Chipotle Mexican Grill

[chengb02]

The few times I've been to Chipotle, its been pretty good (for what it is). Typically get the pork or the chicken. Haven't been to Baja Fresh before...

[DonRocks]

The Devil has been busy.

He probably hates this Chipotle/Niman Ranch story you linked to:  buy a better product which costs more, pass the increase on to your customers, market it well, sales go through the roof, try to improve other aspects of your operation similarly.

The Devil can't win them all.

Don't forget the last few chapters of the book: skyrocketing demand requires enormous additional supply, supply becomes mass-produced, quality falls off the cliff (refer to Starbucks), consumers get finessed through brand image, chemically induced flavors and savvy marketing.

To date, the McDevil remains undefeated.

[Behemoth]

I'll piss on the party, and come right out and say it:

McDonald's!

Actually, I wish we had one of these so called Chipotle places nearby. We do have a Qdoba which I don't care for at all. The food is just not that good, period. Bland and yet somehow oversalted at the same time, just plain blah. As for the former being owned by McDonalds, hell I'd eat at McD if they started featuring Nieman Ranch & other organics, even if I didn't care for the food so much, just out of principle.

[bergerka]

I'll piss on the party, and come right out and say it:

McDonald's!

The sodium comment is noteworthy, and I do think the food lacks depth and soul, though I admit to having enjoyed it in the past.

The uncritical acceptance of Chipotle Grill in this thread is troublesome to me, but you need to remember where I'm coming from.

Cheers,

Rocks.

P.S. To avoid being labeled a nattering nabob of negativism, I enthusiastically concur with recommendations of The Well-Dressed Burrito!

Not to cause trouble, but may I ask why it's troublesome?

Yes, we ALL know McDonald's is behind it.

Yes, it's pretty easy to guess that ANY restaurant food you eat, fast or slow, unless it specifically says "low-sodium," is going to be higher in sodium to SOME degree, small or large (and, for that matter, calories, fat and sugar) than food you make at home.

However, it seems perfectly obvious that with Chipotle they are TRYING to do it right (Niman Ranch pork, very fresh ingredients, etc., etc.), and it seems to me they are succeeding so far - for what it is (a fast food burrito, not unlike those served at, say, Burritoville), the product is, IMHO, excellent. If the food starts to suck, I'll stop going there (and yes, I will know the difference). Furthermore, I know where the meat is coming from at Chipotle - which is more than I can say for the meat served at the (admittedly excellent, but too far to go for lunch from work) taco truck down the block from my apartment. Why is it wrong to eat at Chipotle, but ok to eat at the taco truck???

...mmm...taco truck...I wonder if they're out there now.

Even Eric Schlosser, in "Fast Food Nation" (specifically, in the Epilogue) suggests that it might not be the worst thing in the world for fast food giants to use their remarkable influence to advocate for safer, fresher, better ingredients and food preparation...what is Chipotle doing, if not precisely that?

So what's the problem? This seems to me an odd case of a fast-food company setting a GOOD example...shouldn't that be applauded? Furthermore, enjoying the food and appreciating the concept are not incompatible with a healthy degree of skepticism.

K

Edited to add the bit about the taco truck. Don, I'm genuinely trying to see where you're coming from, so how about posting proverbs in a language I understand? like French or something?

Edited May 13, 2004 by bergerka (log)

[DonRocks]

Doveryay, no proveryay.

-- old Russian proverb

[mnebergall]

Could someone please tell me where I can get a "non-fast food" burrito (other than at home)?

edited to add: Or a non-fast food taco for that matter?

Edited May 13, 2004 by mnebergall (log)

[Behemoth]

Doveryay, no proveryay.

-- old Russian proverb

Wouldn't they get into trouble if they advertised Nieman Ranch and instead used Tyson? I'm assuming that's what you mean by that(?)

My understanding was that organic certification has some pretty stringent requirements these days. Maybe I am really naive. One does what one can, I guess.

[bergerka]

Could someone please tell me where I can get a "non-fast food" burrito (other than at home)?

edited to add: Or a non-fast food taco for that matter?

Where do you live? And what's your definition of "fast food?"

I live in NYC, and don't consider the burritos at either Noche Mexicana or Taqueria y Fonda (or a host of other places in the city, of varying quality) to be "fast food," since the restaurants aren't chain, mass-production type restaurants.

In Glendale, Litchfield Park, and Avondale, AZ, respectively, I like La Perla (Machaca burrito, yay), Peter's Cafe, Raul and Teresa's, recently.

K

[mnebergall]

Could someone please tell me where I can get a "non-fast food" burrito (other than at home)?

edited to add: Or a non-fast food taco for that matter?

Where do you live? And what's your definition of "fast food?"

I live in NYC, and don't consider the burritos at either Noche Mexicana or Taqueria y Fonda (or a host of other places in the city, of varying quality) to be "fast food," since the restaurants aren't chain, mass-production type restaurants.

In Glendale, Litchfield Park, and Avondale, AZ, respectively, I like La Perla (Machaca burrito, yay), Peter's Cafe, Raul and Teresa's, recently.

K

How long does it take between the time you place your order and receive your food? If it takes less than 10 minutes, its fast food. I live in the DC area. One of my favorites is Guapos, and I consider them to be fast.

[JPW]

mnebergall - go to Taqueria Poblano.

Salt. I think that there are distinctions to be made. There is a big difference between the use of salt as a seasoning on a dish (although too much there can definitely hurt a meal, see the Bethesda thread for my experience at Grapeseed) and the hidden use of salt in preparing meal components.

For example, tortillas. In the local grocery store, you can get tortillas with everything from 190 mg of sodium per tortilla to 800 mg. Hard to really tell any taste difference, but the ones with higher sodium have a longer shelf life.

The fact that Chipotle's food contains a lot of hidden sodium doesn't bother me, it's that it runs so contrary to their marketing of "fresher better" ingredients. Look at a typical McD's meal (ok, what I used to eat, not so typical) - 2 double cheeseburgers and a large fries. From this I expect the 2500 mg of sodium it contains. Look at a Chipotle burrito, you don't expect it to have the same amount of sodium. If I hadn't written away to them, I never would have guessed.

As I mentioned elsewhere, to their credit they responded to me quite plainly and forthrightly - "If you're watching sodium, our food is not for you. Sorry."

I don't so worry about Chipotle quality going down as they grow, they at least have the ability to manipulate their flavor.

I'm much more worried about the quality of Niman Ranch products going down preventing me from gaining as much pleasure from the herb rub pork tenderloin I make at home as I do now.

[Steve Klc]

The fact that Chipotle's food contains a lot of hidden sodium doesn't bother me, it's that it runs so contrary to their marketing of "fresher better" ingredients.

I agree wholeheartedly JPW and that's why I'm very glad you took the time to do the legwork to bring this more out in the open. Let's hope we generate enough heat here that the Washington Post Food section will draw attention to it (in the way they drew more attention to the Bayless-Burger King story after we at eG picked that ball up.) Steve Ells, founder and chief executive of Denver-based Chipotle, should address why sodium is so integral to his pursuit of fast good food with integrity.

[lscanlon]

For me, it's Fajita Burrito with no rice, Carnitas (pork), green chili salsa, sour cream, cheese, and lettuce. Deeeelightful!

BTW, take a look at Chipotle's webite. It's funny and very creative.

[mnebergall]

mnebergall - go to Taqueria Poblano.

?Donde esta Taqueria Poblano?

[JPW]

mnebergall - go to Taqueria Poblano.

?Donde esta Taqueria Poblano?

Mt Vernon Ave in Del Ray (Alexandria) and in Arlington (can't recall exact address)

[mnebergall]

mnebergall - go to Taqueria Poblano.

?Donde esta Taqueria Poblano?

Mt Vernon Ave in Del Ray (Alexandria) and in Arlington (can't recall exact address)

It's in my neighborhood. I ate there once and was not too impressed. Only had the tacos though. Next time I should try the burritos. Actually, I prefer Los Amigos, also on Mt. Vernon.

[bergerka]

mnebergall - go to Taqueria Poblano.

Salt. I think that there are distinctions to be made. There is a big difference between the use of salt as a seasoning on a dish (although too much there can definitely hurt a meal, see the Bethesda thread for my experience at Grapeseed) and the hidden use of salt in preparing meal components.

For example, tortillas. In the local grocery store, you can get tortillas with everything from 190 mg of sodium per tortilla to 800 mg. Hard to really tell any taste difference, but the ones with higher sodium have a longer shelf life.

The fact that Chipotle's food contains a lot of hidden sodium doesn't bother me, it's that it runs so contrary to their marketing of "fresher better" ingredients. Look at a typical McD's meal (ok, what I used to eat, not so typical) - 2 double cheeseburgers and a large fries. From this I expect the 2500 mg of sodium it contains. Look at a Chipotle burrito, you don't expect it to have the same amount of sodium. If I hadn't written away to them, I never would have guessed.

As I mentioned elsewhere, to their credit they responded to me quite plainly and forthrightly - "If you're watching sodium, our food is not for you. Sorry."

I don't so worry about Chipotle quality going down as they grow, they at least have the ability to manipulate their flavor.

I'm much more worried about the quality of Niman Ranch products going down preventing me from gaining as much pleasure from the herb rub pork tenderloin I make at home as I do now.

Out of curiosity, what exactly is bad about high sodium? Unless you are one of the (very) small percentage of people whose blood pressure is sensitive to sodium, in which case you need to be avoiding fast food, anyway (don't take my word for that, ask my dad, he's a doctor).

K

[bobmac]

Had my first experience with Baja Fresh this week. Seems OK for a chain but not my first choivce. Hightlight was a nicely smoky chipotle sauce.

[slkinsey]

The fact that Chipotle's food contains a lot of hidden sodium doesn't bother me, it's that it runs so contrary to their marketing of "fresher better" ingredients.

I agree wholeheartedly JPW and that's why I'm very glad you took the time to do the legwork to bring this more out in the open. Let's hope we generate enough heat here that the Washington Post Food section will draw attention to it (in the way they drew more attention to the Bayless-Burger King story after we at eG picked that ball up.) Steve Ells, founder and chief executive of Denver-based Chipotle, should address why sodium is so integral to his pursuit of fast good food with integrity.

Interesting. Personally I think sodium is a non-issue. Some foods tend to contain a lot of salt. My experience is that braised meats (and most of the stuff at Chipotle is braised) tends to need a fair amount of salt. I've eaten at Chipotle and never found the food to be all that salty, and I can definitively say that it's not half as salty as the chorizo tacos I get at my local "authentic" Mexican-run-and-patronized taqueria, Taqueria y Fonda La Mexicana (which, I presume, would get an enthusiastic "two gullets up" from the membership here).

So, if I may indulge myself in a lttle fast-food pun, what's the beef? Do we think the food at Chipotle contains a lot of salt compared to "artisinal" tacos and burritos? Do we think the food at Chipotle contains a lot of salt compared to the food at AD/NY and Per Se? What is our basis for complaining about the sodium content? I'm not saying there might not be one, I just wonder what it is.

As for the supposed health risks associated with salt, I think Steingarten debunked that a long time ago... there is only a very small number of individuals who have the kind of hypertension that is sensitive to salt. For everyone else, go ahead and indulge.

Now... I am not suggesting that eating Chipotle 7 days a week is anyone's idea of a healthy diet. But I wouldn't suggest that about the tasting menu at Per Se either -- or any restaurant food, for that matter.

[hannnah]

The fact that Chipotle's food contains a lot of hidden sodium doesn't bother me, it's that it runs so contrary to their marketing of "fresher better" ingredients.

I still fail to understand why there's a prevailing opinion that "fresh" or "natural" or "organic" foods can't have salt in them. I'd rather have food with the right amount of salt added to flavor it during the cooking process than to try to correct the lack of saltiness at the table. That's one of the things I like about Chipotle - they're taking a good ingredient (the Niman Ranch pork) and cooking it so that it tastes good rather than worrying about an arbitrary high or low amount of salt.

They're not marketing it as macrobiotic health food. It's still fast food. It's ok if it has salt. Now, if they were implying in their marketing that the burritos are healthier than regular fast food, a la the Burger King/Bayless fiasco, then there'd be cause for complaint. As far as I can tell, though, their current marketing campaign involves intentionally bad songs about burritos, which don't mention a word about health. Or salt, for that matter.

[bergerka]

Having just returned from a Chipotle outing (it's all the fault of this thread, too), I can hereby confirm that it both TASTES good...and IS good.

So there.

K

[JennyUptown]

There is a tendency to associate "fresh" with "healthfulness." I, for one, never considered my burrito at Chipotle to be a healthy selection (but then again, I also skip the veggies in favor of sour cream and cheese!). But I didn't think of sodium and wasn't aware of the possibility of loads of sodium in the tortilla.

I have always considered myself to be fairly informed as a consumer and tend to be frustrated by people who don't ask questions (people who want to sue McDonald's for making them fat, anyone?), but in this case, I think I have missed something. Thanks for the info.

This calls to mind people who order vegetarian offerings in restaurants or delis because they think it's a uniformly healthy choice. Ha! My favorite soup at High Noon - a vegetarian corn chowder - is probably the least healthful soup there as it is thickened with feta and several other cheeses. Oh well... I'm rambling now and will stop.

[JPW]

Well all, I went back and did some screening of the old thread on sodium and wandered around some other sites looking for the most recent studies and came to the conclusion that the jury is still pretty much out. Most of the articles that I found through Medline and national medical bodies on both sides of the Atlantic say that excess sodium leads to high blood pressure (start herefor example) . I haven't completely read all of Steingarten piece or his sources, nor have I talked to your father K, so let's say that I'll just watch my sodium until I do and am convinced by the preponderance of the evidence.

No I don't think salt is necessarily bad. French fries would not be french fries without a nice sprinkling of the stuff.

No, Chipotle are not directly advertising that their stuff is healthier than McD's. I do however, feel that their PR and the media in general have done a good job of implying that "fresh" and "Food with Integrity" IS related to healthier. Just my opinion, I'd want to do a real survey/market research before claiming that many others felt that way.

Given these assumptions, I do view that Chipotle has somewhat of a problem not by having high sodium levels, but unnecessarily high sodium levels. There are no real taste difference between supermarket tortillas with 190 mg of sodium and 800mg. Why does their lime-rice need 800 mg of sodium per cup?

As several have mentioned, it's still fast food and no one should expect a Chipotle diet to be healthy.

PS- I loved the burrito when I had it, but had recently been put on medicine to treat hypertension and needed to start eating better. However, I'm hoping that better diet + more cardio exercise + having lost 18 of the 30 pounds I want to lose will allow me to eventually be weaned of the medicine and once again become drug free.

Edited May 13, 2004 by JPW (log)

[JPW]

PPS- Nor have I gone on a radically low sodium diet. That's one thing that I've seen that just about everyone agrees is bad. I just aim to stay at or somewhat below US RDA of 2400 mg.

[eljo]

Why does their lime-rice need 800 mg of sodium per cup?

Trying to put this in a non-metric context I can understand (I'm trying, I'm trying) what is the approximate equivalent in teaspoons of 800 mg of salt?

[sladeums]

Why does their lime-rice need 800 mg of sodium per cup?

Trying to put this in a non-metric context I can understand (I'm trying, I'm trying) what is the approximate equivalent in teaspoons of 800 mg of salt?

About 1/3 of a teaspoon.