Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Which reminds me, earlier in this thread I did a cooked milk tasting experiment at paulraphael's suggestion.  The idea of "cooked milk taste" at much less than boiling temperature is nonsense and a non-issue.

 

The corollary to this is that boiling milk for ice cream is a bad idea.

 

Again, this has nothing to say about resulting texture.

[paulraphael]

I was surprised to discover this, not just because of all the lore, but because Jeni Britton Bauer (of Jeni's Splendid) cooks her base at 75C for something like 90 minutes, saying she likes the flavor of cooked milk ... which she describes as sweeter. Possibly this is a marketing statement. Her other reason for the long cook is turning milk proteins into stabilizers and emulsifiers. 

 

I'm playing around with this idea also. So far I haven't noticed a textural differences with different amounts of cooking. But Jeni must be on to something, since she uses neither eggs nor hydrocolloids in her mix. 

 

[edited to add: cooked egg flavor is likely a different story. My tests weren't designed to learn anything about this, since I use so little egg. But for anyone making a more traditional french style ice cream (4 or more yolks per 1000g) it may be worth testing. However ... with this much egg, you're already getting a lot of stabilization and emulsification from the custard and lecithin.]

Edited November 17, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[ErnDiggity]

Hi fellow scoopers - Long time reader / first time poster!

 

I was wondering how you guys used the ice cream calculator for recipes that involve adding a large qty of non dairy into the mixture (canned pumpkin, fruit purees, etc) ?

 

For Thanksgiving, I attempted to prepare a Pumpkin ice cream w/ a Honey Molasses Swirl but the ice cream came out too firm w/ it being difficult to scoop and chunky - (I think it needed more sugar / possibly more stabilizer?) 

 

Recipe adopted from a Williams Sonoma one found here:

                http://www.williams-sonoma.com/recipe/pumpkin-ice-cream.html

and idea for honey molasses swirl found here:

                http://www.adventures-in-cooking.com/2013/12/pumpkin-ice-cream-with-gingersnap-honey.html

 

Instead of using the heavy cream / sugar / yolks recommended on the site, I utilized the numbers that JoNorvelleWalker had been using to arrive at a recipe of

 

1 cup (244g pumpkin puree + tblspn vanilla paste - reserve

-----

1000g heavy whipping cream

112 brown sugar (subtracted 8 due to 8g sugar content in puree is this an equal substitute to white?)

6 yolks

1/2 tsp cinnamon

1/2 tsp ginger

pinch nutmeg

pinch salt

5g Cremodan to help offset puree

 

Swirl

--------

1/4 cup honey

1/4 cup dark karo

 

I have adopted the RuebenPorto method with my Thermomix just like JoNorvelleWalker has done w/ her KitchenAid Heating Mixer.

 

To prepare:

I mixed the base contents in a Thermomix @ 80C setting for an hour (instant thermometer reads 69-73 so it's pretty on point) and had a reduction in base of about 80-90g.  I then used an immersion blender to homogenize for 5 minutes before chilling in an ice bath.  I aged for about a day before adding the reserved puree mixture and churning in my Musso Pola for about 9-10m.

 

For the swirl, I used some honey and some dark karo corn syrup (as I could not source the gingersnap liqueur in time).  That turned out okay but froze a bit into a hardened block - will try w/ the liqueur next time for a similar swirl to see what happens.

 

 

About me:

Total cookbook junkie - have made or attempted ice cream recipes from Fat Duck, Frozen Desserts, Sweet Cream and Sugar Cones, Jeni's Splendid, Lebowitz's Perfect Scoop.  Incidentally have also made recipes from Rueben's IceCreamScience blog and PaulRaphael's Vanilla base (didn't realize till I saw the underbelly link), and currently working with JoNorvelle's recipe!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My thoughts are that the puree must have a fair amount of water.  You would probably need more sugar to prevent the ice cream from hardening so much.  Also the alcohol in the bourbon from the linked WS recipe would help keep the ice cream soft.

[ErnDiggity]

Would 1 Tblspoon of alcohol have had that much effect on the base to counteract freezing?  Moreso than the stabilizer that I added? 

 

I still have some remaining so I'm going to try to melt the entire batch down (honey/molasses syrup) included to see if I can reduce remaining water content / melt in sugar content and see if that rescues it.  I'll know in the future to heat up the puree to remove water content and possibly recompensate w/ more sugar.  I had really great luck w/ the base recipe to make a Cranberries and Cream batch for another Thanksgiving party that turned out to be a hit!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Compared to glycerides, ethanol is a small molecule.  It tastes better too.

 

I may be wrong, never having tried it, but I don't think Cremodan does much for freezing point depression.  Seriously, I'd increase the sugar till you get the sweetness that you like, then add bourbon or your ethanol of choice.  I doubt it would take more than three tablespoons at most.

 

Also I'd add the alcohol just before spinning, not while the mix is cooking.  I used to rely on alcohol for freezing point depression before I discovered Ruben's method.  Now alcohol makes my ice cream too soft.  But you have all that water in the puree to counteract.

[paulraphael]

Alcohol does soften ice cream at a given temperature, but it doesn't help texture in any other way, and can actually promote iciness. I think it's better to use sugars and other dissolved solids to control freezing point. If the sweetness level is where you want it, just substitute dextrose for a portion of the sugar. Between table sugar, dextrose (less sweet, greater freezing suppression) and trimoline (sweeter, greater freezing suppression) you can finagle any combination of sweetness and hardness. (As Jo said, stabilizers do not affect freezing point).

 

Milk solids are generally important ... they suppress freezing point, add body, and encourage a smoother texture by a number of mechanisms. Solids content is traditionally increased by adding nonfat dry milk, although people here have been experimenting with reducing the milk themselves. 

 

If you have a lot of solids from another source, like a puree or nut paste you can compensate by reducing the milk solids. Of course things like pumpkin puree add water, also. It's important to take into account the added water as well as the added solids so you don't completely mess up the texture.

 

I've been playing with nut butter ice creams. These add a lot of solids and a lot of fats, so I'm compensating by eliminating cream, and by eliminating dry milk (not sure how the final recipes will be, but probably in that direction).

 

I'd suggest with the pumpkin puree that if you're making it yourself, you cook it by roasting, so it will have as low a water content as possible.

Edited December 4, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[Jim D.]

There have been a few mentions of salted and/or burnt caramel ice cream in this thread, but no actual details on how to make it.  I want to use Ruben Porto's basic recipe and method.  I assume the amount of sugar would have to be adjusted downward, as would the amount of liquid, but I don't know how to go about this.  David Lebovitz has a recipe that he says is great, but fitting his method and ingredients into Ruben's is the issue.  I think I would start by substituting the (liquid) caramel for some of the sugar in the recipe (though "burnt" caramel would not be as sweet as ordinary sugar).  And because there is still some water left in caramel, substitute the caramel for some of the nonfat milk (which is mostly water)?  You can see the dilemma.  Any help would be appreciated.

[Ruben Porto]

Hi there Jim!

 

There is indeed a recipe for salted caramel ice cream on the blog http://icecreamscience.com/homemade-salted-caramel-ice-cream-recipe/

I haven't had time to install a 'next page' button on my recipes page so you can't see all of the recipes yet. I'll be updating the blog over the next couple of months.

 

I'd recommend using the recipe and quantities from my vanilla bean ice cream recipe but follow the instructions on the salted caramel recipe for the caramel part.

 

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

All the best,

 

Ruben 

[Jim D.]

Thanks, Ruben.  I was beginning to think I had lost my mind--not finding the caramel recipe that I knew I had seen.  You have now made a major contribution to my Christmas dinner.

 

Jim

[Ruben Porto]

No problem. The pressure is on for the recipe to deliver!

 

Do let me know if you need a hand with anything.

 

Merry Christmas to you,

 

Ruben 

[timpoblete]

Made a mac & cheese flavor today, using Ruben's method (magnetic spinning hot plate)  and 100g of cheese mix per standard ice cream mix. Turned out like ice cream cheese whiz. Will try it on some Ritz crackers tomorrow.

 

 

[Chris Hennes]

Reminds me of the Bearnaise gelato from Modernist Cuisine. My brain really struggled with that flavor as an ice cream.

[Jim D.]

Ruben,

I just finished churning the salted caramel ice cream.  It has a wonderful flavor.  I did have to make a last-minute adjustment:  I was so conscious of getting the caramel dark enough that I went just a second or two beyond the correct point.  After I had heated the mix and then chilled it, I did a taste test, and the flavor was definitely too far on the burnt side (though not by a huge amount).  So I heated a small amount of cream and dissolved some brown sugar in it, cooled that, then added it to the caramel mix.  I know that I was throwing off the fat content and the proportions of the recipe a bit, but I thought it was better to take that chance rather than have ice cream that people would not like.  After churning, it appears that the added sweetness of the brown sugar and the slight diluting of the caramel taste with the added cream worked.  I'll be more restrained in caramelizing the sugar next time.

 

I should add that there is a wonderful ice cream shop in Cambridge, Massachusetts (Toscanini's), that sells "burnt caramel" ice cream (delicious with an apple dessert), and their flavor is so far on the burnt side that they would probably have found my final product quite bland, but I know my audience for the ice cream I made.

 

The heating/evaporation process took a long time.  I must find a 9" pot in which to do the heating (mine is 8").

 

Jim

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, Jim D. said:

The heating/evaporation process took a long time.  I must find a 9" pot in which to do the heating (mine is 8").

 

There is a solution.

 

Note that howsoever you speed up the evaporation process you still need to cook long enough for pasteurization*.  This time seems to vary from country to country.  For the US see time/temperature table in Modernist Cuisine vol 1.

 

*Does not apply if you're not producing ice cream commercially and don't care for your family much.

[Jim D.]

 

About the KitchenAid attachment:  I read the linked thread but ended up somewhat confused.  First, what KitchenAid mixer models are actually compatible?  I have a tilt-head mixer.  Williams-Sonoma specifies "Compatible with KitchenAid Artisan, Metallic Series and Design Series tilt-head mixers," but the KitchenAid site states "Fits all Tilt-Head Stand Mixers models, or as a standalone unit."  I suppose I could order directly from KA and (perhaps) settle the question.  Second concern:  In that other thread, the overall assessment of the attachment (I'm speaking of using it for making Ruben Porto's ice cream) was not all that positive.  JoNorvelleWalker said the temp was quite a few degrees off from where it was set and that it dropped a lot when the lid was removed.  I'm assuming the lid can stay on while doing the evaporation procedure, but does the evaporation happen with the lid off?  It would seem necessary to remove the lid from time to time to check the mixture.  And how does one know when enough evaporation has taken place without removing the whole attachment and weighing it (as the Ruben process describes when using a pot on the stove)?  I'm sure the temp drop quite a lot if this happened very often.  Forgive me if I am missing something obvious.  Any help would be appreciated.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

There are two models of the Precise Heat Mixing Bowl -- one for bowl lift mixers and one for tilt head mixers.  I have the bowl lift model.  William Sonoma is where I bought mine.  WS has a good return policy as I recall.

 

Measuring the percent reduction by weight is something I cannot do with my current setup.  Not that I wouldn't like to.  However once you get the variables figured out, cooking in the PHMB is reproducible.  The variables are temperature, time, and mixing speed.  (Neglecting ambient temperature, relative humidity, and I suppose atmospheric pressure.)

 

Ruben's method fixes the temperature, so the variables are then time and mixing speed.  Once the proper reduction is achieved the recipe result can be repeated over and over without thinking about it.

 

Here is what I'm doing:  I heat the ingredients quickly on the stove (in a pot, not the PHMB) to 160 deg F (this takes about 10 minutes).  I pour the mixture into the preheated PHMB set to 198 deg F, and mount the PHMB on the mixer, set at speed 4 with the wire whisk, and cook for one hour -- completely hands free and unattended.  The mix stays at 160 deg F.  This is all with the lid off, of course, if that was not clear.

 

After the cooking is completed I homogenize and chill the mix in an ice bath as normal.

 

 

Edit:  it may be possible to skip the stovetop step and do all the cooking in the PHMB but I haven't tried this yet.  I'm sure it will take longer to come to 160 deg F.

Edited December 25, 2015 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[Jim D.]

Thanks for the helpful reply.  Are you using Ruben's original recipe that called for heating for one hour rather than the newer version?  The amount of the ingredients varies in the two versions, and he is now replacing the older recipes on his website.  So you assume the evaporation is what it should be after an hour in the PHMB?  Is there any practical way of weighing the PHMB + mix to be certain?  For instance, how heavy and how easily removable is the PHMB?  Would the temp plummet during the weighing so as to make this impractical?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I'm using a lot higher butterfat than what Ruben's recipes call for, but, yes, I started off with his original one hour method with no added milk solids.

 

The PHMB is quite light, lighter by far than the Le Creuset I was using previously.  It is as easy to remove as a normal KitchenAid bowl.  I wouldn't say the temperature would plummet but it might go down a little.  Unfortunately my scale goes only up to 300 grams.  (Hangs head in shame.)

 

In my case the mixing time is based on the quality of the resulting ice cream.  Longer times made the ice cream slightly softer than I would like.  I might even go shorter, keeping in mind again pasteurization.

[Ruben Porto]

Hi Jim!

 

Good to hear the salted caramel turned out well after some slight tinkering. I've heard of Toscanini's burnt caramel flavour but just can't imagine it being all that nice. I'll have to give it a go the next time I'm over the other side of the pond.

 

Have you tried the new 25 minute heating recipes on the blog Jim? Jo and Jim, have you looked into using a magnetic stirring hot plate to heat and stir your mixes? I think we already spoke about this Jo if my memory serves me well. There are some used hot plates on e-bay by IKA that are good. 

 

Merry Christmas to all.

 

Ruben

[Jim D.]

Have you tried the new 25 minute heating recipes on the blog Jim? 

==========

Yes, that is the recipe I use.  Remember, you suggested I use the caramel ingredients but the 25-minute vanilla technique?  The problem is that it took over an hour to reach the target weight for the caramel.  All of the other recipes have taken about 45 minutes, except when I used a (non-stick) wok for heating--it was much wider and cut the time dramatically.  But with the wok I could not use my probe thermometer from Thermapen that I bought specially for this purpose--the sloping sides of the pot didn't allow the probe to be beneath the surface of the mix.  I am now looking for a 9-inch pot (stupidly I used my 9-inch enamel pot for making no-knead bread, and the high heat has ruined it for anything else).

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 minutes ago, Ruben Porto said:

Hi Jim!

 

Good to hear the salted caramel turned out well after some slight tinkering. I've heard of Toscanini's burnt caramel flavour but just can't imagine it being all that nice. I'll have to give it a go the next time I'm over the other side of the pond.

 

Have you tried the new 25 minute heating recipes on the blog Jim? Jo and Jim, have you looked into using a magnetic stirring hot plate to heat and stir your mixes? I think we already spoke about this Jo if my memory serves me well. There are some used hot plates on e-bay by IKA that are good. 

 

Merry Christmas to all.

 

Ruben

 

I was the one who suggested using a magnetic stirring hot plate, Ruben, but I went with the PHMB.  As it turns out the price would have been about the same...after factoring in the cost of the new commercial KitchenAid.  Though the orange power cord is so pretty, I must say.

 

Do you find that your new recipes with the shorter cooking times give better quality than the original recipes, or is it a matter of convenience?

 

[Ruben Porto]

29 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

Yes, that is the recipe I use.  Remember, you suggested I use the caramel ingredients but the 25-minute vanilla technique?

 

Ah, I see. I wasn't sure whether you ended up going with the 25 minute method for the salted caramel. Interesting that the recipe took an hour to make. How long does the reduction process take in your 9" wok? I would recommend that you keep your mix at around 72°C for at least 25 minutes, even if you reach the desired reduction weight before then. The aim of the heating process is two-fold: 1. is to concentrate the mix, thereby increasing the non-fat-milk-solids, primarily the protein, which significantly contributes to smooth texture, and 2. to promote reversible protein unfolding, which, again, significantly contributes to smooth texture. If you don't heat for at least 25 minutes, you are unlikely to get the same rate of reversible protein unfolding and I'm certain that the texture won't be as smooth and creamy.

[Ruben Porto]

40 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I was the one who suggested using a magnetic stirring hot plate, Ruben

 

Oops. I knew I had you to thank for the stirring hot plate introduction Jo.

 

The new 25 minute heating method does produce excellent texture but it is not quite as smooth as that produced by the longer heating time. I've introduced it purely to make my recipes more accessible to the home cook. I've also had to increase the fat content in the new method, which gives a slightly heavier ice cream and masks the flavour just a tad. Interesting to see that you use a higher fat content than I do. Let me know if you would like me to send through a copy of the spreadsheet I use to calculate my mixes.

[Jim D.]

4 hours ago, Ruben Porto said:

 

How long does the reduction process take in your 9" wok?

I didn't keep close track of the time, but it was in the 25-30 minute range.  I had to hold a Thermapen in the mix the whole time, and that was not an acceptable arrangement (at least for me).  The wok is about 10" in diameter.  I think that a 9" pot will be a solution for me.  As attractive as the idea of the KitchenAid unattended attachment sounds (and I haven't totally abandoned the idea), I don't think I would feel comfortable without weighing the mix from time to time.

 

Happy Boxing Day, Ruben