Anyone use Marshmallow in Molded Chocolates?

[KennethT]

What if the cookie was coated in cocoa butter or a thin layer of chocolate to act as a moisture barrier?

[Jim D.]

That's what I meant when I said, "Covering such items with cocoa butter/chocolate is essential."

[pastrygirl]

17 hours ago, Bentley said:

That's the hard part- you have to pipe in the exact amount

Practice.  And you can always make the hole in the piping bag bigger (start small)

 

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

it worked perfectly, piping without any mess at all. But I need to make sure this will set up and also be able to replicate this with a larger batch of marshmallow--the small amount allowed the mixture to cool down to 90F rather quickly, and this won't happen with more marshmallow.

Do you know that  trick of putting warm fillings in a piping bag and mushing it around on the cool table?  You get more surface area so it cools quickly.  Works with ganache, could help with marshmallow too.

 

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

True - cookies have low water content.

Yeah, I can't really think of a cookie that would mold.  I'd avoid moister cake and brownie layers, but shortbread, sable, graham crackers etc should be safe for a long time.

 

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

mixing melted cocoa butter and melted chocolate with crushed feuilletine, then rolling this very thin between plastic sheets. When it is firm, you cut it into pieces that will fit into the mold you are using. It is very tricky

For layers like these, I temper the chocolate and pipe the mix in while still liquid.  Yes, you have to temper one more thing, but you avoid some of the other issues.  Harder to get a super thin layer, though.   I just posted a raspberry pie bonbon over on confections! what did we make?.  The pie dough layer was puff pastry scraps, baked until golden brown and mixed with white chocolate and browned butter.

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by pastrygirl
downside (log)

[Jim D.]

@pastrygirl, Thanks for the tip about "massaging" the pastry bag with ganache/marshmallow. I knew that granite countertop would come in handy someday.

 

It's funny, I think my reluctance to use cookie-like layers in a bonbon comes from a response from you a couple of years ago when I inquired about using a recipe from Ecole Chocolat using raw chocolate cookie dough. You wrote: "An airy, damp, floury thing is a good medium for yeast and mold growth.  You don't need to leave flour and water out too many days before it bubbles, so I think there is too much food for wild nasties in this recipe to keep it at room temp for more than a few days."  Of course we were discussing uncooked cookies, but somehow your answer got stuck in my mind, and I have never thought about it until this thread took a turn from marshmallows to cookies.

 

I did see your idea with puff pastry scraps. I have a lot of such scraps in my freezer, but would want to make sure they were thoroughly baked--puff pastry can be fairly moist (and tough when dry). How did your use of it turn out?

 

I think a shortbread layer would be a tasty addition to a bonbon, but I'm not sure, off the top of my head, how I would bake it to be very thin without burning it.

 

 

[Bentley]

Someone mentioned marshmallow fluff - also called marshmallow cream - which is basically marshmallow without the gelatin.  It doesn't have the same airy texture of a marshmallow, but it would definitely be easer to pipe and easier to work with in general.  Might be a good substitute for marshamallows in molded bonbons.  Might have to give it a try to see how the texture works in a chocolate. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Bentley (log)

[Jim D.]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I tried marshmallow cream. It piped beautifully if used as it comes in the jar. But it doesn't have much flavor. When I added some vanilla extract, the texture turned runny and unappetizing.

[Bentley]

I found an old Melissa Coppel recipe - not sure I am allowed to publish it.  It has a yogurt flavored marshmallow that is piped into a milk chocolate shell.  It creates a syrup at 110C added to a meringue with gelatin, whipped until fluffy then piped into the shells.  She also has on her website a recipe for lime sour cream marshmallows which are also piped into shells . That one takes the syrup to 121C.  I wonder if the higher temp is required because a small amount of lime juice is added after the marshmallow is whipped.   That recipe also uses a cookie layer.

[RobertM]

Jim, you have to coat the cookie with cocoa butter.  That keeps the water migration from the marshmallow to the cookie at a minimum.  Think of the famous cookie with caramel and chocolate....same principle.  If you don’t coat the cookie, it will absorb moisture from the marshmallow and become very soft.  Not the texture you’re looking for.

for my version of the (famous)cookie, I make a shortbread cookie, coat it with melted cocoa butter, add the caramel layer and then enrobe in chocolate!  

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I did see your idea with puff pastry scraps. I have a lot of such scraps in my freezer, but would want to make sure they were thoroughly baked--puff pastry can be fairly moist (and tough when dry). How did your use of it turn out?

 

I think a shortbread layer would be a tasty addition to a bonbon, but I'm not sure, off the top of my head, how I would bake it to be very thin without burning it.

 

It turned out ok, was a little thick, could have used a pinch of salt.  I think puff pastry is best when baked well done or at least golden brown all the way through. 

 

Funnily enough, I've been working on a cookie dough chocolate, but it's not a ganache.  It's brown sugar, brown butter, white chocolate and vanilla bean.  I could put actual cookies in it, but I think this is easier and plus keeps it wheat-free.

 

Apparently edible "raw" cookie dough is a thing now.  It is kept refrigerated, but they do note using cooked flour for safety.  https://www.cookiedonyc.com/faqs/

[RobertM]

12 hours ago, shemakeschocolate said:

May I ask how you do a cookie layer in molded chocolates? I'm still learning the ropes of all this and have struggled to understand how these layers are created. 

I made cookies a size smaller than the mould I was using.  Would “paint” them with cocoa butter.  I would decorate the mould; shell it; pipe in my marshmallow; then insert the cookie and cap the piece.  

Prior to piping the marshmallow, I took a torch to it and toasted it to give it that “s’mores” flavor.  

[Bentley]

Found this video on Instagram from Susanna Yoon of Stick with Me Sweets.  This is the holy grail of marshmallow to me.  It pipes in easily, pretty much self-levels then sets up like a marshmallow. Of course there is no hint as to how she makes it.

 

 

Here is how it sets up (it's the one of the bottom left):

 

 

If  you aren't familiar with her, check out her Instagram.  She is truly a master - her ganaches are perfect - shiny and smooth.  The insides of her bonbons are just perfection to look at.  And I have never seen anyone work so cleanly and precisely.   Plus she is a jedi-level master at piping.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Bentley (log)

[Jim D.]

I have continued my pipeable marshmallow experiments and want to report what was successful. The recipe below is based on the RecipeGullet one for strawberry marshmallows, with adaptations for piping. I have converted the measurements to grams.

 

Notes: The tricky part of the process is getting the marshmallow to a low enough temperature that it will not melt the chocolate shells but not so low that it starts to set. In practice I found that if you keep piping, that window is wider than it might seem. I suspect the heat of one's hands on the piping bag helps, and one could always give a little boost with a heat gun. A larger amount of marshmallow might present problems; therefore the amounts are half of the RecipeGullet ones. I think the reason my earlier attempts failed is taking the syrup to a higher temperature; with the 235F/113C specified here, the mixture is easily pipeable and does not leave a trail of marshmallow over the top of the mold. It is worth mentioning that the marshmallow loses its pink color as it is beaten.

 

PIPEABLE STRAWBERRY MARSHMALLOW

 

Mix 14g (2 envelopes) unflavored gelatin with 120g strawberry purée (strained to remove any pulpy parts) and (if desired) 1/8 tsp. orange flower water and (if desired) 1 tsp. strawberry compound in a small bowl and place over hot water. Make sure all the gelatin is dissolved.

 

Meanwhile put 300g sugar, 185g glucose, and 100g water in a heavy pot. [Edited 4/20/2018: From a suggestion made by Pastrypastmidnight, I now substitute 100g of strawberry purée for the water--a change that substantially enhances the fruit flavor.]  Over low to medium heat stir until the sugar is dissolved, washing down any crystals on the side of the pot. Let the sugar mixture boil until it reaches 235F/113C, then remove from the heat and allow to cool until the temperature is 212F/100C. During this time be sure to keep the gelatin mixture warm.

 

Transfer the gelatin mixture to the large bowl of a mixer with a whisk attachment, turn on the mixer, then slowly pour the syrup down the side of the bowl. Gradually increase the mixer speed to high. When the marshmallow is very thick, start testing its temperature. For piping into molds, it should fall to around 92F/33C (this assumes further cooling as it is transferred to a piping bag). Beat the mixture at slow speed while waiting for it to cool.  [Edited 5/29/2020: I now fill a large plastic bag with ice cubes and hold it against the side of the mixing bowl; it lowers the marshmallow to a pipeable temperature quickly. I have also discovered that waiting to add flavoring (vanilla, purée, etc.) until the end of the beating thins out the marshmallow enough that it pipes easily and even self-levels in the cavities. After a day of standing, it had formed a skin on top that made piping an additional layer easy. When I measured its water activity level, it was 0.78, higher than when adding flavoring earlier but still acceptable for most people.]

 

With an oiled spatula transfer the marshmallow to a piping bag and pipe into molds. The piping should be done as quickly as possible (at 86F/30C the gelatin begins to set). Allow the marshmallow to set at least 12 hours before adding a second layer or closing the mold.

 

Approximately 90-100 cavities (15g size) can be fully filled with this recipe.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jim D.
Edited to make change in ingredients (log)

[pastryani]

Jim - glad to hear you had success with this, and thanks for sharing.  Do you feel like there was enough air incorporated into the MM given that it was pipeable?  If you get a chance, it would be nice to see a cross-section of your finished product. 

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, pastryani said:

Jim - glad to hear you had success with this, and thanks for sharing.  Do you feel like there was enough air incorporated into the MM given that it was pipeable?  If you get a chance, it would be nice to see a cross-section of your finished product. 

 

I piped into empty molds (no chocolate involved) just to see if the process would work, so there is nothing meaningful to photograph yet, but when I actually use the marshmallow in a bonbon, I will cut one in half. Of course, the piping process eliminates some of the air, but there were some holes, and, to my mind, that is a small sacrifice to pay to be able to pipe the mixture into a mold.

[Jim D.]

I have now used pipeable marshmallow in a batch of chocolates. Pastryani asked how much air was incorporated. I cut a piece in half to observe, and there were very few bubbles--it's similar to the swmsweets photo above, but even fewer real bubbles. That may be my lack of skill, but I think it's primarily a function of cramming the marshmallow into a plastic bag and squeezing it into many cavities--how many bubbles could stand up to that? The taste and texture, on the other hand, are very marshmallowy, so I am pleased with this recipe. I did discover that any flavoring (I used strawberry) becomes weaker than anticipated. I paired the strawberry marshmallow layer with a kalamansi ganache, in which I deliberately removed some kalamansi, replacing it with cream so as to decrease the citrus flavor, but the strawberry was still mostly overpowered. I am concluding that marshmallow needs to stand on its own and think I will next try passion fruit, with no second layer.

[teonzo]

I would try to use cocoa butter instead of gelatin for the marshmallow as setting agent. It should be easier to pipe.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Baylee Chocolate Lady]

I have not molded a bonbon with marshmallow, but I do mold it and then dip it. Don't know if that is any help. I just play with the syrup temperature and the

amount of time I whip it to adjust the consistency. 

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, Baylee Chocolate Lady said:

I have not molded a bonbon with marshmallow, but I do mold it and then dip it. Don't know if that is any help. I just play with the syrup temperature and the

amount of time I whip it to adjust the consistency. 

That was the problem I had when I tried this option. You have to get it just right, or it's practically impossible to cut, especially on a guitar. I know lots of recipes for marshmallow say how easy they are to make, but I have not found that to be the case.

[Bentley]

On 11/16/2017 at 8:15 AM, teonzo said:

I would try to use cocoa butter instead of gelatin for the marshmallow as setting agent. It should be easier to pipe.

 

 

 

Teo

 

This is interesting.  I have never heard of cocoa butter used in  marshmallow.  Do you have a recipe you can share?

[teonzo]

5 hours ago, Bentley said:

This is interesting.  I have never heard of cocoa butter used in  marshmallow.  Do you have a recipe you can share?

 

No, I'm sorry, no recipes... Here in Italy marshmallows are still a curiosity, they are not traditional. It's hard to find the industrial ones in supermarkets, almost impossible for the artisanal version in pastry shops. I know a couple of pastry shops that started to make them after the guimauve craze in Paris some years ago (you know, there are various pastry shops here in Italy that just copy French trends with a couple years delay), but stopped after few weeks due to no sales. Never seen marshmallow used in chocolates, they would not sell here, so I have no direct experience.

I proposed to try (underscore "try") to use cocoa butter instead of gelatin just by intuition. Collagen (gelatin) starts to set around 36°C; how gelatin sets depends on the composition of the gelatin itself since there are various types of collagen involved (different types and different brands have different setting curves), it depends even on the composition of the recipe where it is used. You can have different curves (meaning some will set sooner, others later), but almost all of them will start to set at 36°C, which is above the working temperature of piping marshmallow in chocolates.This means you loose marshmallow fluidity (is "pipeability" a word?) when you reach the working temperature, this causes the troubles told in this thread.

Marshmallow is just a meringue set without drying. Traditionally the setting agent is gelatin, but since the working temperatures of gelatin cause these troubles, why not trying a different setting agent that have more friendly working temperatures for this task? Cocoa butter has the perfect temperatures for this, for obvious reasons. It should even give a more pipeable marshmallow, since melted cocoa butter is more fluid than melted gelatin.

I would pick the recipe you use for marshmallow, sub the gelatin with 5x cocoa butter (1 g of gelatin becomes 5 g of cocoa butter), whip the meringue to soft peaks (maybe stop even sooner), wait for it to reach around 50°C, melt the cocoa butter to 50°C, add a small part (around 10%-15%) of the meringue to the melted cocoa butter (it will deflate, not a big trouble), then pour slowly this mixture over the remaining meringue while folding carefully. Then wait till it reaches around 33°C, put it in the pastry bag and pipe in the molds. If I'm right you should be able to get a more pipeable marshmallow, if you work on the meringue fluidity you should be even able to get a self-leveling marshmallow, something it's impossible to get with gelatin. I suppose this is the trick used by the chocolatier linked in one of the previous posts. But it's just an idea, I can't say if it works or if it's pure idiocy, the only way to know is to try.

Of course this can work only with the egg whites / albumin version, not the one with only gelatin (at least I suppose so, maybe it could whip even with cocoa butter, after all there exists the chocolate chantilly by Hervé This).

If this works then you can sub egg whites with aquafaba and get a vegan marshmallow.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Areterri]

Melissa Coppel has a recipe for Lulo marshmallow which is piped on her website, I wonder if the puree could be substituted for something more neutral in flavor. (scroll down pass the narrative to see recipe)

 

http://www.melissacoppel.com/en/mobile/press1.html

 

Also exploring egg white or Albumin powder in place of raw egg whites -

 

http://www.sogoodmagazine.com/pastry-blog/pastry-chef-articles/marshmallows-made-with-albumin-powder-by-jordi-puigvert-in-evolution/

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Areterri (log)

[julie99nl]

Another idea, pipe a little bit of  marshmallow into small silicone  half dome molds. Just so you'd get a little dome shapes that you could pop/peal out after they had set and put them into the shelled chocolate.

Kirsten Tibballs from Savour Ausralia also does a piped marshmallow decoration for one of her entremet, but looking back at my notes it's piped at 45C.