The Harvard Smoker : for a better Brisket

[rotuts]

Id love to see what commercially turns up :

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/business/learning-to-engineer-a-better-brisket.html?ref=business&_r=0

 

and yes there appears to be a SmartPhone App.

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Dave W]

I don't see anything groundbreaking here. Take a millennia old design, add automatic temperature control (a ubiquitous BBQ technology) and a Harvard brand. Yawn.

The creator's quote about ugly drum smokers ("trash cans with smokestacks; offensive to an engineer") belies how much he knows about BBQ: not much.

[rotuts]

perhaps.

 

however, Id really like to see the finished product.

 

and its quite true, there are some fantastic temp-controled items out there for the more Professional Q'ists

 

that's why i follow BBQ Pitmasters.   for the rigs.

 

too bad Im not a HedgeFund ZillionAir.  no stupid FiddleFaddle modern art fore me.

 

just a Whole Lot'a Rigs and a few fantastic butchers.

 

of yes   some Apps.

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Norm Matthews]

I spent quite a while typing my thoughts but then Dave W posted first and when I checked to see what he said, I found he said it much more succinctly but a little more pessimistically than I and then I accidentally did something and lost everything I'd typed.

[Dave W]

I guess it mostly seems like a solution in search of a problem. It's more of a good example for entrepreneurship than for something that's needed in the market for BBQ cookers.

[rotuts]

I do like the 'maybe' idea that it might be like those Nukular towers, a la 3 mile island.

 

never understood why they have that shape.

 

lets wait and see.

[Norm Matthews]

If it has an app, I wonder if it activates an automatic feed. It seem pretty obvious that it is PID controlled and ceramic.  It uses wood chips and charcoal.  It all seems like it is designed more for ease of operation than for outstanding results. All that has already been done and apparently done well. But that is just an old man's opinion, stuck in his old fashioned ways perhaps.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[Dave W]

If you want PID control and web feeds these features are available from a wide range of DIY or commercial products to integrate with almost any BBQ cooker.

[rotuts]

I under stand all that you have said.

 

I indeed have a Yoder pellet smoker, with digital controls

 

there are some 'teething issues' which is why I have not posted about that yet

 

then there are these :

 

http://myronmixonsmokers.com/gravity-feed/mms-v9/

 

which accept these :

 

https://www.bbqguru.com/StoreNav/GuruCookerGuide?AdviceGrillId=184&kitId=1

 

so its not that stuff,  mighty fine stuff, does not exist out there

 

its just that, well what's this going to be like ?

 

no more  no less.

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Norm Matthews]

The article covers the technical research they did on models based on the BGE.  I wonder if they looked at other types of smokers already on the market? Their price point target isn't really all that competitive unless they have come up with a significant innovation.  They seem to be aware of the technology used on other smokers.  The settled on ceramic. Is it because it has superior insulating properties over a drum barrel?  I wonder if they or anyone has ever thought about lighter and more efficient insulation like Kaowool as part of the wall?  I'd really be impressed if they had some innovation that no one else had used before.  Is the shape in itself an improvement?  I am really interested in hearing more about their design and results.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[rotuts]

""  I am really interested in hearing more about their design and results. ""

 

as am I.

 

that's why I posted the ref.

 

the Prof. and the Assistant did go down to K.C. and become certified BBQ Judges from the KCBS.

 

we know from Aaron Franklin's show that this is about 'sauce'

 

So What ?  effort has been made,  a significant one.  I can't imagine going to this kind of trouble did not involve tasting a bit of 

 

" Q "

 

looking forward to their Smoker.

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[Dave W]

In the world of domestic smokers $1200 is pretty mid range.

The weber series offers great control and results for a fraction of the price. UDS smokers are even cheaper. And large heavy steel reverse flow smokers are way more expensive.

For the market of this smoker though I'd say $300 on a WSM or similar product plus spending the remaining $900 on 18 practice briskets might produce better results in the long run.

The whole look how much work it takes to maintain other smokers line smacks of infomercial marketing to me.

This item has been promoted in online media for the last three months or so. I believe the Wired article and another one have some more detail about the design.

[rotuts]

Id like to see  the promoted on-line stuff as wired articles.

 

' might produce better results '

 

is always possible.

 

but we have not seen the final product as far as I can tell

 

so 'might' would be a good watch word here

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

OK :

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/

 

any more ref's

 

http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/08/harvard-bbq-smoker-brisket/

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

"  three students are launching a Kickstarter campaign to fund a professional prototype, and they’re starting their own company.1 "

 

any info on this ?

[dcarch]

" ------ The ceramic body is optimal for retaining and radiating heat. According to the class’s research, ceramic has lower heat-conductivity properties and higher heat capacitance than cast iron or stainless steel.----"

 

If the smoker is PID controlled and has a constant heat source, why would heat retainage, conductivity and heat capacity matter?

 

The unit needs to be less than 50 lbs so you can take it to a friend's house.

 

Surprised there is no automatic humidity control.

 

It would be nice to make the unit with tempered/heat treated clear glass.

 

dcarch 

Edited July 19, 2015 by dcarch (log)

[rotuts]

"" why would heat retainage, conductivity and heat capacity matter ""

 

fuel use

 

I do agree that humidity, i.e. controlled steam is lacking in the BBQ world

 

having studied steam in the CuisiSteamOven, it need to be considered in the BBQ world.

 

then there are these :

 

 

http://myronmixonsmokers.com/flatracks/

 

""   Our smokers use the water in the waterpan to keep your meat moist and tender  ""

 

I have no idea what the water feature here really does. my understanding of 'water pans'

 

in smokers is that they are heat sinks that stabilize temps rather than add significant humidity  i.e. steam to the smoking environment,

 

as Ive said before, a stainless-steel,  variable steam wood or pellet smoker would be nice to have

Edited July 19, 2015 by rotuts (log)

[dcarch]

"" why would heat retainage, conductivity and heat capacity matter ""

 

fuel use

 

 

Advanced insulation at 1/50 the weight.

 

For an engineering school like Harvard, I would also include a thermal electric generator* to power the fan and PID controller. They don'rt use a lot of power. This way you can go camping with the unit.

 

 

dcarch

 

* nothing new. There is a BBQ grill with that, as I remember.

Edited July 19, 2015 by dcarch (log)

[rotuts]

true

 

soooooooo :   Kickstarter ?

[Dave W]

Pitmasters hate them for this one weird trick!

[rotuts]

""  Pitmasters hate them for this one weird trick! ""

 

missing something I am, and Ive not even gotten Fizzed Up !

[Ashen]

lol..  it is  a standard tag  headline format for a lot of click farming articles.      variations .   "  three tricks  rich people don't want you to know about "      "10 shocking secrets blah blah won't tell you"   etc.

 

 

I read about this awhile back, in that article I loved the part where they   tested it with virtual briskets.  LOL   I am sure it will make a good brisket, but then again there are peope out there  with homemade filing cabinet smokers generating fantastic brisket too. 

 

"  Tested by countless computer simulations of virtual brisket smoking, nearly two dozen weekend smoking sessions — often in snow or sub-zero temperatures — and 220 pounds of meat, the smoker is a rigorous, data-driven tool for making a feast."

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/05/harvard-class-cooks-ultimate-bbq-smoker/0O4fLQ0rbt9qMGsllPoTjK/story.html

 

so basically they made 21 or 22 briskets and ran simulations and deemed theirs was better than the big green egg.    BBQ comp teams  and BBQ restaurants often do more than 20 a day , and have years of experience using their equipment.  A better test would be to go head to head with  Winning BBQ team(s) and a blind taste test with a panel of certified BBQ judges with no vested interest. 

 

 

edit.. btw 220 pounds of meat divided by 22 would be about 10 pounds average.. sounds like they weren't even using full briskets, just flats.  Sorry but no matter how intelligent they are , they seem to lack some essentinal BBQ accumen. 

Edited July 19, 2015 by Ashen (log)

[Tri2Cook]

In the world of domestic smokers $1200 is pretty mid range.

Yeah, I have a ~$300 Bradley original that's controlled by a ~$180 Auber dual probe controller. So just under $500 all in (but only just under $180 all in for me, the smoker was a Christmas gift). I wouldn't want it for large scale production (not enough capacity) or if I was using it every day (the pucks would get costly) but for what I do, it's been almost perfect. I'm seriously considering doing the second heating element mod, that would eliminate the only thing that makes it slightly below perfect (for me), the relatively slow temp recovery time after loading it.

 

[haresfur]

I do like the 'maybe' idea that it might be like those Nukular towers, a la 3 mile island.

 

never understood why they have that shape.

 

lets wait and see.

 

Power plant cooling towers (not just nukes) have that shape because they maximize advective cooling. Not sure that's what you want in a smoker. And since they use blowers for air-flow, I don't think the shape's ability to generate passive flow would be useful, but what do I know, I didn't take the course.

 

The article covers the technical research they did on models based on the BGE.  I wonder if they looked at other types of smokers already on the market? Their price point target isn't really all that competitive unless they have come up with a significant innovation.  They seem to be aware of the technology used on other smokers.  The settled on ceramic. Is it because it has superior insulating properties over a drum barrel?  I wonder if they or anyone has ever thought about lighter and more efficient insulation like Kaowool as part of the wall?  I'd really be impressed if they had some innovation that no one else had used before.  Is the shape in itself an improvement?  I am really interested in hearing more about their design and results.

 

Yeah,  I wonder about ceramic fiber, too. The only downside I see is fragility. There are also some amazing ceramic coatings that could be looked at. 

 

 

 

Several students spent their spring break taking a crash course in ceramics at the Harvard Ceramic Studio to build two prototypes of the smoker.

 

They probably would have been better off going up to Alfred University, which has superb ceramic arts and ceramic science departments. Maybe they could have learned something about kiln design. Hint for anyone wanting to go into this business look at a downdraft design. Perhaps a miniature Minnesota Flat-Top. 

 

That being said, I think the real innovation is in the oxygen control - that could be a real break-through at least in terms of efficiency and ease. I don't know enough about the taste aspects to comment.

[Norm Matthews]

Power plant cooling towers (not just nukes) have that shape because they maximize advective cooling. Not sure that's what you want in a smoker. And since they use blowers for air-flow, I don't think the shape's ability to generate passive flow would be useful, but what do I know, I didn't take the course.

 

 

Yeah,  I wonder about ceramic fiber, too. The only downside I see is fragility. There are also some amazing ceramic coatings that could be looked at. 

 

 

They probably would have been better off going up to Alfred University, which has superb ceramic arts and ceramic science departments. Maybe they could have learned something about kiln design. Hint for anyone wanting to go into this business look at a downdraft design. Perhaps a miniature Minnesota Flat-Top. 

 

That being said, I think the real innovation is in the oxygen control - that could be a real break-through at least in terms of efficiency and ease. I don't know enough about the taste aspects to comment.

 

  I think the fans are for heat control rather than circulation.  The shape of the Harvard is a venturi which will increase any natural draft.

 

I was thinking about ceramic fiber being used inside a more durable coating.  Alfred is top notch in the ceramics field.

 

As for kiln designs, I think horizontal smokers, whether the designers realized it or not, have a functional draw a lot like 5th century to present day China, Korean and Japanese anagama kilns.  That principle is so old because it works well. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)