Sharpening angle

[bonkboo]

What angle should I set the angle on my sharpener for my Global?  

[rotuts]

i have this and other globals, plus a lot of Granton knives from England

 

i have the edge pro, and i spoke w the owner, Ben about both sets of knives.

 

he things 15 degrees is fine for both types.

 

he does say this is for 'light work'.

 

as important as the angle is, consider your cutting board , your knives best friend

 

i love these :

 

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be sure to take your coupon !

[bonkboo]

Thanks rotuts.  I have a Boos board, that I love, occupying space on the counter.  

 

I will ill go with 15 degrees.  

[mgaretz]

I use the technique from Chad Ward of marking the edge with a sharpie and then finding the angle that already exists. Saves a lot of metal and time. 

[AlaMoi]

with the EdgePro on a batch of Wuesthof I use 15' for slicers and santuko - but I've found it too acute for the chef knifes.  the chefs get a lot more brute work - the 15' does not hold for long, and then the second bummer, the edge fatigues quicker on steeling and I get small chip outs....

[daveb]

I was taught early that a consistent angle is more important than an absolute angle.  +1 to the sharpie and finding the angle the knife "wants" to be sharpened.

 

Better to thin the soft Germans (and Globals) some and leave them with a 20ish angle.  The more robust edge will cut better and last longer.

 

And of course friends don't let friends use Edge Pro's.

 

 

[bonkboo]

Not totally sure how to do the Sharpie method.  Can someone help?

 

Also, what's the problem with EdgePro systems?

[rotuts]

all posts here are interesing

 

however, 

 

""   does not hold for long ""

 

your cutting board might be 'Pretty'  Ive made a Zillion over the years w birds eye maple etc

 

but  your knife's best friend, and there for yours is the cutting board

 

try the BB&B  Ive suggested

 

i put those boards over my beautiful hand made boards Ive made my self.

 

Its like  Click and Clack

 

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

""the Sharpie method''

 

Edgepro web site has a video

 

you mark the bevel on your knife w a sharpie, then find the angle on the EP that completely removes it

 

that's the current angle on your blade, which of course you can change

[AlaMoi]

12 hours ago, rotuts said:

all posts here are interesing

 

however, 

 

""   does not hold for long ""

 

your cutting board might be 'Pretty'  Ive made a Zillion over the years w birds eye maple etc

 

but  your knife's best friend, and there for yours is the cutting board

 

try the BB&B  Ive suggested

 

i put those boards over my beautiful hand made boards Ive made my self.

 

Its like  Click and Clack

 

 

 

 

I actually can't make any sense of this, if you were intending to address my post.

I have a 15 x22 inch edge grain maple.  it's quite fine, thank you.

I have found through personal experience doing my own sharpening that 15' on my chefs knives wears down in about 2 months; long on the less used 10", faster on the 8" and 6"

at 21' they keep an edge that is easily maintained with that OMG grooved steel for 6-9 months.

 

your mileage may vary.

and there is nothing wrong with an EdgePro.  I sharpened free hand for years - and the EdgePro allows me to maintain a seriously more consistent angle - which I find a significant advantage.  I do not spent three days getting into my Zen before picking up the knife,,,,

[rotuts]

edges remain sharp longer on the poly boards, that all.

 

and BTW Im the biggest fan of all for the EP

 

they turned my globals from so-so  with experienced free hand sharpening to 

 

magnificent cutting tools that are a joy to use.

 

I got the EP specifically for the globals after reading extensive reviews on KnifeForum

 

EP changed all my knives ver much for the better and well worth the price  in my hands

Edited January 13, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[AlaMoi]

I don't care for the poly boards.  they "catch" my edge too much.

 

now.... catching a edge on skis with the resultant face plant is one thing.  face planting with a knife is much more serious, usually involves more blood.

[rotuts]

something might be wrong w your technique

 

note:  ' might '

[dcarch]

You don't need a very sharp knife in the kitchen for most cutting. A relatively sharp (not dull) knife is good enough.

 

Keep two knives. One very sharp (for sushi?) for when you really need to do precision slicing,  and one not dull knife for chopping.

 

You will not need to sharpen your knives for a very long time.

 

The sharper the knife, the quicker it gets dull.

 

dcarch

[rotuts]

it becomes difficult to understand what   ' a very sharp knife ' is compared to a ' not dull knife ' is  vis The Kiitchen.

 

but I understand your points.   there is indeed a knife that is unnecessarily sharp.  

 

however, I can feel when a knife 'effortlessly' does it's job.  there subtle vibrations you feel in your hand and indeed sometimes hear.

 

not of course, when the Disco Music is on.

 

that's what the EP brings to me in my hands.  and that's the point I aim for.

 

Oddly, Disco and some preps go hand in hand.   with a good powered Subwoofer.

Edited January 14, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[bonkboo]

dcarch, how would you define relatively sharp?  I did a few passes with the EdgePro but didn't feel overly sharp when testing with my finger across the blade. 

[AlaMoi]

how sharp?

 

here's my / an age old old ancient approach:

hold the knife perpendicular to a fingernail, scrape the nail.  if the edge does not scrape off some fingernail, tain't sharp enough.

 

there are knife nuts that spend hours and hours putting a finer than razor edge on a knife.  I don't know why, unless it's just to prove they can.  rotuts hit it square on the head:  ". . . when a knife 'effortlessly' does it's job. "

[paulraphael]

Sharp is a complex topic. There are a few factors that determine how well a blade will cut, and these vary a bit with different kinds of food. Descriptions like "effortless" don't help much, because one person's effortless is another person's dull. A Japanese Kaiseki chef does not think your western chef's knife cuts effortlessly, no matter how you sharpen it. 

 

The three biggest factors are the actual fineness of the edge (which you could see with a microscope—how infinitesimally small is the edge formed by the two bevels?), the degree of polish, the bevel angle, and thinness of the blade several millimeters behind the edge. 

 

The fineness of the edge is determined by how good a job you do sharpening, and is ultimately limited by the type of steel used in the blade. Here, finer is simply better no matter what.

 

The degree of polish is determined by how good a job you do sharpening, and is limited by the grit level of your finest stone. In general, a highly polished edge cuts most effectively. However, a very rough edge cuts better than a semi-polished edge. This is one reason a lot of people doing rougher work (like butchery) prefer to use a coarse, toothy edge than a polished one. A toothy edge can also be maintained quickly on a steel, while a polished edge is best touched up on a stone or strop.

 

Bevel angle and thinness are closely related. The more acute the angle, and the longer the bevel (which add up to a thinner edge), the more easily the knife will fall through foods. Especially rigid foods. A thick blade will wedge in food like carrots or watermelon no matter how fine the edge. The tradeoff here is durability. The more acute the bevel angles and the thinner the blade, the more fragile it will be. The best knife steels have more edge stability and go thinner with less compromise. But in the end, you have to choose some balance between performance and durability. If you want the highest performance, you have to buy a thin knife made with an appropriate steel, and you have to learn the appropriate sharpening and cutting techniques. 

 

Most knives are sold with very obtuse, sturdy edges. They're meant to be home-cook-proof. If you have careful technique, most can be modified with somewhat more acute bevel angles. But it will take some experience and trial and error to figure out how far you can comfortably go. 

 

No matter what, you must become well-versed in removing the wire edge. If you don't do this rigorously, all your edges will dull prematurely. This can be especially challenging with some of the gummier alloys, like the ones used in Global knives. It tends to be easy with carbon steel.

 

In the end, the only real test is cutting. Nothing you do with a fingernail or with newsprint is going to tell you everything about the blade's performance or its durability.

 

[AlaMoi]

"Descriptions like "effortless" don't help much, because one person's effortless is another person's dull. "

 

I quite disagree.  for exactly the reason you give:  a 850 pound Superman has a different definition of "effort" than the 98 pound weakling.

 

so, if the thing cuts effortless for you, it's sharp enough.

[paulraphael]

6 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

so, if the thing cuts effortless for you, it's sharp enough.

 

I understand the sentiment. But what if you cut using techniques that evolved to compensate for not-very-sharp knives? And you judge the results good because you have nothing better to compare them to?

 

If someone were to hand you a much sharper knife and teaches you the techniques that such a knife enables, your ideas of "sharp" (and "effortless") will be changed, and you'll be able to do things in the kitchen that you weren't able to previously.

 

Personally, I learned knife skills and sharpening skills, discovered better ones, and started over from scratch—three times.

 

Point being: beware any standards that are based on limited experience.

[dcarch]

On 1/14/2016 at 1:59 PM, bonkboo said:

dcarch, how would you define relatively sharp?  I did a few passes with the EdgePro but didn't feel overly sharp when testing with my finger across the blade. 

 

It's all relative.

Depending on your cutting style (habit), food you most often use, your cutting board material --------.

Start with a blunt angle. If you don't feel comfortable with that angle, then try sharpening at a more acute angle, ---- until it feels good for you.

 

dcarch