to figure out if this spray system is monetarily sustainable.

Not sure how much the roll is - but a fabric store will have non woven interfacing that is cheap as dirt to buy. 

 

Mine is the Q5 and I've played with both the Q4 at the factory and the Q5 and seem to have less overspray with the Q5 for some reason.  I lie - mine is the Q4 and the advantage was over the Q3. They didn't make the Q5 when I got mine. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Kerry Beal]

 

I have a roll of heavy white paper - a little folding and a couple of these great magnets on each side keeps the side clean and provides a spot to spray to clean out the colours. The other side doesn't seem to get dirty for some reason. 

[pastrygirl]

I just saw an ad for this portable fan/filter and immediately thought of chocolatiers who airbrush. 

 

https://theairhood.com/

 

Might help with the cocoa butter cloud?

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I just saw an ad for this portable fan/filter and immediately thought of chocolatiers who airbrush. 

 

https://theairhood.com/

 

Might help with the cocoa butter cloud?

 

 

Might - but I suspect you'd need to build an enclosure around it. And a charcoal filter would not be necessary. I'd be interested to know how noisy it might be. 

[Saltychoc]

On 9/28/2023 at 1:29 AM, pastrygirl said:

I just saw an ad for this portable fan/filter and immediately thought of chocolatiers who airbrush. 

 

https://theairhood.com/

 

Might help with the cocoa butter cloud?

 

 

 

On 9/28/2023 at 6:05 AM, Kerry Beal said:

Might - but I suspect you'd need to build an enclosure around it. And a charcoal filter would not be necessary. I'd be interested to know how noisy it might be. 

 

I have one of these and I use it sometimes. First off - if you do get it don't bother with the cordless one. The battery is not reliable so I keep it plugged in anyway. It does actually work pretty well to pull excess cocoa butter out of the air.

 

I have the pop-up tent mentioned earlier in this thread, I clip the top of it together so that it isn't as open, then I have a M8 (I think) filter and box fan on the back of the tent. I put the airhood at the front opening of the tent to pull in backspray. There is significantly less cocoa butter in the air when I use it vs when I do not. Another bonus is that all of the parts, including the mesh outer screen, are washable. They are attached with magnets and pop right off. I do use the charcoal filters, it came with a number of them, without something in the charcoal filter slot you would have to clean the inside of the fan with q-tips. Could probably just use coffee filters or cheese cloth though, I will try that tomorrow. I wear a mask and face shield when spraying and I do not have to wipe it as frequently when using the airhood.

 

It definitely has negatives - it's pretty loud on the highest setting so I wear ear plugs or muffs. You really do need to use the highest setting for it to be effective. You have to clean it between every use though it does wash up easy. To use it as the primary fan you would probably need that enclosure but as I use it mainly to keep the area directly in front of me clear that isn't an issue. When it is quieter later I will see if I can upload a gif or something with sound that shows how loud it is. With the exhaust fan, box fan, airhood, and compressor running.. sometimes my ears need a break.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Saltychoc (log)

[Anthony C]

Hi all. Have found this thread very interesting. I am in the process of moving my chocolate lab to a larger site and am reviewing my spraying / filtration set up. In my old site I used to spray in the basement, with a very basic airbrush filtration box, along with an extraction fan to outside. This was only semi-effective and still resulted in a lot of cleaning (which I enjoyed immensely)

 

My new site has no extraction so I am looking at something more effective. As I am in the Canary Islands it is quite hard to find people willing to ship here, due to somewhat difficult customs rules. The item that I am currently considering is from Chocolate World in Belgium

 

https://www.chocolateworld.be/winkel/machines/decorate/M1295

 

It's a tad expensive (over €5k, plus shipping, plus about 17% import duties). I'm currently spraying about 200 molds a month, which I am sure this unit will cope with, but is this overkill for my needs?... After all, it's a lot of money.. but then nearly everything is in the world of chocolate 🙄 Any thoughts/comments?

[pastrygirl]

@Anthony C   Is 200 molds a month 10 molds a day for 20 days or 20 molds a day for 10 days?  Seems like overkill to me, but admittedly I have a pretty strong hood fan so don't know how coated in cocoa butter my kitchen would be without it.

[Kerry Beal]

Maybe look at the Cakesafe site at one of their larger units and see if they will sell to your location. Are you 110 V 60 Hz in the Canary Islands?

 

 

[Jim D.]

@Anthony C, as you have no doubt read, I am a fan of the CakeSafe spray booth.  When I moved to my basement for CCB spraying, I considered venting to the outside.  I saw a couple of examples of such setups when the eGullet chocolate workshop was held in Las Vegas (Melissa Coppel's was one). I was impressed, but the more I thought about it, I realized that CCB crystallizes very quickly (more or less as soon as it hits a mold), so it would take an extremely powerful exhaust fan to get it out of the area before it crystallized on the sides of the vent.  If it got outside, then there is the issue of where it lands.  As you pointed out, cleaning it off the landing area (wherever it might be) is a daunting task.  The CakeSafe concept is to catch the CCB before it gets into the air, thus the various filters inside the fan box.  Yes, the first one catches most of the spray and has to be replaced rather frequently (Kerry Beal had a suggestion for reducing the cost of that).  But the device really does work.  The CCB that contains a lot of white produces the most overspray (in my experience), so some of it does get into the air around the box, but not much.  I still wear a mask, and I also use a small fan aimed at the CakeSafe booth that helps to redirect the spray back toward the CakeSafe fan (the CakeSafe people said they were going to start recommending that to customers).  For spraying I mostly use a Fujispray spray gun, and the CakeSafe fan is able to cope with its rather powerful output.

 

I have referred previously to the CakeSafe video with chocolatier Sydney.  The company where she works has a very large chocolate output daily, and she loves the CakeSafe (I spoke directly to her).  I just checked, and CakeSafe ships internationally.  It is also useful that the inventor of the spray booth is co-owner of the company and is available for more information and troubleshooting.  I use just one of the fan units, and it is quite sufficient.  My output is far less than yours, so you would need to consider that factor.  Apart from Christmas, Valentine's, and Easter, I make about 1,000 chocolates per month, which amounts to about 48 molds

 

I have no connection to CakeSafe except as a customer, but would be glad to try to answer any questions.  I'm not saying it's perfect, but it does work.

[Anthony C]

20 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

@Anthony C   Is 200 molds a month 10 molds a day for 20 days or 20 molds a day for 10 days?  Seems like overkill to me, but admittedly I have a pretty strong hood fan so don't know how coated in cocoa butter my kitchen would be without it.

Hi Pastrygirl, thanks for your reply. I usually try to limit myself to 4 days of spraying each month, as I am not a fan of it. So i do 2 days every 2 weeks, and about 50 molds on each day, depending on design. I agree that this unit might certainly be a bit over-the-top, but as my previous working life involved working with radioactivity, I pretty much work alongs the lines of better safe than sorry, and its a hard habit to break 🙄

[Anthony C]

19 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Maybe look at the Cakesafe site at one of their larger units and see if they will sell to your location. Are you 110 V 60 Hz in the Canary Islands?

 

 

Thanks Kerry. Will certainly check them out. We run on 220/230 V (depending on who you ask) and 50 Hz... though when it rains, I am usually working without any electricity. Fortunately,it only rains about 10 days a year here.

[Anthony C]

16 hours ago, Jim D. said:

@Anthony C, as you have no doubt read, I am a fan of the CakeSafe spray booth.  When I moved to my basement for CCB spraying, I considered venting to the outside.  I saw a couple of examples of such setups when the eGullet chocolate workshop was held in Las Vegas (Melissa Coppel's was one). I was impressed, but the more I thought about it, I realized that CCB crystallizes very quickly (more or less as soon as it hits a mold), so it would take an extremely powerful exhaust fan to get it out of the area before it crystallized on the sides of the vent.  If it got outside, then there is the issue of where it lands.  As you pointed out, cleaning it off the landing area (wherever it might be) is a daunting task.  The CakeSafe concept is to catch the CCB before it gets into the air, thus the various filters inside the fan box.  Yes, the first one catches most of the spray and has to be replaced rather frequently (Kerry Beal had a suggestion for reducing the cost of that).  But the device really does work.  The CCB that contains a lot of white produces the most overspray (in my experience), so some of it does get into the air around the box, but not much.  I still wear a mask, and I also use a small fan aimed at the CakeSafe booth that helps to redirect the spray back toward the CakeSafe fan (the CakeSafe people said they were going to start recommending that to customers).  For spraying I mostly use a Fujispray spray gun, and the CakeSafe fan is able to cope with its rather powerful output.

 

I have referred previously to the CakeSafe video with chocolatier Sydney.  The company where she works has a very large chocolate output daily, and she loves the CakeSafe (I spoke directly to her).  I just checked, and CakeSafe ships internationally.  It is also useful that the inventor of the spray booth is co-owner of the company and is available for more information and troubleshooting.  I use just one of the fan units, and it is quite sufficient.  My output is far less than yours, so you would need to consider that factor.  Apart from Christmas, Valentine's, and Easter, I make about 1,000 chocolates per month, which amounts to about 48 molds

 

I have no connection to CakeSafe except as a customer, but would be glad to try to answer any questions.  I'm not saying it's perfect, but it does work.

Ahhh Jim, the former scientist in me really enjoys your detailed replies to posts/questions 👍 Kerry also suggested looking at CakeSafe booth. Will be investigating them later.

 

Importing stuff here is the main issue. Plety of people say they export here but then problems arrise. Last time I ordered colours from Chef Rubber, it took 5 months to get them. Its a load of paperwork too, and now they have decided I need to pay a customs agent to submit the paperwork instead of me submitting it directly.. more time and money. Chocolate World are a bit expensive, but they ship here with no issues (yet!) and I get stuff in 5 days, which is, IMHO, a miracle for the Canary Islands.

 

I don't really fancy the idea of changing the "pre-filter" every few molds either, because I am lazy. The guy at chocolate world assures me that their filters only need changing every 2000 hours. I am sure that with my amazing technique, I can reduce that by a factor of 2 without any issue. But 5k asking price is a lot of bonbons to sell.

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone that chipped in with info/advice. Enjoy your days!

[Kerry Beal]

I’m sure for a place to stay and a plane ticket someone from eGullet it would be happy to bring it for you!

 

 

[Jim D.]

13 minutes ago, Anthony C said:

I don't really fancy the idea of changing the "pre-filter" every few molds either, because I am lazy. 

 

Just to be clear:  The pre-filter is held in place only by suction from the fan.  Changing it entails lifting off the used filter and putting a new one in place--takes maybe 5 seconds.  I am curious what sort of filter the CW device uses that can last that long. 

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Anthony C said:

about 50 molds on each day,

Yeah, that would be a pretty big cloud of CB to deal with. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

I’m sure for a place to stay and a plane ticket someone from eGullet it would be happy to bring it for you!

Hurry, my passport expires next summer!