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Sous vide abalone

Josh71

By Josh71
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Josh71

Josh71

Posted
Posted

Anyone has done that?

 

I did once in the past, using time and temperature from David Chang Momofuku, which was 82C for 3 hours.

 

And it was still though. I didn't put anything in the bag, just abalone.

 

The abalone was not fresh, but frozen raw abalone, about 10 cm lengthwise, and it was defrosted overnight in the fridge.

 

Going to do this again soon, so I thought if anyone has done it please share your results.

 

I am thinking to do at 82C for 6 hours, and put a little bit of olive oil in the bag. 

 

Note: I searched this forum for abalone, but it seems it's not that popular ingredients. Few posted about sous-vide, but without end result reports.

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Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Still tough?

 

The 82C for 6 hours? No, I haven't done it yet.

 

I mentioned that I am going to do this again soon.

 

Once done, I will report for sure :)

rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted

where did you fine the abalone ?  an oriental store ?   

 

how thick was it ?  

 

did it come in some sort of bag, label ?

 

abalone seems to be rarer than hen's teeth.

 

did it taste 'fresh' or fishy ?

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

where did you fine the abalone ?  an oriental store ?   

 

how thick was it ?  

 

did it come in some sort of bag, label ?

 

abalone seems to be rarer than hen's teeth.

 

did it taste 'fresh' or fishy ?

 

Yes, it's from oriental store, but not in the U.S. as I live in Europe.

 

I believe it's from Australia or New Zealand. 1 kg raw, frozen, 35 euro.

 

I think it's around 2 cm thick, not big.

 

And it doesn't taste fishy at all! I seared once with butter, and it tasted really clean and nice.

 

I will make some photos later.

liuzhou

liuzhou

Posted
Posted (edited)

I can't help you with sous vide, but we get fresh abalone here and they are beaten viciously to tenderise them before cooking them.

Have your frozen ones been through that process?

Also, they take about 3 hours to braise conventionally, so I'd definitely be looking at longer at low temps.

Edited by liuzhou (log)
  • Like 1

...your dancing child with his Chinese suit.

 

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
Mark Twain
 

The Kitchen Scale Manifesto

huiray

huiray

Posted
Posted (edited)

It seems that the abalone you have is NOT dried, yes? But, rather, "fresh" but frozen?  (How fresh, do you know?)

 

Some additional stuff regarding cooking abalones – although not involving sous vide, they nevertheless convey info (I think) in addition to the previous post in this thread about the times involved in cooking abalone.

 

One web article with guidance on cooking really FRESH abalone:

http://diver.net/seahunt/abalone/abalone.htm

Note the POUNDING of the thinly-sliced pieces. Note also the commentary about if one cooks FRESH stuff beyond the very brief time recommended one gets very tough stuff. (Like squid and cuttlefish, I might comment)

 

One web article on cooking dried abalone:

https://kobikitchen.wordpress.com/category/poultry/

Note the DAYS-LONG period of cooking. (up to a week) (There are many recipes that have a similar time frame for cooking abalone)

 

I took a peek in my copy of "madame choy's cantonese recipes" (Epigram Books) and in one recipe for abalone in oyster sauce where dried abalones were used, one cleans the dried abalones then soaks them for up to two days; blanch then re-clean; then simmer for an hour, shut off the heat and let cool, and repeat several times through the day; leave in the fridge overnight; then repeat the multiple simmering process for 1-2 more days.  And this is before the abalone is actually "cooked" in the dish proper.

 

Again, these timings above do not involve sous-vide but may convey info about the nature of the beast.

 

BTW, various circles/cuisines prize dried abalone more than the fresh stuff, as the flavors and aroma intensifies (and change - for the better) when the stuff is dried correctly.  Cantonese banquets, when given by a rich host, may have a dish made with fine DRIED abalone in the progression, which would have cost QUITE a pretty penny. Here's one article on abalone at Fook Lam Moon, a premier restaurant in Hong Kong:

http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2010/10/18/the-13-million-abalone-stash/

 

High-grade dried abalone can command ASTRONOMICAL prices, in both E Asia (both China and Japan) as well as in SE Asia. Just FYI.

Edited by huiray (log)
  • Like 1
Paul Bacino

Paul Bacino

Posted
Posted

Can it be Jaccarded..to help tenderize it  a bit/ prior to SV ?

 

 

 

I do that with pork cutlets, a lot..rather than pounding them.

 

Paul

Its good to have Morels

rotuts

rotuts

Posted
Posted

the old fashioned thick, white, dinner plate from various Diners or Brasserie's work fine

 

thicker the better.  when you drop one  ....  nothing happens to it.

 

use the edge.

 

or a wine bottle.

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Here is the packaging. It is raw, frozen. And it's not dried.

 

From New Zealand, 1 kg. Probably contains 12 to 15 abalones :)

 

jKZihNX.pngzMucpFT.png

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

I can't help you with sous vide, but we get fresh abalone here and they are beaten viciously to tenderise them before cooking them.

Have your frozen ones been through that process?

Also, they take about 3 hours to braise conventionally, so I'd definitely be looking at longer at low temps.

 

I could do this experiment at longer low temp. Something like 24 hours, and then compare with the 82C for 6 hours.

 

Any suggestion for the low temp? 60C (140F)? :)

Edited by Josh71 (log)
Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

It seems that the abalone you have is NOT dried, yes? But, rather, "fresh" but frozen?  (How fresh, do you know?)

 

Some additional stuff regarding cooking abalones – although not involving sous vide, they nevertheless convey info (I think) in addition to the previous post in this thread about the times involved in cooking abalone.

 

One web article with guidance on cooking really FRESH abalone:

http://diver.net/seahunt/abalone/abalone.htm

Note the POUNDING of the thinly-sliced pieces. Note also the commentary about if one cooks FRESH stuff beyond the very brief time recommended one gets very tough stuff. (Like squid and cuttlefish, I might comment)

 

One web article on cooking dried abalone:

https://kobikitchen.wordpress.com/category/poultry/

Note the DAYS-LONG period of cooking. (up to a week) (There are many recipes that have a similar time frame for cooking abalone)

 

I took a peek in my copy of "madame choy's cantonese recipes" (Epigram Books) and in one recipe for abalone in oyster sauce where dried abalones were used, one cleans the dried abalones then soaks them for up to two days; blanch then re-clean; then simmer for an hour, shut off the heat and let cool, and repeat several times through the day; leave in the fridge overnight; then repeat the multiple simmering process for 1-2 more days.  And this is before the abalone is actually "cooked" in the dish proper.

 

Again, these timings above do not involve sous-vide but may convey info about the nature of the beast.

 

BTW, various circles/cuisines prize dried abalone more than the fresh stuff, as the flavors and aroma intensifies (and change - for the better) when the stuff is dried correctly.  Cantonese banquets, when given by a rich host, may have a dish made with fine DRIED abalone in the progression, which would have cost QUITE a pretty penny. Here's one article on abalone at Fook Lam Moon, a premier restaurant in Hong Kong:

http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2010/10/18/the-13-million-abalone-stash/

 

High-grade dried abalone can command ASTRONOMICAL prices, in both E Asia (both China and Japan) as well as in SE Asia. Just FYI.

 

You are correct, they are not dried. 

 

And I am quite familiar with that kind of slow braising chinese-style abalone dish. Although I have never tested it, because it's quite expensive in the restaurant.

 

One of the reason I bought this frozen abalone is, someday, I am going to try making braised abalone. I already did some research and keep few recipes.

 

But yeah, that can be a bit complicated and I still don't have time for that.

 

So, this is the second bag that I bought, I cooked a bag before!

 

Tried with simple searing with butter, then thinly sliced in the past. It's though, but still edible and enjoyable to eat. Although my wife complained lol. Then I tried sous vide at various temperatures, but nothing satisfactory results. However, I did sous vide in short time! The longest was 3 hours at 82C, before I used up all 1 kg.

 

Now, I have another bag to play :)

Edited by Josh71 (log)
dcarch

dcarch

Posted
Posted

Abalone meat is completely different than other meats. It has 0 fat, and it has 0 fiber, no grain structure.

 

You can buy live abalone in Chinese stores.

 

dcarch. 

daveb

daveb

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure what SV would accomplish with a protein like Abalone.  With no connective tissue to break down, why the long bath? 

 

I'm not a fan but thought tenderness was achieved by beating it like a stepchild.

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

I'm not sure what SV would accomplish with a protein like Abalone.  With no connective tissue to break down, why the long bath? 

 

I'm not a fan but thought tenderness was achieved by beating it like a stepchild.

 

Interesting.

 

Is the meat structure the same as octopus tentacle? Which we can use SV to tender it.

 

Also, the braised abalone (chinese style) is simmered for quite long time to tender, at least from what I read in some of the recipes. 

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted (edited)

Someone did 120F (48C) for 36 hours and it didn't change anything.

 

QUOTE:

 

tl;dr
In the end cooking the abalone in a sous vide at 120 deg did nothing for it. The ab was tough.

 

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633789

 

Well, I don't know if that was 36 hours, but at least he mentioned his timing plan at the beginning of the thread. 

 

Other timing: 90C for 5 hours

 

http://www.starchefs.com/cook/recipe/mark-liberman/stew-autumn-vegetables-abalone-stinging-nettles-breadcrumbs

Edited by Josh71 (log)
huiray

huiray

Posted
Posted

Someone did 120F (48C) for 36 hours and it didn't change anything.

 

QUOTE:

 

tl;dr

In the end cooking the abalone in a sous vide at 120 deg did nothing for it. The ab was tough.

 

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633789

 

Well, I don't know if that was 36 hours, but at least he mentioned his timing plan at the beginning of the thread. 

 

Other timing: 90C for 5 hours

 

http://www.starchefs.com/cook/recipe/mark-liberman/stew-autumn-vegetables-abalone-stinging-nettles-breadcrumbs

 

Heh. Note that the second link (the starchefs one) states that the abalones were POUNDED.

 

Perhaps this is another case where the old traditional method(s) simply are easier and better in the long run?

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Heh. Note that the second link (the starchefs one) states that the abalones were POUNDED.

 

Perhaps this is another case where the old traditional method(s) simply are easier and better in the long run?

 

Yes, you right there.

 

And I tend to agree. Until I taste that famous chinese-style braised abalone and experience the taste and texture of the abalone, I won't have anything to compare. I traveled quite often to Asia and reckon that dish always in the expensive price range!

dcarch

dcarch

Posted
Posted

So I decided to go to a Chinese Restaurant and I ordered Abalone.

 

I am sorry to tell you guys that it was not pounded,  and based on the taste, I don't think it was cooked for hours.

 

It was fresh tasting and incredibly tender, 

 

dcarch

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Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Well, I did SV abalone this weekend.

 

2 abalone, defrosted overnight in the fridge.

 

I put in the bag with just a little bit butter.

 

Intended to SV for 5 hours, but could not manage the timing because of sudden change of plan.

 

So, after about 4 hours at 85C, took it off and rinse in cold water (not icy water).

 

Sliced them thinly and I got kind of soft tender enjoyable abalone!

 

And my wife didn't complain. If it was tough, she would complain immediately.

 

The taste is there, but I could work it more with quick searing with butter to get kind of caramelized. Probably next time :)

 

I might try with 5 hours, but I am happy with the result :)

Josh71

Josh71

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

So I decided to go to a Chinese Restaurant and I ordered Abalone.

 

I am sorry to tell you guys that it was not pounded,  and based on the taste, I don't think it was cooked for hours.

 

It was fresh tasting and incredibly tender, 

 

dcarch

 

Nice ... :)

 

So, I assume they cook it quickly, and not braising it.

huiray

huiray

Posted
Posted

Nice ... :)

 

So, I assume they cook it quickly, and not braising it.

 

I might suspect that may have been so, and that they used fresh unfrozen abalone. (The diver.net article above I linked to talks about cooking fresh abalone really quickly to retain tenderness; so do the relevant articles - from amongst many others out there - I link to below)

 

OR, they used good quality CANNED stuff - which can taste quite fresh.

 

Some additional articles that may be of interest. Note the commentary about fresh vs dried vs canned stuff, and the variation of treatment depending on quality/source/size/etc of the abalones. Also the stuff about not boiling them; or bringing them up to temp from cold rather than dumping them into water already at temp.

http://www.hkjebn.com/en/mo/knowledge/dried-seafood

http://www.foodcanon.com/2013/02/chinese-new-year-recipes-preparing-your.html

http://www.noobcook.com/braised-mushrooms-with-abalone/

http://redcook.net/2010/02/15/braised-abalone-for-chinese-new-year/

http://hungerhunger.blogspot.com/2010/03/abalone-kai-lan.html

http://shun-gate.com/en/okurimono/japanese_dishes/okurimono_5.html

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