A less-sweet fondant filling?

[pastryani]

That's less sweet than the usual fondant fillings?  Silly question I know, but I'm looking to get a fruity filling and find that both caramel and chocolate-based fillings either change or mute the actual fruit flavor.  And while fondant allows the fruit flavor to come through, it's cloyingly sweet.  So is there some kind of "fondant filler" out there?

[Lisa Shock]

Have you tried white chocolate mixed with plain cocoa butter?

 

How about pate de fruit? (pectin as the filler)

[pastrygirl]

For chocolates or for cakes?  At first I was thinking cakes and was going to suggest cream cheese, but that wouldn't work for molded chocolates. 

 

Otherwise, as you know, fondant is almost entirely sugar.  I wonder if you could add glucose as bulk (either atomized or syrup) - it is still sweet, but not quite as sweet as regular sugar.  White chocolate is sweet but a little less so, especially Valrhona Opalys and Callebaut Zephyr.  A little lemon or lime juice helps boost most fruit flavors.

 

Good luck!

[pastryani]

15 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Have you tried white chocolate mixed with plain cocoa butter?

 

How about pate de fruit? (pectin as the filler)

 

Yes I've tried white chocolate (with strawberry in particular) and found a very muted fruit flavor.  Perhaps because they were fresh strawberries as opposed to a Boiron puree?  PDF would certainly deliver a fruity punch but I was thinking of something more creamy.

 

2 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

For chocolates or for cakes?  At first I was thinking cakes and was going to suggest cream cheese, but that wouldn't work for molded chocolates. 

 

Otherwise, as you know, fondant is almost entirely sugar.  I wonder if you could add glucose as bulk (either atomized or syrup) - it is still sweet, but not quite as sweet as regular sugar.  White chocolate is sweet but a little less so, especially Valrhona Opalys and Callebaut Zephyr.  A little lemon or lime juice helps boost most fruit flavors.

 

Good luck!

 

Sorry I should've specified - molded chocolate (I mostly dream of chocolates these days).    Glucose is an idea... guessing it would be some fondant, some glucose, and puree?  I'm wondering how did "Pot of Gold" used to do it with their strawberry and orange creams?  I don't remember them being outrageously sweet but then again, that was a different time and a different palate.

 

 

[pastrygirl]

8 minutes ago, pastryani said:

 

Yes I've tried white chocolate (with strawberry in particular) and found a very muted fruit flavor.  Perhaps because they were fresh strawberries as opposed to a Boiron puree?  PDF would certainly deliver a fruity punch but I was thinking of something more creamy.

 

 

Sorry I should've specified - molded chocolate (I mostly dream of chocolates these days).    Glucose is an idea... guessing it would be some fondant, some glucose, and puree?  I'm wondering how did "Pot of Gold" used to do it with their strawberry and orange creams?  I don't remember them being outrageously sweet but then again, that was a different time and a different palate.

 

 

 

No problem, I've had more cake orders than chocolate orders recently, so cake is on my mind.

 

I would cook down the strawberry puree to concentrate it, but cooking does change the flavor a bit.  A little balsamic vinegar might help too.  I'm not familiar with "pot of gold", but it is entirely possible that their flavors came from a bottle rather than fresh fruit. 

[Lisa Shock]

You can also get good flavor & color from the freeze-dried fruits. They make great nougats when whole, and if you grind them into a powder they make a water-free flavor concentrate.

 

Also, bottled flavors aren't necessarily evil, btw. I make my own extracts and liqueurs. It can often be a good way to get consistent flavor from batch to batch. (and citrus extracts are so easy to make!)

Edited September 13, 2016 by Lisa Shock (log)

[pastryani]

I've read about the wonders of freeze dried fruit here but have yet to try it!  How do you make your own extracts? (I make my own vanilla with the beans and various boozes, but how do you do that with fruit given that fruit is perishable?  Also, if you stick a few raspberries in vodka, will that make a strong enough extract?

[Lisa Shock]

Sprouts, a local grocery chain here, carries the freeze dried fruit. They're kind of a Whole Foods competitor. Amazon carries a variety from different companies. HERE is a strawberry powder, reviewers say it is very smooth and flavorful.

 

For extracts and liqueurs, I start with grain alcohol. The % of alcohol in it varies by state, some require it to be less alcoholic than others. But, it always has more alcohol in it than vodka. Vodka is at least half water and this water can impede the effects of alcohol. I discovered this years ago while making carnation liqueur; vodka did nothing after a month, everclear was lovely after a few days. My system is generally to infuse for a few days to a couple of weeks, then mix 50-50 with simple syrup for a liqueur, and just use straight for extract. Check out the liqueurs thread here on eG, you'll get a lot of tips. The toughest flavors to make, IMO, are peach/apricot and mango. (if you want to try carnation, you need to use flowers from someone's garden, the flowershop ones have been fed chemicals in their water after being cut, and those chemicals will leach into the alcohol and make it take horrible. Also, just use the flower petals, pick them off the calyxes and discard the calyx and stamens they are bitter)

 

If you are going to make strawberry extract, check your berries carefully. (they're not in season right now) The berries from the supermarket are practically flavorless, even in season, since they are bred to withstand shipping, not bred for flavor. The berries with the best flavor, IMO, are the tiny French ones. There's also a great white strawberry, but, it is rarely grown. To get those, you need to find someone growing them in their garden or a greenhouse. I belong to a local group of people who trade produce from our gardens, we have a FaceBook page. You may be able to find a similar group in your area. Barring that, look for the ripest ones you can get. The way to tell is that they will be deep red all the way to the tip. If the tip is green or white, they are not ripe.

 

The one caveat I have food-safety-wise is that really fatty foods (like bacon), when infused, may push the limits of the alcohol's solvent properties and leave behind tiny globules of fat which can support some types of bacteria. So, just because something is infused in alcohol does not mean that it's necessarily shelf stable and certainly not sterile. I think I have been ok with citrus, partly because citrus skin oils are a lot more flavorful, gram for gram, than bacon fat. So, my orange extract has less fat in it and it's all dissolved. That's also how limoncello works, and I have not heard of it going rancid or being a health risk like the warnings I see for bacon vodka. A berry extract should have better shelf life than a puree.

 

I will say that once, long, long ago, I tossed a small handful of black raspberries (really ripe ones) into a bottle of vodka and returned two weeks later to a very fragrant drink. But, vodka is just too unreliable overall for me now.

 

You can also buy some great liqueurs, I have seen some nice ones from France with fruit in the bottle and handwritten labels, but they are pricey.

[Jim D.]

For strawberry filling for chocolates, I use a recipe based on Kerry Beal's.  I find it quite flavorful, not overly sweet:

 

Melt 300g white chocolate (I use Valrhona Opalys) and 25g cocoa butter separately.  Reduce 260g strawberry purée by half, then add 75g fondant and heat.  Combine the chocolate and fondant mixture (I use an immersion blender).  Add the cocoa butter, then 8g of soft butter.  Add 1T (or to taste) kirschwasser, 1T fruit compound (more on this below), and (if needed) 1/4t citric acid.

 

Notes:  Mostly I use frozen strawberries.  They often have better flavor than fresh, especially out of season, and you can drain quite a bit of water out of them before puréeing.  I agree with pastrygirl that you lose some flavor by cooking them, but the alternative is a filling that stays too soft.  Ideally I would use strawberry eau-de-vie instead of kirsch, but I haven't been able to find it in a state with a government-run liquor business.  Fruit compounds are a bit controversial, I gather from reading.  They have a concentrated flavor that really shouts "strawberry" (or "raspberry"--though I think raspberries don't have a problem asserting their flavor).  You can buy small sample bottles from Amoretti (some of them have little resemblance to the fruit, but the strawberry, raspberry, and cherry are good).  Controversial because I'm not sure they are entirely "natural."  If you object to "unnatural" things, then you can omit it and will still get a strong strawberry flavor.  Don't be tempted to add more fruit purée; sad experience suggests that you will end up with strawberry soup.  The recipe can be used for raspberry filling as well; I don't find it necessary to reduce raspberry purée (or at least not as much as strawberry).

 

[pastryani]

Wow @Lisa Shock thanks for such a detailed description.  I didn't know that carnation extract was even a thing!  (or bacon, for that matter!)

 

Thanks @Jim D. I'll try out Kerry's recipe with frozen strawberries.  I've tried compounds before, and some are definitely better than others. (p.s - I'm always tempted to add more puree, but will heed your advice and try to control myself)

[Lisa Shock]

I got the original carnation recipe from 'Aromas and Flavors of the Past and Present' by Alice B. Toklas.

[Kerry Beal]

The MEC3 strawberry gelato flavouring paste makes a fabulous compound addition to that recipe to boost the strawberry flavour - and I sometime add some freeze dried strawberry powder to make it even better.

[pastryani]

4 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

The MEC3 strawberry gelato flavouring paste makes a fabulous compound addition to that recipe to boost the strawberry flavour - and I sometime add some freeze dried strawberry powder to make it even better.

 

I'd love to try it, but 2.5kg is way too much - too bad there isn't a sample size. 

[Lisa Shock]

Sometimes, food distributors will give samples. If you buy from one of them, call your rep and ask. Also, attending trade shows can get you a lot of free/low cost product.

[Kerry Beal]

5 hours ago, pastryani said:

 

I'd love to try it, but 2.5kg is way too much - too bad there isn't a sample size. 

I know for one of our workshops that Chocolot had some samples from them - they must be available somewhere.

[Chocolot]

2 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I know for one of our workshops that Chocolot had some samples from them - they must be available somewhere.

 

Yes. My local distributor has samples to try.

 

[Jim D.]

The MEC product looks interesting, and--for those who feel strongly about the matter--the company says it is all natural.  Amoretti is a bit vague, saying its compounds are "oftentimes loaded with real fruit." The sample-size bottles I have do not have ingredient labels.

 

Kerry, have you tried any other MEC pastes?  I see they have raspberry, mango, and passion fruit, among others.  I don't think raspberry and passion fruit really need too much boosting, but mango certainly does.

 

I have written to Pastry Chef Central to see if they have sample sizes and, if I hear back, will post the answer here.

[Jim D.]

 

4 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I have written to Pastry Chef Central to see if they have sample sizes and, if I hear back, will post the answer here.

 

I heard back, and Pastry Chef Central does not offer samples.

[Kerry Beal]

11 hours ago, Jim D. said:

The MEC product looks interesting, and--for those who feel strongly about the matter--the company says it is all natural.  Amoretti is a bit vague, saying its compounds are "oftentimes loaded with real fruit." The sample-size bottles I have do not have ingredient labels.

 

Kerry, have you tried any other MEC pastes?  I see they have raspberry, mango, and passion fruit, among others.  I don't think raspberry and passion fruit really need too much boosting, but mango certainly does.

 

I have written to Pastry Chef Central to see if they have sample sizes and, if I hear back, will post the answer here.

From the samples Chocolot had I tried a few - they are excellent!

[Jim D.]

If I knew for certain the mango is as good as Kerry says the strawberry is, I might be tempted to order some of these pastes--if others were interested in splitting containers.