Whence collards?

[DougL]

I'm growing collards in my (southern) garden for the first time, and they are wonderful. My question is a simple one. Why are collards considered "southern" food? As it turns out, collards in the garden are highly frost tolerant, so they'd grow well at higher latitudes. I believe that collards are certainly a Latin American food, but it appears that they are also enjoyed many places in Europe and at least western Asia. I guess prepped with bacon fat, they might have a southern flavor, but let's face it. They cook like spinach, kale, and other greens. They're wonderful in vegetable soup and stir fried. But not only are collards considered "southern" for some reason, you largely won't find them in any northern supermarket, and northerners are pretty clueless about the stuff.

 

Any collard historians out there?

[ElsieD]

I'm in Canada and I can buy them here.  The first time I had them they came in a take out order from Dinosaur BBQ in Syracuse, NY and I have been buying and cooking them ever since.  Can't get too much more northern than where we're at.

[Alex]

Interesting question, Doug. I decided to investigate, and what should I discover but the Latibah Collard Green Museum. It's about more than just collard greens, but they do have some relevant information:

 

Quote

Though greens did not originate in Africa but originated in the eastern Mediterranean, it wasn’t until the first Africans arrived in Jamestown, Virginia in the early 1600s that America got its first taste of the dark green, leafy vegetable.  The habit of eating greens that have been cooked down into a low gravy and drinking the juices from the greens (known as “pot likker”) is of African origin.

 

The collard greens were just one of a few select vegetables that African-Americans were allowed to grow and harvest for themselves and their families throughout times of enslavement, and so over the years cooked greens developed into a traditional food.

 

[blue_dolphin]

30 minutes ago, Alex said:

I decided to investigate, and what should I discover but the Latibah Collard Green Museum.

 

Very interesting, indeed!  I had no idea of that bit of collard history!  

Collards were a cool weather staple of the CSA I belonged to for the last 5 years.  I like the younger leaves but the big old ones seem to take on a flavor that I'm not fond of.

[DougL]

Thank you all. Fascinating. Interesting that you can get them in Canada. I was in Portland and Seattle and never saw them there. They are in every single supermarket in Texas though. Yes, it makes sense that they came to the New World with slaves, but it's a bit odd that their use hasn't migrated northward. As I said, they grow wonderfully in cold climates and, in fact, they'll go to seed pretty quickly when the weather warms up. Then again they may have a reputation connected to southern slavery, and perhaps as a poor man's vegetable, which may make them culturally unfavored up north.

[Tere]

Interesting. I had assumed collards were effectively the green tops of a cash or fodder root crop like turnips or manglewurzles or something hence being ok for the slaves to harvest because it was a free byproduct , but they are genetically similar to kale / Spring greens / Swiss chard apparently. Or so wiki tells me https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collard_greens

 

watching this space.

[huiray]

Collard greens are widely available in Indiana in both conventional supermarkets, greengrocers, farmers' markets and the like. I can't remember NOT seeing collards available in almost all places from time to time, and practically all the time in some.  Less available in Chinese/"Asian" markets where those places concentrate on their own kinds of vegetables, but readily available in "International" and Western Hemisphere markets (Mexican, Central American, etc). There are also hydroponic growers (some are very large scale operations) in both the Chicago and Indianapolis areas which grow collards – some year-round, some in rotation – and these are often supplied as whole plants, to a wide clientele including restaurants and the general public/certain markets, usually more etiolated and smaller-leafed than conventionally soil-grown collards where the cut leaves are usually offered. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by huiray (log)

[Wayne]

I'll add my $0.02 to the above comments.

Most grocery stores in my area carry them and have done so for as long as I've lived here.

I'll be growing them for the first time this season as their growth profile is pretty much the same as kale and I've learned how to cook them properly.

 

[ElainaA]

I see collard greens intermittently in the supermarkets here (central upstate NY). I don't use them but they are available.

Edited March 24, 2016 by ElainaA (log)

[Tere]

If they are in the kale / Swiss chard / Spring green food group I reckon they could work up to Canada for sure. Certainly worth an experimental bed if you like them

[kbjesq]

1 hour ago, Tere said:

If they are in the kale / Swiss chard / Spring green food group I reckon they could work up to Canada for sure. Certainly worth an experimental bed if you like them

Collards like a really long, hot growing season. That's why I never grew them when I lived in New England. But that was 20 yrs ago and there may be "quick collards" now for all I know. 

Here in Florida they grow like weeds but the bugs love them 

 

ETA - nevermind, I was thinking about okra. It's okra that likes a long hot growing season. We plant collards here in the subtopics in early spring and again in the fall 

Edited March 24, 2016 by kbjesq
Fix typo & add comment (log)

[DougL]

Well, let's just say that collards are considered a southern *staple*. Look it up. Not so in the north. We actually don't use them mixed with meats, as southern cuisine would have them. They are great stir fried in some oil, ending up a lot like more tasty spinach. Put some ginger and or garlic in too.  We also use them routinely as a salad green, though they are much more nutritious than most lettuce. In fact, their nutritional value is comparable in many respects to kale but, in my mind, they taste less bitter. Though they both grow well in cold weather, it's true that kale is a bit more freeze hardy, and collards are more accepting of some warmth. I just find it surprising that such a good vegetable is considered "southern" as in, it doesn't really belong in the mouths of northerners except those who want to "go southern". It sounds, however, like collards are indeed successfully moving north in some areas.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Yeah, collard greens are known as a southern dish (soul food) although they like cooler weather like kale. If I were growing my own, I might be able to pick them younger and like them better than the mature ones available commercially here. I used to grow my own kale and loved it cooked like spinach. It was mild and tender.

 

I don't have much use for commercially available kale or collards. I don't like long-boiled veggies, and to get any tenderness out of either vegetable, this is necessary. I have found a way to make commercial kale delicious though, and that's to toss it with a little oil, salt and pepper, and roast until crispy like chips. That's delicious.

 

I'm even more intrigued by a popular appetizer that appears on the menu of the Chef and the Farmer restaurant in Kinston, NC. It's run by Vivian Howard and her husband, Benjamin Knight. Kinston is just a town with less than 22,000 population, but they have managed to turn The Chef and the Farmer into sort of a destination restaurant, and it's expensive. Vivian flash fries collards, and people rave about them. She's a finalist this year for a James Beard award, I think for her appearances on PBS's "A Chef's Life".

 

I wonder if this would work with the roasting technique, and I'm going to try it next time I run across collards.

 

They are cheap here, if overgrown, IMO. They are de rigueur at holiday meals in many North Carolina families white or black.

[huiray]

2 hours ago, Thanks for the Crepes said:

I don't like long-boiled veggies, and to get any tenderness out of either vegetable, this is necessary.

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/144231-and-how-do-you-like-it-cooked/?do=findComment&comment=1903966 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/73083-collard-greens/?do=findComment&comment=2030773 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by huiray (log)

[liuzhou]

Many foods are associated with certain cuisines and I understand that is the case with collards and the southern US states. However that doesn't have to mean that is where they originated.

 

It is hard to imagine Italian food without tomatoes, for example, yet they certainly didn't originate there. Closer to (my) home, Sichuan food without chillies peppers? Impossible, yet they too are from far away and only introduced relatively recently.

 

Ireland and potatoes?

Edited March 24, 2016 by liuzhou (log)

[Thanks for the Crepes]

41 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

Many foods are associated with certain cuisines and I understand that is the case with collards and the southern Us states. However that doesn't have to mean that is where they originated.

 

It is hard to imagine Italian food without tomatoes, for example, yet they certainly didn't originated there. Closer to (my) home, Sichuan food with out chillies peppers? Impossible, yet they too are from far away and only introduced relatively recently. Ireland and potatoes?

 

Yes, and isn't it lovely that all the good stuff is spreading now at an exponential rate? Some mourn the loss of authentic and isolated cuisines. I celebrate that it's so easy to share good foodstuffs and methods of cooking. 

 

It's too bad that McDonald's and ilk are spreading at that rate too. 

[Wayne]

 

I've been growing kale for quite a few years and plan to apply that experience to growing collards. They do have very similar cultivation profiles. Kale can be planted 4 weeks before the last frost date (mid-May in my part of the world) and takes about 8 until I can start harvesting. The trick is to harvest the lowest (most mature) 3-4 leaves from each plant and do so every 5-10 days (depending on the growth of the plant). That way you get the leaves before they get too tough and fibrous and you can continue to harvest until the plant freezes solid . Most of it ends up in the freezer (lots of caldo verde through the winter). By late fall the plants look like palm trees with 2-3 feet of bare stalk with a cluster of leaves on top foot of stalk.

 

I've also had success growing okra (Clemson Spineless (a short season variety)).

 

 

 

[DougL]

Just a basic stir fry of the collards leaves them quite tender. I don't associate "long cooking" with collards at all. Unless maybe you're trying to render the thick central stem more edible? But virtually all recipes for collards call for that stem to be trimmed away.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that collards originated in the southern U.S. They were brought over from Europe. But I'm wondering what other vegetables are a local "staple" that actually grow better somewhere else.

[Beebs]

Yup, you can find them up here in the Vancouver area.  I've seen them at some of the organic Whole Foods-type places, and they're usually available at farmers' markets.  Less so in regular big box supermarkets where kale, chard, gai lan, other Asian greens are more popular. I've also received them in a CSA box once.  I made it into the Portuguese caldo verde soup - very delicious.

[willowen]

They're readily available here in L.A. County. I always see them at Ralphs, our area's Kroger affiliate, but I've seen them in farmer's markets too. Mrs. O was resistant to eating greens when we first met, but a memorable meal a friend made for us of potatoes, collards and fresh pork sausages cooked in the oven together got her rapt attention. 

 

The only problem I have with them now is that they are better with some meat, and as I'm now the only carnivore in the house (the cats don't count!) I hardly ever cook them, though they would be nice just well seasoned and braised. Plus, as is the case with Beebs in Vancouver, I'm on the edge of the San Gabriel Valley with its very heavy Asian population, and 99 Ranch and the other Asian chains of course focus on Asian greens. But we have both Latino and Armenian markets too … so if I've been neglecting collards, it's just a matter of finding time to cook everything that catches my fancy!

[blue_dolphin]

From this segment, on Evan Kleiman's Good Food podcast, I learned that there is an Heirloom Collard Project and that next week, beginning Dec 14, is 2020 Collard Week with a variety of presentations scheduled:

 

Quote

COLLARD WEEK SCHEDULE

Monday December 14, 1 PM EST – Michael Twitty presents the History and Significance of Collards in the South

Tuesday December 15, 1 PM EST [Part I] – Ira Wallce & Co. present Results and Updates from the 2020 HEIRLOOM COLLARDS TRIAL

Tuesday December 15, 2 PM EST [Part II] – Jon Jackson leads a Collard Trial Farm Tour of Comfort Farms

Wednesday December 16, 1 PM EST – Amirah Mitchell presents Seedkeeping and Cultural Identity

Thursday December 17, 1 PM EST – Ashleigh Shanti presents a 4-Way Collard Salad Cooking Demo

Thursday December 17, 7PM EST – Join us for a celebration of collards during Collard Happy Hour!

 

I'm guessing that these presentations will end up archived on the Culinary Breeding Network's YouTube channel as I see that recent Garlic Week and Radicchio Week sessions are there.

[heidih]

12 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

From this segment, on Evan Kleiman's Good Food podcast, I learned that there is an Heirloom Collard Project and that next week, beginning Dec 14, is 2020 Collard Week with a variety of presentations scheduled:

 

 

I'm guessing that these presentations will end up archived on the Culinary Breeding Network's YouTube channel as I see that recent Garlic Week and Radicchio Week sessions are there.

 

Yes! There is a great interview with Chris Smith here. Passionate  guy. I am a fan of collards.  https://awaytogarden.com/tuning-in-to-heirloom-collards-with-chris-smith/

Edited December 13, 2020 by heidih (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Wherefore collards?

 

[heidih]

4 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Wherefore collards?

 

We are all different.  Some of us crave them. A favorite memory of mine is a young man at the farmers market just before New Years, having been sent by his mom and aunties to get the 3 greens she needed - collards, mustard, and turnip. He was getting confused so the shoppers and vendors took him in hand. We are talking luck for the New Year 2021  - we will need it

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, heidih said:

We are all different.  Some of us crave them. A favorite memory of mine is a young man at the farmers market just before New Years, having been sent by his mom and aunties to get the 3 greens she needed - collards, mustard, and turnip. He was getting confused so the shoppers and vendors took him in hand. We are talking luck for the New Year 2021  - we will need it

 

To my knowledge I have never tasted collards.  I might even like them.