Historical Sandwiches

[IndyRob]

The OED may be definitive for Oxford, but not elsewhere.

 

It turns out that the word Orient has been used very differently regionally.   But that being said, what I mentioned may be most true in Britain

 

quoth the wikipedia - In

British English, the term Oriental refers to people from East and Southeast Asia (such as those from China, Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Thailand, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Mongolia and Laos) and is not generally regarded as offensive.

 

In America, which took its lead from Britannia....

 

Distinct within American culture, some

American English speakers consider the term "Oriental" to be an antiquated, pejorative, and disparaging term. John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in U.S.A. in the 1970s. Tchen has said: "With the U.S.A. anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term 'Oriental' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."^[10] In a 2009 American press release related to legislation aimed at removing the term "oriental" from official documents of the State of New York, Governor David Paterson said: "The word 'oriental' does not describe ethnic origin, background or even race; in fact, it has deep and demeaning historical roots".^[11]

 

^{But the point is that - at that time - the definition of Oriental did not veer far from the British understanding of the time.}

[chromedome]

My best guess was that the cherries made it Oriental, 'cause Japanese cherries, right? But I guess the smilax was the pertinent detail. 

 

A couple of the others are head-scratchers, too...the Mexican sandwich is baked beans and ketchup on crackers, and the Indian sandwich is candied ginger and candied orange peel with heavy cream.

[Tri2Cook]

I have to admit I like that the raw beef with minced onions, salt and pepper is called the Cannibal Sandwich. Serve that one complete with it's official name and watch the reactions.  They should have added some raw onion to the limburger and bologna on rye and called it the Alone Time.

[IndyRob]

22 minutes ago, chromedome said:

My best guess was that the cherries made it Oriental, 'cause Japanese cherries, right? But I guess the smilax was the pertinent detail. 

 

A couple of the others are head-scratchers, too...the Mexican sandwich is baked beans and ketchup on crackers, and the Indian sandwich is candied ginger and candied orange peel with heavy cream.

 

I think we also have to take into consideration that many of our fore bearers were self aggrandizing morons with no conception of global cuisine.

 

That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed the book and all the contributions to this thread.  Snarky or otherwise.

Edited December 26, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[Tri2Cook]

4 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

 

I think we also have to take into consideration that many of our fore bearers were self aggrandizing morons with no conception of global cuisine.

 

That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed all the contributions to this thread.  Snarky or otherwise.

There are some sandwiches in the book that sound pretty tasty and some not so much. So probably on par with what we'd get with a sandwich book published today. Despite my mocking it a bit in my previous post, I'd eat that limburger and bologna on rye. I just wouldn't expect a lot of company while doing so.

[IndyRob]

400.  Four F-ing hundred.  Four Hundred Ways to Make a Sandwich.

 

I would hope that they stumbled across a few good things.

 

But, the amazing thing to me now is that - before the celeb chef thing - before TV - when printing was not such a throwaway thing that it is today - someone got 400 recipes typeset and printed, 

 

Sandwiches must've been a hot topic.

Edited December 26, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, IndyRob said:

The OED may be definitive for Oxford, but not elsewhere.

 

The OED is resolutely international and takes in all varieties of English. It has more lexicographers working in the USA than anywhere else. It is certainly NOT confined to Oxford.

 

God knows what wikipedia is definitive of. Comparing it with the OED in terms of authority is hilarious. There is a good reason why citing wikipedia as a source is banned in many academic institutions.

Edited December 26, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[IndyRob]

2 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

The OED is resolutely international and takes in all varieties of English.

In this thread, what *is* takes a back seat to what *was*.  We'll need 1909 copies of dictionaries,  And if we look through them, we'll find all sorts of hilarious errors and colloquialisms.

 

But the OED has never, and will never, rule American English.

 

 

 

[liuzhou]

2 minutes ago, IndyRob said:

In this thread, what *is* takes a back seat to what *was*.  We'll need 1909 copies of dictionaries,  And if we look through them, we'll find all sorts of hilarious errors and colloquialisms.

 

But the OED has never, and will never, rule American English.

 

 

 

 

1. The OED is a historical dictionary. It covers 1909. Its entries for 'oriental' cover from 1385 to the present.

 

2. The OED does not seek to control any variety of English but to record usage. It is descriptive, not prescriptive.

[IndyRob]

1 minute ago, liuzhou said:

 

1. The OED is a historical dictionary. It covers 1909. Its entries for 'oriental' cover from 1385 to the present.

 

 

Awesome.  That's exactly what we need.  Historical and international.  So can you look up the definition for Oriental in Massachusetts in 1909?  If it involves cream cheese, maple syrup, cherries, and lightly buttered toast, I think we will have made a major breakthrough.

[liuzhou]

1 minute ago, IndyRob said:

 

Awesome.  That's exactly what we need.  Historical and international.  So can you look up the definition for Oriental in Massachusetts in 1909?  If it involves cream cheese, maple syrup, cherries, and lightly buttered toast, I think we will have made a major breakthrough.

 

It is covered by the second definition I quoted.

 

By the way, 'oriental ' is considered offensive by many, if not most people in the UK, too.

[Martin Fisher]

The author obviously named some of her sandwiches whatever the hell she wished.....arguments over her choice of names seems like a total waste of time.

 

I did notice cannibal sandwiches, which is a sandwich my paternal grandfather frequently ate.

He did call it a cannibal sandwich but used raw sweet butter on white bread.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[IndyRob]

21 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

It is covered by the second definition I quoted.

Quote

The OED does not seek to control any variety of English but to record usage. It is descriptive, not prescriptive.

 

 

So, no it isn't really - other than to say it may have been noted,

Edited December 26, 2016 by IndyRob (log)

[IndyRob]

18 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

The author obviously named some of her sandwiches whatever the hell she wished.....arguments over her choice of names seems like a total waste of time.

 

I did notice cannibal sandwiches, which is a sandwich my paternal grandfather frequently ate.

He did call it a cannibal sandwich but used raw sweet butter, not browned.

 

 

 The French made some bank off that idea.

[liuzhou]

14 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

The author obviously named some of her sandwiches whatever the hell she wished

 

Indeed. A long standing practice.

 

For example, London Broil has absolutely nothing to do with any London I know. Few people in London would know what it is. There are many other examples. 

[suzilightning]

not long pig?